I could use some advice of what scores I should send, (time is running out!)
Here are my options:
5 on AP US HISTORY
35 on ACT (35 MATH, 36 SCIENCE, 35 ENGLISH, 32 READING, 26 WRITING)
2250 SAT SUPER SCORE (760 MATH, 740 READING, 750 READING, 3 DIFFERENT TESTS)
SAT SUBJECT TESTS (780 MATH 2, 730 PHYSICS, 680 LITERATURE)
Thanks so much!
I would not submit the 730 physics score or the 680 literature score since they both are in the 68-72nd percentile: http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Subject-Tests-Percentile-Ranks-2012.pdf
I would instead let your ACT and SAT I scores speak to those general skills and not let the subject tests negate them. Are you applying as a science or math major?
@NixonDenier I strongly admire your comments and insight on the Hopkins Forum. But I’m going to have slightly disagree with you on this one. Any score 700 and above is considered a very good score. 700 and above is still showing considerable knowledge in the subject.
That’s perfectly fine to disagree - there are no perfect answers for us to give as outsiders to this complex and messy process. Here’s my rationale:
For a long time it was a general rule to say that 700+ are great scores, and of course, in a general sense, they are, but when you look at recent percentiles for tests like Physics, Chemistry and Math IIC you see that even perfect 800s are the new 85-90th percentile (see previous comment’s link). This means that 10-15% of students taking these tests are getting perfect scores - perfect scores!
While I don’t have the stats to back it up (I doubt they’re available), I can only imagine that these same high-performing students are the same students who tend to be at the top 10% of their class (not only because of the high scores but also because they are taking subject tests in the first place). You can bet these science and math-oriented students who perform well are the same block of applicants who, as a whole, apply to math and science magnet schools like JHU. So in my scenario the school is being inundated with very high math and science subject test scores. Also imagine the frustration these committees must endure attempting to compare apples to oranges when selecting applicants. Remember that in any population it will be a bell curve with most applicants falling within a certain range, in this case, it would seem a range of high subject test scores. As a committee member, wouldn’t you love standardized tests as they compare apples to apples and allow you to definitively say (for the most part) this student is better than this student on this content? These tests really take the guesswork out of portions of the selection process, so why offer them the chance to assess you with a score that unfortunately is not nearly as competitive as the 700+ adage once indicated? Subject tests are not required by JHU (of course they are highly recommended), but if this applicant is applying as a science major (and the school only wants so many science majors) then it is very possible that a score where 30-35% of students nationwide, and maybe a higher percentage of students who are applying to a top-tier school like Hopkins, will have better scores than him/her. In my mind, don’t give these committees any freebies, force them to assess your intangibles and to rely on things like high grades and high SAT I/ACT test scores, and force them to then imagine that you would have probably scored the mean or 1st standard deviation of their other applicants. Low scores must hurt you (whatever a low score is…), but if you never took the test and it’s not required? Much more difficult to hold that against someone.
I realize preparing for a test and spending the time and money to take it only then to not send it in is frustrating, but don’t let that be the reason for submitting a score. Economics tells us to never make decisions on sunk costs.
Needless to say, there is plenty of speculation in the above paragraph, so by all means take it with a block of salt, but step back and look at how performance on all standardized tests have shockingly improved over the years. Be wary of general rules of thumb that haven’t changed in 10+ years (I remember being told 700+ as a high school freshman in 2005).
Ultimately there is no easy answer for you and it also largely relies on if you can adequately demonstrate science proficiency without sending in the Physics score. Literature is basically reading comprehension, and you clearly demonstrated that in the SATI and ACT, so that’s less of a concern. Did you take any AP or Honors science courses, and did you perform well in your science coursework in general?
@NixonDenier Thanks for your feedback. So I’m applying ED to JHU BME. I got a 36 Math &Science ACT. Did I just lower the admission officers expectations of me when I sent in the following SAT 2 Sibject scores?
Math2 :770, Physics:730, BioM: 720, Chem:720, Bio E:700. I sent in all of them two week ago? It’s too late now. But I was listening to the general thumb rule 700+ is good? What will happen? Did I make myself look worse in the eyes of JHU admission officers?
No one can say what will happen, but your test grades are on the lower side, especially for BME. However, some are still competitive scores, so have hope.
My Sat subject test scores are on the lower side, or were you mentioning the OP? @XAtlas
Yes, I was referring to your subject test scores. Like what Nixon said, it’s the percentiles that matter. Lets say everyone got a 800 on Bio M. Then, the score is somewhat worthless. Sure, the score shows some sort of aptitude in basic biology but standardized test scores are sometimes used to compare students and thus it’s not so much what you get, but how well you did compared to other students. For instance, in 9th grade, I took Bio M and I got a 770. I thought I got a relatively good score. I suppose in a certain lens I did, but I only did better than 89% of the graduating seniors. If it was at least 90% I would have been more satisfied but what can you do. In the end, just think of what kind of image you are showing or representing by sending your scores. I’m sending Math 2: 800 Chem 780 Bio M 770 and US History 720. I’m sending my history just to show I have some sort of knowledge in the humanities.
@nevergiveupp Didn’t mean to stress you out. What’s done is done for JHU now so no point in wondering what you could have done differently after the fact - it will drive you insane.
My rationale all comes down to percentiles and the fact that JHU is likely getting the most competitive math and science subject scores (which all are highly skewed scores based on percentiles already) from its applicants (this is speculation since they don’t publish the average subject scores of applicants/accepted students since they aren’t required). In that light, I would avoid comparing yourself (which is exactly what standardized tests are meant to do) unnecessarily, especially when there is a good chance you will lose out in the comparison.
In the case of JHU - who cares? - you’ve done all you can at this point. Moving forward, it will be tough to determine what schools (that don’t require subject tests) you should send them to. If they’re more competitive I would raise the threshold of what one deems is a good score (and this 700+ in all situations then really becomes silly from my perspective). Nonetheless, this process is not a science since there is no data available on what other students are applying with.
What is very important is how your grades and AP scores reflect your mastery of these subject test materials. If you demonstrate these same competencies with stellar grades and/or AP coursework and good AP scores then you don’t even need the subject tests, right? Place yourself in these committee’s shoes when making any decisions about your application and think about what you would be looking for when determining if A) Can this applicant succeed at our school? and B) How will this student contribute to our school?
At the end of the day, all assessment is being utilized to answer these two questions.
There is a fairly major point that is being missed here when thinking about subject test scores and percentiles. The subset of students taking these tests is extremely strong
@Wje9164be There is no doubt that students taking subject tests in certain subjects show some sort of prowess or at least have the confidence in the chosen subjects. However, you have to think what the purpose of this test is for, which is to compare students on a national level on certain subjects. Sure, you can assume all the students taking these tests are strong, but, when all of these students are placed within the context of competitive college admissions, you have to consider how many seats there are within the universities compared to amount of people applying. Don’t get me wrong, in no way am I discrediting anyone with a 700+ score. However, the applicant pool to competitive schools will undoubtedly be strong so you are not competing with people with lower scores (usually) anyway. You have to consider yourself within a high-scoring applicant pool and there are a lot of students with high scores.