Schools where people can have fun without drinking?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I know drinking is really big in college. I was however wondering what top schools I should look at where people know how to socialize without drinking. Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with drinking and would probably hate a sober school, but I'm not looking to go to a school full of kids who were really sheltered in high school and think that getting drunk every weekend is what being social is really like.</p>

<p>My group of friends in high school right now is amazing, we don't go out and drink too often, and we always manage to have a good time no matter what we do. Drinking has never been a way of socializing for me and I think its sad when people lack the abilities to have fun or make friends without getting drunk.</p>

<p>I'm sure any school I go to will have lots of drinking, but if anyone knows some good schools I should look at please let me know</p>

2

<p>There is quite a bit of drinking at most top schools, but they vary very, very considerably, so don't let anyone tell that they are all the same. They aren't, and at heavy binge drinking schools, it is much easier for a moderate drinker or non-drinker to feel left out.</p>

<p>Generally speaking, you will find more binge drinking at schools that: are residential; rural; coed; have high percentages of athletes; are heavy into spectator sports (especially football and ice hockey); are not church-affiliated; have high percentages of high-income students (those who are paying full-freight); have high percentages of white students; and have fraternities. Each school will vary of course, but these are the high correlation items - if you see a school meeting most or all of these characteristics, you can be pretty sure there is a lot of binge drinking. Drinking rates tend to be highest in the northeast and midwest.</p>

<p>At most of these schools, total abstainers make up around 25% of the student population (give or take 5%). But what happens among the other 75% sets the culture of the school. At the average American college/university, 43% of students binge drank in the past two weeks (usually more than once, and averaging, at a minimum, roughly 8 alcoholic drinks in an episode); 32% drank moderately; 25% abstainers. But if you went to a school with 50-55% binge drinking (on the face of it, just 7-12% more), it would mean that moderate drinkers would fall to less than 25% of the student body. You would definitely feel the difference in the culture. Similarly, if only 30% were binge drinkers, it would mean that 45% were moderate drinkers, and, again, you'd feel the difference in the culture.</p>

<p>Most schools do not publish their binge drinking rates, for obvious reasons. Some schools with lower than average rates include all the women's colleges, Swarthmore, Reed, Earlham, St. Olaf, and Brown. (They will have substantial drinking, just not on the scale of the others.)</p>

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<p>great post mini... where can i find drinking rates ??</p>

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<p>You can't. Or not easily. The data sharing/survey agreement with the Harvard School of Public Health specifies that they can't reveal the rate at particular schools. Sometimes, however, the rates are revealed in the school paper, or by the administration at particular schools (at Williams, for example, the binge drinking rate was 52% in the past two weeks when the survey was taken.) But every school has an "alcohol/drug" coordinator, often a dean, and if you write them, they will often give you the information.</p>

<p>If you follow the associations above, you can usually predict what the rates will be pretty accurately - with the exception of Hobart and William Smith which has had a very emphasis on the reduction of binge drinking, I can't think of a single school, at least among the better ones, that defies the pattern.</p>

<p>Recent experimental data suggests that the numbers cited in these surveys is likely overly conservative. One study found that drinkers tend to underestimate their drinking by one drink per episode in the surveys. And, when asked to pour a drink of hard liquor, the average student pours one which is 1.75x the standard drink. In other words, a 4-drink drinker, who would have been classified as a non-binge drinker, likely had 5, and if it was hard liquor, 8.75 drinks. The other thing that the surveys underestimate is the incidence of binge drinking - they ask whether you have had 5 or more drinks in an episode once in the past two weeks, but they don't ask for how many episodes. The few on-campus studies that have been done indicate it is rather rare for a binge drinker to do so only once in a two-week period.</p>

<p>None of this affects you of course if you are abstainer, except that campus culture is heavily affected by it - whether you are a heavy drinker, moderate drinker, or abstainer.</p>

<p>So we've really got to check it out for yourself. Yes, you will find some heavy drinking at virtually all schools. But don't fall for the canard that they are all the same. That is very far from the truth. There are lots of good schools where moderate drinking plus abstinence is the norm, and others where binge drinking is, and they fall along the patterns listed above.</p>

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<p>There are absolutely no schools like that...wait.....Bob Jones University, maybe.</p>

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<p>fun without drinking?!?!?!</p>

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<p>Skier,I agree that there are varying degrees of alcohol use at different colleges; however, if you are looking at what are generally thought to be “top colleges” either by academic rigor or selectivity I can’t think of ANY that you should cross off your list solely because you are worried that a culture of too much drinking will negatively color your experience. </p>

<p>The term binge drinking is itself controversial and emotionally laden. Everyone (I hope) agrees that substance use that is physically and emotionally harmful or socially disruptive is not a good thing; however, the definition of how much is too much is more personal than universal. </p>

<p>[The criteria used for the Williams data that Mini refers to was 5 drinks on one occasion (e.g., Friday night) which may equate to a binge to some or just social drinking to others. The study did not use the word “binge’]</p>

<p>I don’t know what colleges you are considering, but I would guess especially if they are private schools you will find a reasonable cohort of kids who drink moderately and that this behavior would be considered perfectly normal and acceptable. At most private colleges today, you will also find an emphasis on health and well being that precludes a lot of the stereotyped images of substance abuse. This is even true of athletes who are just as often abstainers as abusers! </p>

<p>I mention private versus public as I think that large universities have a greater range of personalities and it’s difficult to generalize. I don’t mean to imply that all kids who attend State U are substance abusers. All colleges – large, small, rural, urban, conservative, liberal – offer plenty of alternatives to drinking (or drugging) and you’ll find plenty of kids who are abstainers or at least moderate users. You won’t be ostracized or excluded because of your choice.</p>

<p>Only you can determine your comfort level at an individual college – whether it is in response to substance use, studying, weather, location or any other characteristic. Overnight at your choices, talk to current students who share your values and interests, judge for yourself whether you’d fit with the school’s culture and like the ambience.</p>

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<p>From reading various MIT student blogs, it seems as if they have very "unique" parties that do not include alcohol :)</p>

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<p>I think unless you go to a protestant/Christian school there will be a lot of drinking. but i think you can always find a group that has your own interests. and drinks less. Join clubs, theater groups, non mainstream sports and find a group youre comfortable with. Even at the big drinking universities there are so many students i can't believe yu couldnt find a group of friends that didnt drink. dont make judgements based on the headlines.</p>

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<p>My group of friends in high school right now is amazing, we don't go out and drink too often, and we always manage to have a good time no matter what we do. Drinking has never been a way of socializing for me and I think its sad when people lack the abilities to have fun or make friends without getting drunk
I may be underestimating you but I hear you patting yourself on the back for not drinking too often in high shcool.
Hello?
Isnt drinking * illegal* for those of high school age, and it will be for several years after high school graduation?
If you can't manage to refrain from drinking at all when it is illegal, what makes you think that in a situation where many of the students will be 21 and alcohol will be much more accessible, that you are not going to be one of those students of which this sentiment can be spoken * Drinking has never been a way of socializing for me and I think its sad when people lack the abilities to have fun or make friends without getting drunk.*</p>

<p>Of course there is going to be substance use in college- there is a great deal of substance use in society, and while there are schools which are more influenced by heavy drinking- I have seen students who are total abstainers do very well at schools where off campus parties are an ingrained part of the culture.</p>

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<p>I would imagine that any urban school, with tons of stuff to do other than party, would have a good amount of non-drinkers on any night</p>

<p>that's personally one of the reasons why I'm looking at mainly urban schools... I'm not really into the drinking every night thing, and I want my options to be large</p>

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<p>"[The criteria used for the Williams data that Mini refers to was 5 drinks on one occasion (e.g., Friday night) which may equate to a binge to some or just social drinking to others. The study did not use the word “binge’]"</p>

<p>The term "binge" comes from the federal Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. Remember than on average, the student who said s/he had 5, actually had 6, and, if it was hard liquor, each was 1.75 standard drinks. In other words, the average Williams student who reported 5 alcoholic drinks actually had 10.5 in a single episode, at least once in the past two weeks (and it is rare for the student to do it only once.)</p>

<p>Anyhow, they are planning to release extensive data soon:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.williamsrecord.com/wr/?section=news&view=article&id=7212%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.williamsrecord.com/wr/?section=news&view=article&id=7212&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I imagine for some folks, 10.5 alcoholic drinks on an occasion is just social - in fact, in my professional work in the substance abuse field - I see them all the time.</p>

<p>But the OP's interests are in comparison, not in terminology.</p>

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<p>I agree with comments about urban schools - when you are in a city there is SO much else to do that your social life will never revolve around drinking. Sure, it will be there if you want it, but if you don't there are going to be a LOT of alternatives.</p>

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<p>I also agree
the schools whether they are huge universities or tiny colleges- that are larger than the surrounding towns- seem to have out of classroom time revolve around drinking/Greeks/football much more than the schools that are located in a city.
Not all of them- and even when "everybody" gets blotto, it isn't really "everybody"- it is just that when a huge crowd of people runs riot and turns over cars, it can seem like it was a larger number.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Not all of them- and even when "everybody" gets blotto, it isn't really "everybody"- it is just that when a huge crowd of people runs riot and turns over cars, it can seem like it was a larger number.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Which is why the argument, "don't worry, even if there is a lot of drinking, you'll be able to find stuff to do..." doesn't hold much water.</p>

<p>The problem with heavy drinking on campus is that the behavior of the drinkers is so disruptive that it can make the lives of non-drinkers and moderate-drinkers miserable -- whether it's puking in the dorm or throwing a table on your head from a balcony. The higher the binge-drinking rate, the more likely the disruption.</p>

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<p>Mini, Stanford says it has a 27% rate of binge drinking over a two week period amongst its undergraduates. Relatively speaking, that seems like a lower rate. I'm wondering how it compares to the rate at Swarthmore and Brown that you identified as lower than average. </p>

<p>How would you guess these colleges rank, from lower to higher degrees of alcohol binging?</p>

<p>Swarthmore, Stanford, Brown, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Amherst, Williams?</p>

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<p>I agree it can be very disruptive- and that is why we didn't look at schools with frats- with football teams or in rural locations.
But I also wanted prospective students to keep in mind- that an incident that happened 5 years ago, may have expanded to become part of campus myth and give it a reputation that it doesn't necesarily deserve or it accurate.
I have heard high school students- comment that this school is a "party school" and that school "is 3rd tier" without any updated information other than "thats what everyone else says"</p>

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<p>"Remember than on average, the student who said s/he had 5, actually had 6, and, if it was hard liquor, each was 1.75 standard drinks. In other words, the average Williams student who reported 5 alcoholic drinks actually had 10.5 in a single episode, at least once in the past two weeks (and it is rare for the student to do it only once.)"</p>

<p>This is what drives me nuts about these conversations. The report reads 5 drinks on one occasion. Without any proof or personal on site experience we are told that this really means 10.5 drinks frequenty. Not "might have had" or "could have had" but "actually had." This is simply a false assumption and distortion of statistics.</p>

<p>If anyone would like more information regarding drinking at Williams from the parent of a junior please pm me. There are plenty of good reasons not to choose Williams. Excessive drinking isn't one of them.</p>

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<p>An important compenent to this discussion is what is the tolerance level on campus for anyone who does not do the mainstream thing? </p>

<p>It is agreed that at even relatively low drinking schools, drinking is still a mainstream social activity in college. The rate of drinking can be equal at two schools but one could be much more tolerant and inclusive of non-drinkers than the other. </p>

<p>I suggest you look at where minority and gay students find acceptance as a signal of the general "tolerance level" at a school. Because non-drinking IS an "alternative lifestyle" in a college setting. Schools that have an accepting, "to each his own" culture will tend not to marginalize non-mainstream kids, whether because of sexuality, abstinence, religion, race, whatever. </p>

<p>This is why, I think, Brown is a place friendly to non-drinkers. I went to Brown when the drinking age was 18. When I graduated it had switched to 21. There were parties galore the whole time, all of which served alcohol, but there was no social penalty to coming sober, dancing, and leaving sober. Nobody paid attention or cared.</p>

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<p>27% is plausible for Stanford. First, it's West Coast which has lower drinking rates than East Coast. Second, Stanford has an incredibly high minority enrollment -- 11% Af-Am and 24% Asian-American. Both groups tend to binge drink at a fraction of the rate of white students.</p>

<p>You do have to be a little careful. The Harvard study that Mini refers to uses the "5/4" measure -- five drinks for men, four for women. Many colleges use a different survey "5/5" that produces slightly lower numbers.</p>

<p>Of the colleges you list, Stanford and Swarthmore would be at the low-end, well below national averages. Williams and Amherst at the high end, well above national averages. Both have had significant problems, including alarming numbers of alcohol poisoning hospitalizations, etc.</p>

<p>I would guess that Harvard is lower than Yale and Princeton (large minority enrollment, especially Asian-American, urban campus). But, those three schools would be tough to predict, IMO, because they have segments of the student body that are prime binge demographics and segments that are distinctly not.</p>