<p>So if a kid took the PSAT as a completely-unprepped freshman, would you expect that the percentiles would stay the same from year to year or would they rise with some prep? Also, since the percentiles as a freshman are based on comparisons with sophomores, would that student be a higher percentile with her peers than with those sophomores the next year when actually compared with her peers?</p>
<p>Actually, the scores that the kids are compared to are for juniors, not sophomores. The only time the test counts is when they take it as juniors. I would expect the scores to rise from freshman to junior year. I don't know if there is usually a huge leap for many kids from sophomore to junior years. Two of my 3 sons improved from around 200 sophmore year to the mid 220s junior year. The third kid when from a 200 to a 201. None of them did any kind of prep.</p>
<p>"Actually, the scores that the kids are compared to are for juniors, not sophomores. "</p>
<p>Really? The score report says that the percentiles are of sophomores even though she's a freshman. I'm very confused.</p>
<p>My son is allergic to prep. There was a big jump from his 8th grade SAT scores to his 10th grade PSAT scores. A very small jump from soph. to jr. year PSAT scores and another small jump from jr. PSAT to jr. SAT scores.</p>
<p>zoosermom, yes the PSAT can be prepped. There are prep books if this is important to your child. My D wouldn't prep for anything.</p>
<p>I'm not really asking if she can prep, but rather about the percentiles. If she's in a particular percentile as a freshman being compared to sophomores (as the report says), when in sophomore year she is compared to other people the same year as she, would the percentile generally improve? Also (which was answered), does prep really help or would a kid improve percentiles from year to year? I guess I'd always assumed that with no prep the kid would stay at the same percentile from year to year as she gets older. You can tell I'm lost, right? zoosersister came home with PSAT scores today. She scored in the 92nd percentile of sophomores and I was wondering (generally) if that 92nd would have been higher if she were only compared to other freshman. This is clearly not pressing, but Zoosergirl never took the PSAT before junior year and Zoosersister was required.</p>
<p>By my comment that the PSAT can be prepped, I meant that YES, scores improve with proper preparation. A student can easily prep the PSAT using Xiggi's method (well known on these boards) and improve his or her scores.</p>
<p>First, the percentiles don't really matter in the scheme of things - colleges don't really look at them. Second, since they are based on the results of all students who take the exam in a particular year, it is probably impossible to predict how they might change from freshman year (when relatively few freshmen and sophomores take the exam) to junior year (when larger numbers take the exam). So, I wouldn't worry about the percentile, or worry about it too much. Focus instead on the actual scores, which is all colleges ultimately will care about in the end. Those should typically rise significantly between freshman and junior year, even without prep, as the PSAT is designed for juniors, and junior level curriculum achievement.</p>
<p>I myself think requiring students to take the PSAT every year from 9th grade on is a bit silly. I think it's fine to take it once in 10th grade for practice, or before then if it is needed for a summer program or other actual purpose, but requiring all students to take it puts too much emphasis on the test too early, in my humble opinion.</p>
<p>D took it in the 9th and the 11th, neither time reading all of the dang packet, much less prepping. Her scores improved 24 points. (I'm getting senile. Maybe it was 14 points, whatever. It went up a lot just by getting older. Wow. This stuff used to be important to me. Now I can't even remember the dang scores. LOL. )</p>
<p>what curm said</p>
<p>They get better just by doing coursework, reading interesting books and getting older. I was surprised how much my son's scores went up.</p>
<p>And I've heard of scores for a student on the PSAT going down over time. Plus some kids get a higher junior year PSAT score than they do on their (adjusted, very roughly equivalent) junior year SAT I (probably no mystery on that one, given the length of the SAT I).</p>
<p>My point is that test results are sometimes just a snapshot of that day and not terribly predictive or predictible (over a course of multiple tests over time, maybe; as between any two tests for any one individual, probably not). </p>
<p>I'd try to avoid the mindset of expecting a particular trend on a particular testing date and try to stay flexible, leaving your child enough time to regroup and maybe retest if the results for the first SAT I or for an SAT II aren't as strong as your child reasonably would hope. The PSAT has the NM cachet but it is the SAT I or ACT, plus the SAT IIs, that matter for admissions.</p>
<p>We are done with the testing, fortunately (senior accepted ED), but some of my D's classmates have been scrambling all fall because they didn't leave time for SAT retests. And now some of them are deferred and are upset that they just assumed that they wouldn't care about testing and didn't sign up for the Dec. testing date. Not a fun place to be as they are also scrambling to finish additional applications, using scores that they have lost some confidence in.</p>
<p>Good luck with the tests. It will feel good to have them done.</p>
<p>I wouldn't underestimate the power of a good night's sleep, either. DS1 went in cold to the PSAT in 9th and 10th -- barely remembered it was happening, did no prep, and didn't get more than 6-7 hours of sleep.</p>
<p>This year he got 10 hours the night before, got himself into "test mode" (bacon, cereal and a can of Jolt for breakfast), and raised his score 22 points. He readily admits he is useless without a good night's sleep -- an important self-realization he will need to keep in mind as he starts thinking about dorm life, roommates, etc.</p>
<p>I'm just trying to prognisticate here, LOL. I have never had freshman PSAT scores before, so I looked at them and said "Ok, what does this mean?" and "now what?" I had a sense with older daughter what her scores (junior year) meant in terms of the college search, but for this one I have absolutely no clue. I want her to give it some thought because our particularly family situation requires that she will visit colleges in the second half of shophomore year. I should just get a crystal ball, right? I was trying to extrapolate that if her percentiles remained the same 2 1/2 years from now that she would have XXX score range.</p>
<p>I think Carolyn hit the nail on the head--forget about the percentages, freshmen and sophmores who take the PSAT are too small and skewed a sample to mean much. But taking the raw PSAT scores and converting them to SAT scores, and figuring that most students will improve just because of exposure to more math, more vocabulary, etc. in two years of HS should give you some idea of the tiers of school that might be appropriate to visit.</p>
<p>The college board has a study that quantifies sophomore to junior year improvement if you's like hard stats to extrapolate from:</p>
<p>Thank you for explaining what it was that I really wanted! I'm not very articulate sometimes and am clearly at a loss here. I'm going to check out that link.</p>