Another PNW’er here. If your kid is concerned about being far away you might want to concentrate on California schools. 2+ hour plane flight to LA, same time zone - lots of options re: schools and location. That being said, my kid wanted to get as far away from here as possible - but luckily enough is a direct plane flight away in Philadelphia.
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California (Thornton) would be her absolute dream school for both the program (contemporary vocal) and proximity (easy flight, same time zone)! We saw 11 schools in Southern Cal. and so far UCLA and USC are still on her list (maybe Chapman?). Having extended family in the area also really helps!
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USC Thornton would be a fantastic — dare I say the most fantastic — option for your daughter. That said, please know that the pop music program has a track record of giving little to no scholarship money, especially compared to other Thornton majors (including jazz performance). Would hate for you guys to have sticker shock.
Also, don’t know if you guys visited CSULB Bob Cole or CSUN. Both have solid jazz programs, and CSULB in particular has a very long history of strength in vocal jazz.
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We visited CSULB and after speaking with family friends who live in Long Beach we discovered it’s predominantly a “commuter college”. Our daughter really wants the college experience with students largely living on campus and taking advantage of all the school and social scene have to offer (minus the Greek system which she’s not enticed about!).
We’re hoping Northwestern, Oberlin, Gettysburg, Carnegie Mellon might be interesting to her. We’ll be touring late July. Fingers crossed!
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All 4 of those schools appear to have vocal performance studies based on opera.
I think the dual goal of vocal performance with contemporary music. and wanting to be part of a college with access to good academics, and integration with non-music students, really narrows your choices.
Your husband didn’t enjoy being in an all-music environment. How would your daughter feel?
Thornton, Frost, Berklee, New School, Belmont, Loyola New Orleans have all been mentioned on here for contemporary vocal and songwriting. Of those, only Thornton and Loyola would seem to meet your criteria. (Here is Loyola Popular and Commercial Music | Loyola University New Orleans (loyno.edu)
If you daughter doesn’t want to do opera, I don’t see why you are visiting the schools on your list but maybe I am missing something! Puget Sound is a possibility Music | University of Puget Sound
I think your daughter could also do well, if her goal includes being in an environment that is not all music, at any liberal arts college where she could do music as a major, or as a continued extracurricular. There are many many colleges where she could thrive musically, but a BA in music does mean 2/3-3/4 classes that are not music. These are generally non-audition and she would submit a music supplement. She could choose based on size, location, and “vibe.”
But even BA programs are predominantly classical so you have to look closely to see if popular or contemporary music classes and lessons are offered.
I see where you are going with these comments @compmom. And it’s certainly worth saying your opinion. However I think that it’s OK to visit and consider these schools for the following reasons (which may or may not apply to the OP’s situation).
1.). You never fully understand what a school offers sometimes until you visit and ask. I remember being dismissive of the idea of silos in schools. Certainly the theater, MT and opera groups all worked together, right? It wasn’t until I was told to my face by a couple music admissions people that I started getting the message…and even then my D went to school for VP with the assumption should would do theater too…as that school offered a path…which she was too busy in music to really pursue. I’m still a bit in denial with it all after 10 years…and honestly there are ways to do a variety of work (point 2) so I don’t think the visits are “less than”…she may actually want to have one or two classical foundation schools on her list (point 3).
2.). I wrote earlier about a friend of my D’s in a heavy opera and classical program that did a lot of contemporary with her teacher. A good vocal education is a good vocal education. And many of the schools will have a variety of opportunities. Still you may have to swim a bit against the current. She also had a friend in VP who stopped auditioning for the operas and mainly auditioned for the plays…and had some success. My D stayed with opera as she was getting cast…it’s just hard to do both. So the OP’s D wouldn’t have to audition for operas…she could be gigging in the town instead (which some opera singers with cross-over voices did too). The key here is the right teacher. Some teachers want their kids in opera…but actually at some programs with grad students, the UG teachers may care less and be fine with building a voice outside of the operas.
3.). In voice, sometimes it’s the sound of your voice that determines who accepts you. My D did get MT acceptances (voices lean more contemporary/rock these days). But there was more money and enthusiasm for her in VP programs…bc of her sound…and how naturally loud she is. So for voice, interactions with a variety of programs/teachers (if affordable) is not a bad thing for determining direction.
My hope for the OP is that she can use this trip with her D to look at these programs honestly to determine fit. I’m hoping that she can have some interactions with teachers as well, so they can hear her voice to determine how to move forward with her current talent and her goals. It is a “process”. So good luck on your trip @musichunt2022. Let us know how it goes.
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@Bridgenail you know a lot about voice. I do not, and my post was intended more as a question than an opinion, so sorry if it came off as an opinion.
I would worry that the daughter would have to do a required curriculum (including a lot of language classes) that might not fit her needs. I am glad you posted because you know this landscape.
I am curious what you think about attending an LAC for a BA and doing some of the extracurricular/gigging activities at one of those, without a BM program on campus.
If you are considering St. Olaf, you may want to have a look at Pacific Lutheran just down the road from you. The Choral program is one of the best in the Nation in the same Choral tradition as St. Olaf. My daughter was accepted at both Lawrence and Oberlin for vocal performance, (she didn’t consider St. Olaf as she was already auditioning at PLU) but decided the teaching at PLU was every bit as good as those schools. However, she is classically focused. If your daughter is having any issue with wrapping her head around going across country to school, it probably wouldn’t hurt to talk to someone there. They also have a composition major, and she could easily double major outside of music.
Songwriting and composition are different fields, though someone could transfer from one to the other. For BM programs, a composer needs a portfolio, preferably with performance(s) by live musicians- sometimes via summer programs. For BA programs, usually no portfolio needed, and some students like the OP’s daughter could get into composition in a liberal arts curriculum.
For VP, Does she want choral, jazz or contemporary/popular? Is a classical foundation something that is needed and desired?
She has some original pieces and definitely more interested in songwriting over composition. Ideally she’d love to find a legit contemporary program (1945 and after) but it’s proving to be pretty difficult to find. She’s had classical training since age 5 in a choral program and realizes classical would be a great foundation going forward (much like dancers would need ballet regardless of emphasis). We joined a Vanderbilt Zoom call and they emphasized opera, and classical musical theatre. They intimated no belting. My daughter’s learned how to belt safely and LOVES singing Aretha, Ronstadt, Bonnie Rait, Alicia Bridges, Mamas and Papas etc. etc. She appreciates the oldies but trying to find her own voice by studying the greats.
USC Thornton and Frost are great fits musically. I am hoping others with kids with these interests post. A few years ago there were quite a few singers/songwriters. You could look for posts by @SpartanDrew
We’re on our tour now and my daughter went gaga over Northwestern, and really liked Oberlin and CMU. Tomorrow we see Peabody, and onward to Vassar, NYU, and Yale. We still need some safety schools in there. These are pretty strong stretch schools! I don’t want to say the wrong thing here but we’ve been watching the Covid numbers tick up again in Florida. We’re all vaccinated but my daughter’s ambivalent about going to an area that’s not as well vaccinated as where we live. It may be the only reason why she may not apply there and it’s disheartening. I know it’s a great school!!!
It looks like I missed a few posts from above–all GREAT information!
So what I’ve learned is this:
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Even though my D loves the oldies and has been successful in that area she knows she’s going to need to start digging deep into the classical repertoire. It appears to be necessary for most of the auditions and she realizes classical may need to be her main focus for a few (four) years. She’s okay with that knowing she might also be able to join an accapella group on the side which would be a bit more “fun” as an extracurricular activity.
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Visiting schools has proven to be invaluable. She’s been able to eliminate schools from her list after personal tours that she would have otherwise wasted time preparing an audition for–only to find it wasn’t the right fit. One small example… my husband went to NEC and let her know he was spending 8 hours per day in a practice room sometimes. Each of Oberlin’s practice rooms have windows. None of Gettysburg College’s practice rooms had windows. This alone is not a deal breaker but a consideration when you account for the amount of hours potentially being spent in a small enclosed space. Food for thought.
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Some schools don’t offer musical theatre to voice majors. Some of them have you audition through the dram a department. That’s neither the norm nor the exception but is in fact the case at some schools. Something to consider.
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The more I spend time with my D on campuses the more I realize she truly does gravitate to smaller, more intimate settings. In order to go to a big school, she’s really going to need to love the program.
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I’m so glad to hear its going well! Vocalists are young…and some really do want the classical training even if it’s not the end game for them. Our first visit was an MT program; and even though I was impressed, my D was surly and sassy after. She finally said that she didn’t want to go there since they did no classical training. It was the first time she said that classical was important. I think that she assumed all schools did it. So yes, dig into the music programs, drama programs and MT programs as well as the extracurricular activities available. Some of these extracurriculars can be quite good if the on-campus MT program is mainly for MT students (not uncommon - but not all kids are cast in every show - so they go outside of the school and do excellent work). Sometimes MT and Music students will mix in these extracurricular activities. These can be harder to find out about…but they exist at many schools.
And, as a vocalist, my D never spent 8 hrs in a practice room. Maybe your H is an instrumentalist? Vocalist are lucky/unlucky in the fact that their instrument is in their body and it can wear sound-wise easily…so there are no 8 hr practice session for vocalists (maybe 2 hrs). However vocalists do spend a lot of time in their room, coffee shops etc listening to their music, translating their music, memorizing their music (no scores in hands during an opera) etc.
I hope that this helps. Enjoy the rest of your trip!
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Ha! I suppose I should’ve mentioned that yes my husband was a piano major! I completely agree that a few hours+ at a time for vocalists is the norm but too much of a good thing is certainly a bad thing on the vocal cords. Today we went to NYU in NYC. It certainly doesn’t have that traditional campus feeling but there is SO MUCH to offer for Vocal Performance majors! I’m happy to report for that reason as well as Broadway musical theatre shows just up the street-- it’s staying on the list for now. We’re also starting to ask some of the classical-only programs about their extracurricular accapella groups. It seems to me she may find a nice balance between the two. And fun fact–isn’t it clever that Gettysburg College has a group called, “Four Scores”!??
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