Schools with flight program: Embry Riddle, Florida Institute of technology, Purdue University

College Search & Selection
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Hello, I’m thinking about a professional pilot program degree. Which one would you suggest between these schools? Embry Riddle, Purdue University, Florida Institute of Technology? I have found other schools like North Dakota state university but I wouldn’t go for any reason there… I would prefer Florida or Ca for weather.

Does anyone have any experience with these schools I mentioned ? Or do you have other schools to suggest?

I have heard both nice and bad things about Embry Riddle. A friend of mine who is an airline pilot suggested me to choose Embry Riddle in Daytona since is the one with best reputation in the industry. On Google I have found some bad comments about school, some of them really really bad, for example it costs too much and the program is not serious. Another thing I noticed about Embry Riddle Daytona is the graduation rate only 55%. is that normal?

2

Ohio State has its own airport and a nice aviation program. A recent donation of planes and some major renovations happening at the airport, too. They also have competitive flight teams.

3

My daughter went to FIT, but not for flight. It is very expensive to do the flight program. Same at Embry-Riddle (Florida or AZ).

You might not like ND, but it is cheaper.

4

Thanks for your reply.

My concern is not about money but about quality of education I can get and I would like to be in a environment I like. Money come second, indeed I don’t want to waste them too.

What degree your daughter choose at FIT? Why she choose FIT if I can ask?

As for Embry Riddle when I wrote to them they always answered me quickly and kindly. They said can hire me as flight instructor after I get instructor license, they also told me they have program with regional airlines in which I can be hired by them after degree also with a kind of restricted ATP license. I verified that program with the regional airline (air Wisconsin) does exist. From what they say everything looks nice. But I can’t understand while there are so many bad comments around. Is it all because price is high? Or there is something else?

5

You may want to move this post out of the U of Michigan folder.

Purdue’s flight program is awesome. Also an on campus airport.

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My daughter was in civil engineering at FIT, which is probably the smallest major at the school. There are a lot of aeronautical engineering and mechanical engineering, but I think (not really sure) that most of the flight school students are in the business school, which has some majors like airport management.

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Why most of the flight school students are the business school?

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@studentguy - because business is an easy major compare to engineering, physics, math, etc. Many prospective pilots are primarily interested in flying and that’s all they care about. The academics and degree is just a hurdle that they have to overcome. Airlines do not care what your degree is in, though most require one to have a four year degree. Buyer beware however, your degree in “aviation business” or “aviation maintenance management” isn’t worth much outside of aviation, and many airline or major corporate aviation pilot hopefuls wind up having to do something else. Schools like Embry Riddle, Purdue, FIT, Univ. of North Dakota, etc., are essentially aviation vocational schools with respect to flying. Have a backup in case the flying doesn’t work out. Even if one gets into an airline flying position (after many years of lower level charter, cargo, and flight instruction work), airline pilots must pass a rigorous FAA medical exam every 6 months. If you cannot pass the exam, your airline career is over.

My advice to prospective pilots is to major in something that has market value outside of aviation such as engineering, math, accounting, physics, chemistry, etc… (in conjunction with the flight training) with which one can get a job outside of aviation as a fallback.

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Thanks for your reply. Your idea is correct I can understand it. I agree business is a easy degree and gives more jobs opportunity than aeronautical science that I think is useful only as pilot. Is it a professional pilot degree (Embry riddle calls it aeronautical science) hard? I have seen subjects it doesn’t seems so difficult. It looks interesting too.

I think engineering is harder than a aviation science degree or do i’m wrong? Because if it is like that it would be a wasting of energy and time if it’s not my main focus.

Is it possible for example to take a graduate course in aerospace engineering after a barcherlor degree in aviation? That would be a choice in case pilot career woudn’t go well.

Engeering looks interesting and I know it gives good working position. But I don’t know what job you can get with a math or chemistry undergraduate degree.

As for getting a job as airline pilot is not so difficult especially right now the period is good. In Europe you can be hired by an airline with just the license and 300 hours, Wizzair does. As for USA the first step is the regional airline. Majore airlines like Emirates want skilled pilots min requirement flight hours are 2.000 hours on a big jet. You can achieve them in 2 years in a company like wizzair or american regional. So for example straight after school 2 years in wizzair (as first officer flying a 320 airbus). So you don’t need many years as flight instructor or low level charter. Cargo companies pay approx the same as airline. In some case even more.

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@studentguy - Aeronautical science at a school like Embry Riddle isn’t the same thing as, say, aeronautical engineering at an engineering school. It’s not as hard as actual engineering, and doesn’t contain the high level foundation math, physics, chemistry, etc., theory that is part of an engineering degree. If one intends to be an engineer, most employers require an actual engineering degree.

I suppose you can take graduate courses in aerospace engineering if the school permits you to do so. If you want to work in aerospace engineering, you really need the degree, not just a few courses. Some schools may admit students without an engineering degree to their master’s programs in engineering, but I assume you are talking about undergraduate. If you know you want to do engineering work in case the piloting doesn’t work out, definitely go for the engineering degree.

Math is in demand in the financial and tech industries - companies that do significant research and development have mathematicians. Math majors can also work in actuarial science and accounting (though one needs to have a certain amount of accounting courses to sit for the CPA exam in most states). Chemists find employment in chemical companies, pharmaceuticals, and industrial research (my friend in college got his bachelor’s and master’s in chemistry and was hired by one of the major drug companies. He later got his PhD in organic chemistry and is now their VP of research).

I don’t think it’s that easy to get into an airline piloting job despite the airline industry doing better now than it did say 25 years ago. I had once considered giving up engineering and going into airline piloting, but after thinking about it I decided I liked going to work at 9, being home at 5, not having to travel much, and my comfortable chair and desk. To qualify for a first officer on a Part 121 (scheduled) airline you must have an ATP rating. This requires 1500 hours (there is now an “entry level” ATP that requires 1200 hours). You must also now have Level D (full motion/visual) simulator training on a jet or other transport category aircraft to get a multiengine ATP rating. Unless you can get into an airline program that pays for this training after you get your commercial, multiengine, and CFI ratings at Embry Riddle or Purdue, etc (which you have to pay for), you will incur six figure debt in student loans even before getting that airline job. That should be a non-starter, IMO.

My advice - have a viable marketable backup outside of aviation (unless it’s aerospace engineering).

Full disclosure - Ph.D., Electrical engineering, engineer for a Fortune 500 aerospace manufacturer, PE, hold commercial pilot certificate, and aircraft owner.

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In Europe you don’t need a ATP, you just need the ATPL license and 300 hours for Wizzair. They also give you a interest free loan of 30k € for the type rating then they will take a part of salary for paying the type rating back. If you work with them you can easy reach 900 hours per years flying the airbus 320. You can do the same for Ryanair but you have to pay type rating. As for traveling for some may be an issue, but I think for this job you must love travelling since it’s part of it.

I don’t like so much math or just chemistry, instead I would choose biology or business, engineering looks interesting too. But at this point would be better choose another school specialized in those degrees. Then take a pilot license later.

I have a friend who suggested me to do law school or med school just for money. He did law now during his practice he told me he is making 140k USD per year during his practice just straight out of school! He was one of the best of his school, he is in a top firm etc etc. I think both law and Med are better choices for money instead of engeeeing, math or chemestry, but at this point is just choosing something for money and not for a passion.

12

Engineering is mostly math, chemistry, physics.

Look, FIT and ERAU are engineering schools with flight schools. If you aren’t interested in what FIT and ERAU offer in the main university, save your money and go somewhere cheaper. Both FIT and ERAU have tuition at over $40k, then room and board is another $15k, and flight school another $15-20k. ERAU has engineering, a lot of cyber security and other computer majors. FIT has psychology (Autism center and forensic psych), marine biology, business with construction and aeronautic emphasis, and some general majors like communications. Honestly, the communications majors are very expensive for what those students get and most have picked FIT for another reason (athletics, flight, living near home,etc). A lot of the flight students are wealthy foreign students who don’t really care what college costs.

That may be what you are looking for too and don’t care how much the school costs, but you should look at what other majors are offered if you don’t like chemistry and math.

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I know chemistry and math are part of most of degrees. I only said I woun’t take a degree with a major in math, doing all math. For me it’s boring. Full Price of ERAU should be 35K plus flight + 10-11 room and board. FIT is more expensive than ERAU.

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@studentguy - I don’t know what the rules are in Europe, but I thought that the European equivalent of a scheduled airline (Part 121 in the US) under EASA rules required an ATP. What is an ATPL? (Airline Transport Pilot License?), so when you say an ATP isn’t required but an ATPL is, that is unclear to me.

I would be surprised if Europe allows an entry level first officer on a scheduled airline on jet or turboprop equipment to have only 300 hours. That is barely more that what is required for a commercial pilot certificate both in the US and Europe, and far short of the requirements for ATP.

Frankly, I would think twice about boarding an A320 or any other transport category airliner piloted by someone without an ATP (assuming that is true) and only 300-900 hours of experience.

If the airline that you propose to work for hires you and provides the flight training on their equipment to whatever the standards are required to be a first officer on that airline in your country, that is of course far preferable to your paying for it yourself. The interest free loan is nice but I still wouldn’t pay for it myself. Whether in Europe or the US, that training is so expensive that having to pay for it yourself should be a no-go from the beginning.

Medicine in the US is a sure path to money because the US lacks a national health system (unfortunately) whereas in Europe the reimbursements (and hence, salaries) of physicians is set by the particular nation’s national health insurance. Law (in the US, don’t know what it is like in Europe) is a gamble. Some do very well, but there are many who do not, particularly if they did not attend one of what are considered to be the “top 14” law schools in the US. In the US, there is a great overabundance of lawyers.

In the US (again, I don’t know the situation in Europe) engineering is the highest paid undergraduate degree at least to start and in midcareer after 10-15 years. The average starting salary for an engineer with a BS degree and no experience, just out of school, is about $67,000. That is significantly higher than an entry level pilot.

Engineering requires calculus, calculus based physics, chemistry, probability and statistics, and many other theoretical and applied science and engineering courses that all use high level mathematics. If you do not like those subjects, I would recommend something other than engineering.

Again, I am not familiar with the European system. Universities with flight programs or flying colleges in Europe may operate differently than in the US. Can you study something marketable outside of aviation in concert with your flight training? If you can, I would highly recommend that.

15

When I say ATP isn’t required, I mean is not required to reach 1500 hours like with FAA. You can get ATPL in school doing 200-300 flight hours with and a type rating you can fly and Airbus.

Is it possible to convert FAA license in EASA. This is the requirement page for Wizzair (a kind of regional airline): http://ldd.tbe.taleo.net/ldd03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=WIZZAIR&cws=1&rid=516

You can also enter in Wizzair with type rating paying it by yourself: http://ldd.tbe.taleo.net/ldd03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=WIZZAIR&cws=1&rid=515

Embry Riddle talked me about this program they have with Airwisconsin:

http://www.airwis.com/airman_trainee.html

http://www.airwis.com/pilots.html

My friend american layer told me that a criminal one can’t make so much money, only top civilian lawyers can make good money. But is a field I wound’t choose.

ERAU career office told me they found jobs for their students after graduation in many airlines all over the world.

It doesn’t seems so hard finding a job as airline pilot.

16

Just to know what about a bachelor degree in business field? Does it give good chances?

Anyway thanks Engineer80 for all infos :slight_smile:

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@studentguy - Please take whatever E-R or any other school tells you about employment statistics with a “caveat emptor” (that is, buyer or consumer beware). Schools always will always report favorable placement statistics. I know many airline and corporate pilots (albeit, all in the US with FAA certificates not EASA licenses in Europe). None of them describe their road to the left seat of a jet airliner or corporate jet as being easy. Most took many years to get to those positions.

I am surprised EASA allows anyone with 200-300 hours to get an ATPL and fly a jet airliner. To my view, that is nowhere near sufficient. I read that the ATPL one gets after that amount of time is “frozen” until one reaches 1500 hours. Is there some type of restriction in what type of flying or operation one can conduct before reaching 1500 hours?

I wouldn’t get onto an Airbus or 737 flown by someone with only 200-300 hours. Europe in many ways tends to have tighter regulations than the US, so once again, I am surprised one can fly on a scheduled airline with such low time. Is there a restriction on time for an FO vs. the captain (i.e., does the captain require more time than the first officer)?

My first flight instructor was a graduate of E-R with a degree in “aviation management”. He was fortunate in that he got a job as a dispatcher trainee with UPS. He wanted to be a pilot for UPS, but for whatever reason was unable to get into a flying position there. He was lucky he had the desk job at UPS, because IMO the degree in aviation business is of little value outside of aviation. I’m sure E-R told him when he first enrolled there how great it was and what a “sure thing” becoming an airline pilot would be. Don’t believe what they say at face value, do your own research. E-R costs more than $50k a year without the flight training. Taking out student loans to finance such exhorbitant tuition should be a non-starter, IMO.

Criminal law can pay handsomely if one defends rich white collar criminals. The public defender defending destitute criminals who can’t afford a lawyer makes far less of course. I am certain Bernard Madoff’s attorneys got paid very well for example.

I can’t believe FAA would accept an EASA ATPL with 300 hours as the equivalent of a US ATP with 1500 hours required (actually, one can get an ATP with less than 1500 hours if one graduates from an approved aviation program in a college, but again, the aviation degree has little value outside the aviation field) so if you got the EASA ATPL and wanted to convert to an ATP in the US, you may have to get the additional flight time.

Best to you in your endeavors. I wish you luck. I don’t think the airline pilot route is easy, inexpensive, or a sure thing, regardless that airlines today may be doing better than they did say two decades ago.

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@studentguy - I think a degree in business from a school known to have a strong business program is a better bet than one in “aviation business”. IMO, none of the aviation focused colleges have very strong general business programs. Business however is the most popular college major in the US and there is a large supply of people with business degrees, so there is much competition for jobs among them.

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Yes, in Europe you can take the ATPL during flight training with 200/300 hours flight, then you can fly a big jets with type rating. Some airline companies (like wizzair) hire pilots also with 200/300 hours flight expirience. Have you seen the link?

Altough Europe has usually tigher regulations for everything, is not like that for aviation, FAA is tighter than EASA.

I can’t understand the question for captain and FO.

For becoming a captain it depends airline regulations, with Wizzair you can become captain fast like 2/3 years as first officer. For easy jet they requested 7 years as first officer (if you start everything with them)

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If I’m ever in Europe again I will think twice about boarding an airliner there. In my opinion, 200-300 hours is nowhere near enough to fly a transport category aircraft safely and proficiently. You won’t even have any significant instrument time in actual (instrument meteorological conditions) in only 300 hours. How can one be expected to pilot an airliner in those conditions with so little experience? I have 3,500 hours of flying time of which 250 hours or so is actual instrument time. That is typical of pilots in general, instrument time generally is 10-15% of total flight time, unless one is flying in a place like Alaska where the weather creates low visibility conditions frequently.

My question regarding captain vs. FO was does a captain (who would be the pilot in command, I imagine) require more flight time than the FO by EASA regulation (irrespective of individual airline or company policies)?