Schools to study music and math

College Majors Music Major
1

We’ve been searching the web and combing this forum and have found a lot of good info, but some is several years old, so I thought I’d post our situation…

My daughter loves music and math, and has for a long time. She has a 4.0, is taking many IB classes, including all the math and science classes offered. She has a perfect math SAT score and 1480 overall, and she just recieved her Math/Physics SAT Subject test scores yesterday with 800 again on the math and 770 on the physics.

On the music side she is the concert master of her youth symphony, and has made it to the State Solo and Ensamble event every year for solos in violin and cello, and several large and small ensembles, earning honor board on most of those performances.

She is strongly considering Rice, Northwestern and Johns Hopkins. Some of our research makes it sound like Rice may make it hard to study music performance and math. Northwestern and Johns Hopkins seem more agreeable to double degrees.

I’ve also read about Yale’s music BA/MM 5-year program for incoming freshmen, and that seems like it could be a good fit, but we’re not sure how much math she’d be able to take.

I’ve read a lot about Oberlin’s double degree program that sounds good, but my daughter isn’t convinced that the math program is what she’s looking for.

Personally, I’d love it if she could stay on the west coast, but it seems like UCLA which is strong in both, would make it tough to study both, Stanford’s math is strong, but music not so much (though they are both under Arts and Sciences, which makes it easy) and we haven’t been able to figure out if USC would be able to work.

We live in Washington, and UW is a great school, but music isn’t as strong as their math, though they offer many math degrees… and she’d be sooo close.

We’d love to get more information on any of these, or ideas on something new.

2

As a basis for suggestions, what’s the highest level of math your daughter will have studied prior to college?

3

I encourage you to look into the joint program between Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Institute of Music. Might be just what your daughter is looking for. Case Western has a heavy emphasis on math and science and CIM (and the Cleveland Orchestra) is right next door. BA/BS students at Case can take performance and music theory classes at CIM. BM students at CIM take music history and other liberal arts classes at Case. And they have a dual degree or double degree program, although when we visited recently the CIM discouraged the dual degree because of the rigorous demands of their professional music degree. Admission and financial aid offices work together—their websites are very helpful detailing their programs. We visited both recently and both really are top notch IMO.

4

Is your daughter’s instrument violin or cello? I’m confused since you indicate solo performances in both. Both instruments are highly competitive for conservatory and “elite” school entrance including those you named - Northwestern, Rice, Oberlin. Youth orchestra concert master and state solo/ensemble awards does not always indicate the level of playing that would be expected for admittance to top music schools. Obviously, I can’t know your daughter’s playing, just mentioning this. Has her teacher placed students at top conservatories in the past? If so, I’m sure you will get good advice musically.

5

Has she considered Harvard’s double degree program with NEC (BA/MM) or Tuft’s with NEC (BA?BM)? Bard might be another choice: conservatory students are required to do a double degree. It is also possible to study math in the college and participate intensely in music.

Have you or has she read the Double Degree Dilemma posted nearer the top of this music forum? It can be really helpul in clarifying a path. It is about all the different options for music study.

A student like this could do very well attending a top school for math (BS) and continuing private lessons (on campus or off), and performing on an extracurricular basis. Harvard, for instance, has the Brattle Street Players, and other ensembles in addition to orchestra. Harvard now gives credit for lessons and some performance. This scenario would be an alternative to the double degree.

MIT is a possibility too. Tufts has a great music department.

I don’t know that much about the West Coast but the same principles apply.

One thing to be aware of is that attendance at a school with a conservatory or school of music on campus can mean the best opportunities go to the BM students. This is not always true, but it bears checking out, if she decides to focus on math and do private lessons/EC performance.

Not sure why your assessment is that Oberlin’s math is lacking, but I don’t know much about that either!

USC doesn’t come up much for double degrees. Nor does Rice. Hopkins has Peabody: check out the logistics like transportation. Lawrence is often mentioned.

As I remember UCLA’s music school does not offer a BM but a BA so that might leave more room for a double major.

A student like this might want a school without gen eds to make a double major, rather than a double degree, possible. Brown, Amherst come to mind. I think this might really be a good way to go and sorry I mentioned it last!

options: major in math, minor in music; major in music, minor in math; major in math and do music w/lessons and EC’s; double major, double degree. It’s okay to apply to several options and decide n April of senior year.

Good luck!

6

Your daughter might want to keep this simple by looking into colleges at which built-in curricular flexibility allows for and encourages pursuits in more than one field. Among highly selective schools, Brown (offers multiple math tracks and strong in music), Hamilton (strong in math, graduated a Pulitzer winning composer), Grinnell (strong in math, uncertain about music) and Amherst/Smith (excellent schools with consortium options) would be several to consider.

7

If your daughter is looking for double degree, as opposed to the other options outlined above and in the Double Degree Dilemma post, my daughter did not find Rice very open to the idea. In addition to Northwestern, JHU/Peabody, Case/CIM and others mentioned above, U Michigan is very supportive of dual degree (disclaimer: that’s where my D ended up!). CMU also has some interesting programs for combining degrees.

8

Is your D currently a junior?

9

Williams is often mentioned for math, and it has a strong music department. MIT would be terrific - lots of great musicians there and lively music department. For a double degree, I would look at Lawrence for sure - I hear lots of great things about their physics department. I agree that it’s not necessary for her to get a BM in music to participate in it at a high level. As for the new Yale BA/MM they specifically state one needn’t major in music as an undergrad.

10

Merc1 had the same idea I did but wrote a much more succinct post :slight_smile: A double major in a curriculum flexible school.
Summing up possibilities…

double degree (or not): Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence, Harvard, Yale, Tufts, Ithaca, Northwestern, Hopkins, Case, Michigan, Rochester, Carnegie Mellon (?)

flexible curriculum Amherst, Brown, Williams, Smith, Grinnell, Hamilton…others?

others: Vassar, MIT, Brandeis , Barnard?

West Coast??? USC, UCLA, Stanford…what about Pomona? Don’t know much about that part of the country.

11

First off, thank you for pointing out the Double Degree Dilemma essay, I think that will help a lot in choosing a direction.

To answer a couple questions that were asked: she will complete Math HL 5-6, which is essentially Calc 2; also, her primary instrument is Violin, but she started playing Cello 2 years ago and really excelled, earning honor board at state just 8 months after starting lessons.

It’s harder for me (non musician) to measure her musical ability than her math ability. As pointed out Solo & Ensamble and Concert Master if a Youth Symphony don’t fully describe musical ability without context. Her current violin instructor is the head of the music department at a university here and he felt that Peabody would be attainable and Northwestern might be a bit of a reach school. He’s not a big fan of chasing another degree, but he doesn’t really understand how good she is at math and science… kind of like how her math teachers don’t understand how musical she is.

Also this is her senior year, so even though we’ve been discussing this since last year, we didn’t really understand all the options.

I do feel that she could benefit from the experience of both a strong math program and a conservatory level music program… I honestly don’t think she feels that she has been challenged in music or math in her education experience thus far, and, if anything it should lead to a direction.

We are looking further into several of the programs mentioned in the posts. Thank you.

12

U of Southern Calif has great math [Dornsife College of Liberal Arts] AND music programs [ Thorton School of Music], and encourages students to double major or major / minor in diverse subjects with its Renaissance Scholars program.
It CAN be difficult to fit music classes into a STEM major schedule, because of the required labs that often conflict with required /scheduled music classes. Something for her to consider.

13

Stanford Music program is NOT considered top notch … and Pomona’s music offerings are meager.

14

Is your D aware that many music programs require a pre-screen, generally due by Dec. 1, before she can be invited to a live audition? Hopefully, she is preparing this now with her teacher. There are a stunning number of very impressive violinists out there auditioning, the prescreen results may help focus her direction more fully. Best of luck to you both - it can be an exciting, but also stressful season!

15

Hi…I have one son who is a mathematician and another who is a musician. After this year they will both be out of grad school. My son who is a mathematician is completing his doctoral degree.

After attending Berklee’s 5 week my mathematician son decided he did not want to go the conservatory route and instead went to a small liberal arts college where he took private guitar lessons. I believe (although I am not sure as I do not pay for them) he has also taken private lessons as a grad student. He is at a large state school for his PHD that conveniently has a well known Jazz guitarist on the faculty.

So one thing your daughter should be asking herself is WHY? WHAT? HOW? Why does she want to study math and music? Is she interested in combining them both? Mcgill has a program where students study neurology, computer science and music. Tufts and MIT have people working on CS/Math/Neurology music intersections. Is she interested in getting a PhD in Mathematics and doing research? Is she interested in playing music professionally or using music to destress? What does she see herself doing after college? HOW? How can she land not just at a school that will nurture her talents but also allow her to grow and push herself and explore who she is. Because at the end of the day getting good math SAT scores is a poor predictor of her ability to excel at graduate level mathematical work. So what is most important is for her to land somewhere where she is comfortable, socially happy, can form strong bonds with faculty and her peers.

Studying one does not and should not rule out the other. My father, a physicist, had a grad student who went on and worked in industry for years. 35 years after being a physics grad student he has written a musical that is being performed in New York at a prominent off-broadway theater. We used to live in Seattle. We have a friend (a Microsoft computer scientist/mathematician) who started playing around with music compression and computer composition stuff. He now works/teaches at UW. And there are trained musicians who then go on and become Astrophysicists.

I think we do a kids a disservice when we expect them to excel at EVERYTHING all at once or we make it seem like college is an all or nothing thing and if you do not pursue something in college you will never be able to pursue it later in life. Life is long…and a motivated student who is NOT BURNT OUT BY THE TIME THEY ARE 25 will go on and continue to grow and create and learn.

16

StacJip always writes the wisest posts :slight_smile:

I have one in a doctoral program for music and there are peer students who majored in science as an undergrad. So yes, over time and for the long term, life is flexible, it zigs and zags, and options continue over the long term .

This does sound like a kid who might benefit from applying to a few conservatories and also a few colleges/universities and deciding later. Focus on math would allow for private music study and EC performance, but I suppose conservatory music study would make full STEM study hard, unless double degree. So logically it would seem that unless a double degree is the choice, then math would be a good path since music can be done outside the classroom. But that’s just my take and there are many ways to do it.

Good luck! It’s a good problem to have, deciding between talents!

17

From the descriptions, my impression is that the OP’s daughter is likely more talented in math than music while equally loving both. I’d throw Princeton into the mix of other schools already mentioned. Princeton has traditionally been top math school, and it offers a dual degree program with the Royal College of Music in London. It also offers music performance certificate program as an alternative.

My son, too, was interested in a dual degree or double major program as a violinist when we were considering various colleges and conservatories this past year. Given his greater leaning towards pursuing a pre-med track while still pursuing music, Princeton’s music programs offer him the kind of flexibility that he needs. Many students at Princeton take the opportunity to study at the RCM for a semester in junior year as either a study abroad experience or to seriously consider music as a career. If serious, the student can take the end of semester grad school entrance exam while at RCM, and if successful, return to Princeton to finish the senior year and head back to RCM for an MM degree after graduation. Most students who had taken the opportunity to study music at RCM during their junior year return to Princeton and continue on with their career path unrelated to music. Some of these students then take the performance certificate route if it’d serve whatever their chosen career path.

My son is currently taking a gap year, so he hasn’t started at Princeton. My guess is that, like many who began their interest in pursuing a double degree or double major, he’ll start to see a clearer path by his junior year. My recommendation for those, like OP, whose children are considering a dual interest, is to look for flexible programs AND be flexible.