<p>I did a search about this but the information was so fragmented over 100s of posts so here goes...</p>
<p>Could we start a list of the schools who have a cut policy and BRIEFLY explain? For example:
Loveto Sing University - cuts after sophomore year</p>
<p>Anymore I believe it is not just audition/non-audition that is important to know, cut policy or not is important too.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone!</p>
<p>University of Arizona - cuts after freshman and sophomore years.</p>
<p>CCM has one, although I don't know the specifics.</p>
<p>I'm probably a little defensive here because my son is at Arizona. But I wanted to say that my wife has a doctorate in Piano, and she says that she thinks most fine arts programs have cut policies of some sorts. They may not cut you from the university, but they will say you need to find another major, or a BA instead of a BFA, for example. Maybe some MT programs say you need to switch to Acting or Vocal Performance, I really don't know. My older son is a cello major and there are people at his university who were told they can not earn a Bachelor's of Music in Cello, they will need to get a BFA. I also would be interested, though, if other major MT programs say you can not continue with their MT program.</p>
<p>Here's a link to the information included in the FAQ about cut policies:</p>
<p>and one to a recent discussion on this issue:</p>
<p>There have been many such discussions over the past couple of years but I'm afraid I don't have the time to search for older ones tonight. I will say, though, Cato, that most MT and theatre programs do NOT have cut policies.</p>
<p>"I will say, though, Cato, that most MT and theatre programs do NOT have cut policies."</p>
<p>Really? I remember almost every school I auditioned at in 1999 had a cut policy of some kind - they didn't always call it a cut policy, though. They might say that every student had to pass an evaluation to continue in the program, but the bottom line is, if you didn't do as well as they thought you should, you would be cut.</p>
<p>U of Arizona told me when I auditioned that they had no cut policy; they merely held "auditions" to continue in the program at the end of the freshman and sophomore years. But it is still a cut policy, and like any college program, there are politics involved.</p>
<p>Cato - don't feel defensive. U of Arizona does have a good acting-based MT program, much like the Otterbein program, from what I've researched. The politics and the cut policy aren't much different from any other MT program. No program is for everyone though, and Arizona just wasn't for me.</p>
<p>Samia, not every school has a cut policy, or even does not let you continue in the program as you put it (unless failing by university standards or some such). To name a few, NYU/Tisch, UMichigan, Penn State, CMU, nor Syracuse have one. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I don't know how others view this, but I think the question raised here really refers to those schools that clearly say, up front, that it is NOT their intention to graduate every student they admit. The two clearest examples of this that I know of are CCM (for MT) and DePaul (for Acting) but there may be others. Both are VERY clear about the number of students they expect to graduate and then applicants, knowing this policy as a condition of admission, have a choice to go there or not. Given that these schools ARE so clear about their intentions and that incoming students accept these conditions, my only problem with this kind of policy is when the cut decision is made so late in the school year that seeking out a Plan B for the year immediately following is all but impossible. That I believe is neither kind nor fair.</p>
<p>While there are several programs that require that a student "pass" an evaluation in order to continue on in a pre-professional program (as opposed to being moved into a less intense BA program), I think that many other programs evaluate student progress as a way of helping students learn what areas the faculty believes need attention. They are called different things by different programs e.g., juries, reviews, evaluations, etc. Sometimes these evaluations lead to probationary status of some kind, but I believe that more often than not they are a way of benchmarking progress and are to the student's benefit. I believe every program has the right to evaluate its students so long as students are given a fair opportunity to meet the standards imposed. If the student demonstrates continued inability to meet the standard or demonstrates a consistently poor work ethic, the school has the right to suggest that the student reevaluate the appropriateness of his or her continuing in the program. Yes, these are schools, but these programs are PRE-PROFESSIONAL and as such should set high standards. If students can't meet the standards in a academic environment, their chances of succeeding in the REAL professional world have to come into question.</p>
<p>I'm guessing that Samia may question some of the things I've writtten, but it seems to me that her situation at U 0f A may not have been so clear cut or justified. Unfortunately, mistakes or unfair decisions are made; but as Samia's case also demonstrates, if a student has both talent and determination, there isn't a "cut system" in the world that will keep them from pursuing their dreams.</p>
<p>Thanks, Theatermom, well put. Arizona has made a few bad decisions (in my opinion) as far as who they've cut from both their BFA Acting and MT programs. One of the most talented actors I've ever met was cut from Acting, and is now regularly appearing in feature films in LA, and is contracted to play a principal role in the sequel to "Event Horizon," which starts shooting in March. They cut him because they thought he didn't adapt well to classical acting styles, and they consider themselves a classical acting program. But he was REALLY talented, and they cut him after sophomore year, meaning he'd only taken ONE stylistic acting class, and that was Chekhov. The fact that he's making an actual living off of acting in LA is proof of his talent and good work ethic, so why cut him from an Acting program? On the flip side, sometimes they retain students who clearly are not responding to the training for physical reasons. For example, if a student fits an unusual type (like really big jolly character type or waifish ingenue type) they might be kept in the program even if they are a little less talented than the faculty would like. I saw a very clear example of that the last year I was there, but I won't go into it in detail. I just don't understand how, with such an accomplished, brilliant faculty, these kinds of things can happen. Shouldn't overall talent be the deciding factor?</p>
<p>Cato - I really really don't mean to offend. I have to restate that a lot of my friends had a wonderful time at Arizona and greatly value the training they received there. I doubt that it's much different from other MT programs - some people do great, others run into trouble. I just happen to have inside information about U of A, and in my case, it's not very positive. But don't feel like you need to defend your son's choice, because in general it's as good a program as you can find outside of the MT "Ivies." In fact, I'm very glad to have the two years of training at U of A backing me up for my upcoming transfer auditions. So please, please don't take offense to anything I'm saying. I just want people to know what my experience was, since people are asking for exactly this kind of inside info that you can't find out without experiencing it for yourself.</p>
<p>Soozievt - I know a girl who was cut from CAP21 at the end of her junior year and was never given a reason despite many verbal and written requests on her part. She told me that she knew a lot of people who were cut from NYU's MT program (CAP21 specifically.) Maybe they've changed their policy since then, but that was in 2000 or 2001. I don't have any information about the other schools you mentioned, though. All I know is that Arizona definitely misled me about their policy at my audition. My parents and I were shocked to find out that they had a cut policy at all.</p>
<p>Thanks alwaysamom,
I go to the FAQ page so often it should be my homepage but somehow I missed that great summary by Dr. John. </p>
<p>That being said, I still would like us to have a concise list, all in one place, of which schools do and which don't and what it is.</p>
<p>So far this is what we have on this thread:
CCM - ???
DePaul - after soph?
NYU - Cap21??? [there seems to be debate on this]
U of AZ - after Fr & Soph yrs</p>
<p>Please everyone, add to this if you know for a fact that a school has a cut policy or jury situation and what it is.</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>There's no cut policy at Tisch. Whether there was one in 2000, I don't know but it doesn't sound possible, given the description by Samia. I don't know how someone could be cut in their junior year because with the studio set-up, they'd be finished their primary studio program by then anyway. I know that in the information sessions we attended before my D applied and then the one we attended the day she auditioned, this question always came up. Arthur Bartow who is the artistic director of the program categorically stated that there was no cut policy. He and the department do not believe in doing this to students who have been accepted into a training and educational program. When asked if anyone had ever been asked to leave the drama program, he said that they only individual he was aware of was a girl who had an eating disorder and that was at the request of her family and doctors. </p>
<p>Certainly if someone is not attending classes or not doing their work in studio or are having academic difficulties, then I could see a problem arising. However, basing a decision on how they are performing artistically, and then asking them to leave, does not happen at Tisch. As was stated previously by theatermom, a cut policy is one where a school has a plan all along not to graduate the number of students they accept into the program. There are definitely schools out there who do this and who do not make any secret of it. These are the ones which should be included on the list. Most programs do not do this.</p>
<p>Believersmom,</p>
<p>You can remove the ???? from after CCM. They announced during my daughter's audition day that they would look to accept a class of 22-24 but would definitely graduate no more than 14-15. I understand that in the past year or two they have not met their target for accepted students, i.e. the beginning class size is smaller than 22-24 (as few as 17 one of those two years I believe) but whether that was by choice (meaning that THEY didn't feel that enough auditioning students met their standards so that after their "melt" they were left with fewer students than they normally have start the program) or by higher than normal "melt" (meaning that more than the usual number of students who were accepted to CCM chose to attend a different program) I don't know.</p>
<p>DePaul used to have cuts after both freshman and sophomore year but apparently has changed that to just after freshman year as ckp has shared. I believe they start with a number in the low 50's and graduate a little less than half that number. A good high school firend of my D's has survived the cuts, is a senior acting major there now and I know there were many nervous times in her tenure at DePaul. She has said she has worked harder there than at any other time in her life but feels she has gotten excellent training.</p>
<p>But choosing to go to such programs as these does have to feel more or less like a crap shoot at times........but congrats to those who go and survive. What's the old expression? "That which doesn't kill you can only make you stronger."</p>
<p>The question marks in CCM's case were for when or how the program is done, after Freshman? Sophomore?</p>
<p>So here is what we have now:
CCM - when???
DePaul - after Fr yr
U of AZ - after Fr & Soph yrs</p>
<p>I'm not a CCM parent so this is not hard info, but from what I have read and been told by my D (who now has several friends in the program), it can come as early as six months into the program - as shared on this forum a year and a half or so ago by a brave CCM student poster with the screen name "Idontknow" - or up until the third year, I believe. But honestly, if there are CCM parents or students posting or lurking here, they would be a more authoritative source.</p>
<p>CCM - six months up to after sophomore year
DePaul - after Fr yr
U of AZ - after Fr & Soph yrs</p>
<p>When I visited Syracuse in July, I'm pretty sure they said that after your sophomore year the faculty will evaluate your progress and then based on that you will either progress to upper level courses, or maybe have to re-take some, or they might recommend the BA in Theater instead. Not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure that's what was said by Mr. Clark at an informational meeting.</p>
<p>Cindy has accurately recounted what Syracuse told us. It was not an arbitrary cut program.</p>
<p>Ithaca: students are regularly evaluated during the first 4 semesters (juries), but any MT or acting major may have their status changed at any time during the time they are a student.</p>
<p>How's this for accuracy, close enough for an idea:</p>
<p>CCM - six months up to after sophomore year
DePaul - after Fr yr
Ithaca - Juried regularly through soph yr, later on as needed basis
Syracuse - soft cut after soph yr
U of AZ - after Fr & Soph yrs</p>
<p>Also lets keep the link explaining what and why of cut policy with this list: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/musicalthe.../cutpolicy.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.geocities.com/musicalthe.../cutpolicy.html</a></p>
<p>I want to reiterate that NYU/Tisch does NOT have cuts. In fact, my husband recently attended the information session held for parents at CAP21 with the head of the program. He categorically explained that they do not have cuts and in fact, he firmly was against cuts in general. Some directors, like this one, and I recall a simiilar "talk" by the head of the MT program at UMich, actually explain their philosophy as to why they do not have cuts. There is a philosophy in each program. Some explain why they have cuts and some explain why they do not as they know people are choosing amongst these programs and so they try to point out the differences and their reasons behind their policies. My husband said that the head of CAP went further about the cuts, besides the reasons why they do not want to cut kids from the actual program. He also explained that he is not keen on the fact that the Tisch showcase for agents and casting directors (industry nights) cannot include all CAP students and is by audition. So, that is one reason behind the fact that they have also added a CAP only showcase in which every fourth year CAP student may participate. That is how much he cared about inclusion for all students they have chosen to take into the program. They want to keep them all and include them all and take them as far as they can go. </p>
<p>Several programs, including Tisch, have REASONS why there are no cuts. It is a philosophy or approach to taking the students and nurturing them. It does not mean there are no standards or no evaluations but simply that there are no cuts. Like in any college, however, a student can be failing (I have been a college teacher so come from that perspective), but that is a different story. Anyone who is not coming to class and is getting poor grades, might not be able to stay at a college or might be on probation or whatever system the college has set up. That is not the same as cuts of the nature being discussed in this thread. </p>
<p>I can't comment on some friend in the past at NYU or what happened. I don't know if the student was failing. I don't know if the student was advised to change course. The set up at Tisch is that you are in "Primary studio" for two years and then can stay in that studio for the next two years or choose to switch to a different studio if you want to experience another approach. You are not told to switch. You can choose. I have no idea about the student you know but I'm just saying that NYU/Tisch does NOT have a cut policy. If a certain studio is not working for that student, they will work with the student to see if a different studio would be more appropriate but usually they WANT you to stay in the studio they assigned you. I have never heard of anyone being cut from Tisch all together. As I said, the head of CAP chose to explain why they do NOT have a cut policy, when making his presentation about the program. </p>
<p>I recall at the UMich presentation, Brent Wagner doing the very same thing. He knew people were contemplating several other top MT programs and chose to explain their approach and how it differed from a cut policy and WHY. It is a different philosophy. CAP21's is the same philiosophy on this particular matter. </p>
<p>That is not to say that "non-cut" schools do not have evaluations and suggestions for students to improve. They do. But they are not cut. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I also want to say that there is a difference between an evaluation like Syracuse has where they try to guide a student into perhaps a different degree program in the school or have the student repeat some courses until the student meets the standard, and a cut policy where a college accepts a certain amount of students with the intent of decreasing the number of students in the program as the four years go on with the class and cut over issues of talent and whether the student has a chance to make it. There is a difference between cutting over talent issues and being out of the program all together with a program that evaluates you and gives areas to improve or even probationary measures or classes that need repeating or advises you to change course in the degree program and so forth. Those students are not out of the college. There are many chances given to improve and evaluations are given over standards that students must meet (like in many colleges....grades and so forth). I do not see what Syracuse is doing in the same light as programs that have a cut policy.</p>
<p>Susan</p>