<p>What advice do you have for a student who is interested in finding the best undergraduate program? Sometimes lesser known schools have strengths in a given field. We are trying not to apply to the same 12 colleges that everybody else applies to, and my DD has three or four interests. I thought it might give her some fresh ideas to search by program.</p>
<p>Mombot: I don't think that's a bad approach; it will open up new ideas for your D to look outside the box. The one caveat I would raise is to think about what she would think of each school if she should change her mind about what program she was interested in. Would she still want to attend that school?</p>
<p>A few years ago, my D took the program approach, only looking for schools with a particular major. When she changed her mind about that, she realized she'd put herself in a place she didn't want to be, for a variety of reasons, and ended up transfering (and was very happy in the new school, so all's well that end's well, but truthfully, transfering is something to avoid if at all possible.)</p>
<p>I do think this approach might be fine in the beginning of your college search, but be sure that the colleges she chooses have a strong curriculum in the areas outside of her current interests, as well. My daughter was positive she was going to major in literature, english, or creative writing, as they were her loves since she was in the third grade. We all knew that's what she'd do,as those areas were her strenghts. It turns out, she discovered a new passion in college that's an even better fit. </p>
<p>If you're trying to figure out the best departments at a given university, one of the first places to start is with the graduate departments. Strong grad programs usually mean strong undergrad programs in those fields, as well. You can find guides that rank various grad programs, and then look at the websites of the colleges to see what kinds of classes undergrads are able to take and what research and seminar opportunities might also be open to the undergraduates.
For liberal arts colleges, sometimes digging around on their websites can illuminate where their academic strengths lie. Look at the course catalogs online and the number and prominence of the faculty members for the fields your'e especially interested in.
Sometimes you can even find syllabi on their sites, which will really give you a sense of what their emphasis is and their approach to the various disciplines.
Visiting the schools and talking to department members and students is a great way to investigate and evaluate the individual programs once you have narrowed your list.</p>
<p>When my daughter was looking at schools, her father explored all the english departments of her long list of possibilities and critiqued them based on the methodological approach of each department. He had his biases against certain kinds of literary criticism that he hoped she'd avoid.
In the long run, she didn't really pay much attention to his "recommendations", but we all learned a lot along the way.</p>
<p>If you post her interests, there are likely to be CC parents and students who could offer suggestions about good programs. But I recommend considering the overall atmosphere and environment of the school to ensure "good fit" socially and academically. Also college should be a time for developing new interests and discovering more about your strengths and weaknesses that may not have been apparent in high school, so it's better not to choose a school on the basis of one major subject.</p>
<p>We're in the same position with respect to my oldest. She knows exactly what she wants to do (journalism--specifically print or magazine journalism in the sports field), and is looking at schools which have highly rated journalism programs and meet other personal requiremments. I echo what other posters have said--if you identify your daughter's areas of interest, this site can help you a lot, since there are usually people here who have had experience researching schools in those fields.</p>
<p>I also agree that your daughter should consider whether she would still like particular schools strong in her area if she changes her mind--kids do. I think, though, that this concern might be a little overblown, at least if she's talking about large universities, since most are at least solid (if not highly recognized) in a lot of areas. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I'll give you an example. She's always been good at math but as she goes through high school she's gotten more and more enthused about it. I randomly ran across something that talked about the strength of Carleton's math program, and passed it along to her. She wasn't interested in LACs at all, but she's willing to look at Carleton because of that. That's what I meant by starting with the programs--it might get her out of this stupid "top 10" box.</p>
<p>I know people who speak highly of Math at Dartmouth, U of Chicago and
Northwestern--as non-LACs--but each place is quite different in atmosphere-student body.</p>
<p>You may also want to consider a school's curriculum. Some schools are known to have broad based "requirements" meaning a kid is not wedded to a particular major or can take courses that are somehow connected to their interests. Two schools that come to my mind is Univ. of Rochester and Brown. I am sure there are many others that are similar. This may point you in another direction when choosing schools to consider.</p>
<p>There are many, many colleges and universities that provide an excellent overall education. And, also, obviously, many with particular strengths in certain subjects.</p>
<p>So, let's look beyond that to help your daughter find good fits. For example, can you describe your daughter to us? What are her friends like? What type of people would her "ideal" college be full of? What type of people does she dislike being around?</p>
<p>What's her learning style? Is she self-motivated? Does she prefer discussion based classes or lecture classes? Does she like to write a lot? Does she like to work independently or in groups? Does she do better when she has close relationships with teachers or is that not necessary for her to thrive? Are any subjects particular strengths or weaknesses? Any subjects she would not like to be required to take in college? </p>
<p>How about geographic preferences? Size preferences (has she visited a large, small and medium school yet)? Location preferences? Is she really deadset against LAC's or just not sure what they are? Same with research universities and master's universities. Will money be an issue? What type of grades and test scores is she likely to have? How strong is her high school curriculum? (The last two questions will help folks her make realistic suggestions for her). How does she feel about sororities? Fraternities? Drinking? Drugs?</p>
<p>Start with these questions --- and many more --- to help her narrow down what type of college/university would work best for her, then start looking for good quality programs that fit, along with having specific majors. A book recommendation: College Match by Steven Antonoff. It walks you through many more of these sorts of questions to help students figure out and narrow down what they are looking for in general.</p>
<p>There are some books that have done some of the leg work for you - Carolyn, where are you? The Fiske Guide maybe covers some of that.
The ISI book is very skewed toward conservative ideas and is partly a plea for core curriculum, but it does list the strongest departments for each school reviewed, and gives names of professors that students feel were particularly excellent teachers. I believe there is much less bias in the departmental listings than the book as a whole - for some of DD's schools we even had tour guides talk about the same profs and depts as being excellent.</p>
<p>Here's a single data point. My bud's son got a full ride to study math at SUNY - Stonybrook. What with all the national labs on Long Island, their rumored top 20 science program may be actually be that good.</p>
<p>Carolyn-- Given this kid's stats (4.0 unweighted, APs up the wazoo, 99th percentile PSATS, strong extracurriculars: team captain and newspaper editor, teachers adore her and have gone out of their way to tell her they want to recommend her, had to overcome a traumatic life experience freshman year, etc.) I keep getting the list that is exactly the list I want to avoid. She can find those schools on her own. I want her to look at some schools that are less selective, more likely to offer merit aid, and likely to have a strong curriculum in some areas without being all things to all people. She has a strong preference for traditional lectures, she doesn't like group projects and she doesn't mind a competitive environment. Her favorite of all the schools she's looked at is MIT; she liked the other students because they were all smart and driven and didn't particularly care what everybody else thinks. She is turned off by campuses full of overprivileged white kids, (even though she is one-lol).</p>
<p>Merit aid - fewer over-privileged white kids - does Grinnell offer any merit aid? Smith? I know lots of schools that would salivate to have her, but they tend to have lots of white kids, that are sort of over-privileged, more like middle class, and have headed for merit aid because they don't meet need, but aren't truly rich.
Big state unis might meet the bill if she doesn't mind big, some of htem are out to buy talent, they are generally more diverse, both socially and economically, and some have great honors colleges.
Other tech schools will not have many kids that act like "over-privileged white kids", even if a lot of them are from that background - Rochester, Ga Tech, etc.
What about a service academy?</p>
<p>Oddly, the service academies sound like a fit except for the whole being a girl part. I'm skeptical that it's a good environment for a woman. She's got Rochester on her list. </p>
<p>The financial dilemma is a tough one. The deal she went through a couple of years ago resulted in a financial settlement which is in trust for her and would cover four years of a private college but no more so she's got to choose whether or not to spend it on a bachelor's or try to save money on the bachelor's and save it for graduate school. It's a nice problem to have, but I want her to look at both options: pay up for a terrific undergrad school or be strategic about the undergrad and have resources for graduate school.</p>
<p>I am glad Rochester is on your radar. I am assuming your d is a junior so you should check out U of R website for info about their merit scholarships-Bosch& Lomb, Humanities Social/Sciences and 2 other awards. Each participating HS, can nominate a student for these awards. I am in NYS, so most of our schools participate in their nominating process. I do not know how common it is for an out of state HS to participate. If memory serves me correct, the nominating period is about now. I find the "Rochester curriculum" intriguing for those who have varied interests. I think it is a gem of a school, but ya gotta like cold weather.</p>
<p>Mombot, Get the College Match book I mentioned above. It dispells many of the myths about colleges that your daughter may have and does a good job of explaining how to find a fit, because not all top schools are the same. You may also want to buy a few of the video's from collegiatechoice.com -- they're about $15 a piece. A guidance counselor just taped the admissions tours of colleges across the country. Show her a few of the "name brands" but also a few of the "not yet a name to me" schools - that helped my daughter broaden her horizons a bit, although she wasn't looking at name brands to begin with. </p>
<p>Finally, don't worry --- kids, like most people, like the comfort of what is known. Eventually, some of them get brave and explore other options. :)</p>