<p>Lately the Parent's Forum as had a number of threads about picking elite schools for our gifted kids. We seem to be lost in some pointless semantic debates. I thought it might be time for a new thread which gets back to the basics. </p>
<p>I am interested in how others have picked colleges so I thought I would describe the process we used. I use the term "we" in a literal sense. My D, W and I spent a lot of time together cooperating on this process. The cooperation was not without some tense moments but as a whole this process brought us together as never before. Our selection process was pretty long because we had a lot to learn and none of us had a clear idea of how to select schools. We examined the following factors:</p>
<p>SAT's and selectivity
We did the best we could at selecting safeties, matches and reaches. We also realized there is not much logic to this and just being in the middle or upper SAT range was not guarantee of acceptance.</p>
<p>Reputation
We used to joke that my D's main criterion was picking a school whose name would impress her friends. In any case it is hard not to be overly swayed by a school's name and reputation.</p>
<p>Programs/Majors
My D wanted schools with strong humanities, sciences, and music programs. She was very unsure of her future goals but analysis of music and science programs helped greatly in narrowing the possible choices.</p>
<p>Distance
For a number of reasons we wanted to restrict the list to schools within a 1 days drive. A few schools outside of that distance did make it on the list but many were eliminated.</p>
<p>Campus - Architecture
We tried but it is hard to overlook a beautiful campus with ivy and stone and select an institution with the architecture of a prison. </p>
<p>Campus - Culture and "Fit"
This turned out to be very important. We found very big differences in schools that on the surface appeared similar. My D wanted a total college experience and during the visit phase we spent a lot of time looking at the cultures. Many schools were dropped from the list including all of those where alcohol and drug use are the main forms of entertainment. Some were dropped because the kids were snobbish and in cliques. My D leaned more towards the MIT-type nerdy environment than the multi-disciplinary, free thinking environment. The surrounding community was also a factor. Ideally, she wanted a defined campus community but in or near an urban area. We also looked at the faculty and teaching culture. Some schools are more nurturing; some more competitive. One very big name school was dropped becuase of one faculty member in an area she could not avoid. After the third warning we agreed there might be something to the pedophilia rumor.</p>
<p>Hooks and Money
It doesn't do much good to include schools where admission is unlikely and if admitted we could not afford the COA. We spent a lot of time trying to find schools where her unique abilities and interest would also match the admissions goals. It would take a long time to explain the details but this process and just dumb luck worked out in the end.</p>
<p>For my son:
1. Programs/Major: This was the most important aspect to my son. If you are a musician your options are cut way down. And they are really cut down if you want to do more than music.
2. Campus Culture: large international community, small size, frisbee style sports, in the end very important to son
3. Money: how did the school handle finances including merit, this was very important to mom
4. Demanding academic culture: this was important for my son which surprised me. Reputation per se was not important. He didn't have any preconceived notions about US schools. Most friends were going to schools in Europe.
5. Location: In the US, a must. Close to an airport, this was a good thing, but not totally necessary</p>
<p>I'm sure there will much overlap among all of us in the process we used. Here was ours:</p>
<ol>
<li> Strength in planned field (Engineering : Proxy we used was ranked high or reasonably high by various sources and/or DH's word-of-mouth (since it was his field).</li>
<li> Range of selectivity: Always, from the get-go, focused on this, using the usual suspects of SAT ranges, GPA, % in top 10% hs, etc.</li>
<li> "Roundedness:" Offerings in the full range of Arts/Sciences/Business in case of "change of mind" and for possible Engineering/Business curriculum if no "change of mind."</li>
<li> Mid-range size. For whatever reason, DS did not want large U nor v. small.</li>
<li> Social scene and atmosphere: Did not want heavy Greek, did not want heavy preppy, probably would not have wanted major counterculture scene (but we didn't visit any of those). Did not care, one way or the other, about major sports scene (and other criteria mostly eliminated that).</li>
<li> Setting and architecture: Did not want isolated. Did not want "no campus urban." Preferred easy access to a vibrant city, but not a deal-killer. DS responded to campus architecture quite a bit and had to feel the school looked like his "vision" of a college. Ultimately, he did not apply to the one he felt most beautiful, but the school had to make the cut on this measure.</li>
<li> Gut check: the visits really sorted it out for him. The overnight at the chosen school confirmed it (after acceptance).</li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks EADad, this is a great topic. The feeling my S and I have right now is a fish flopping on the deck! He kindof has an idea of what he wants, not sure if he's applying to the type of school that will serve his needs.</p>
<p>He wants a good engineering school with a fair ratio of men and women. He'd like it to be somewhere that he can pursue outdoor activities. And since his scores and GPA are good but not great, affordability is a great concern. I don't think he will be able to find everything on his list but he has to try to figure out which priority is the most important.</p>
<p>I think our process was not as well defined as those of you who have already posted. S1 started out thinking engineering, so we focused visits etc. on engineering schools at first. Knowing him, I thought he should think about math or physics instead, although of course I had to wait until he came up with that idea himself! He's just more theoretical than applied. Once he decided to open the door to the math/physics world, it threw all the previous thinking out the window -- LACs, Ivy's, etc were now under consideration. </p>
<p>In the end, the criteria became:
1. Academic reputation -- he just would not be happy at any school which wasn't really rigorous.
2. Selectivity -- only used to validate criteria #1, and to help determine the reach/match/safety schools.
3. Merit aid -- which, darn it, we ended up not using.
4. Location -- he applied all over the country. Harvey Mudd in So. Cal. was probably the farthest, but would have been a very good fit for him. In the end, it came down to 3 east coast schools, and he is now 2 hours away.
5. Fit/feeling -- he stayed at the 3 schools in April, just to see how comfortable he was at each. They were all wonderful, and it was a painful process to watch him trying to decide. H and I had our preference, but knew that it needed to be his choice.</p>
<p>Footnote -- He is in his element now. I had the pleasure of pointing out that we were right in encouraging this school. Sometimes, mom really does know best!</p>
<ol>
<li>Reputation</li>
<li>Location: near major airport, same time zone preferable, not too far from "civilization", defined as restaurants & shopping.</li>
<li>Size: Ideally mid sized, does not want too small</li>
<li>Challenging, but not overly so. She values her social life-eliminated schools like Princeton, Swat, UCh</li>
<li>Decent # of Jewish students. She is in distinct minority here and very active in our synagogue.</li>
<li>She is undecided about major or career so just wants school with lots of options.</li>
</ol>
<p>Program far and the way was the most important. </p>
<p>He knew from the time in was in sixth grade that he wanted to make films. He doesn't care for New York City so NYU was out. We're not from California so UCLA was impossioble. USC was his first choice, especially after seeing it, and once he go into film school that was it. He went with the understanding that if he changed his mind about film he would transfer back east to either UVA or UNC. After seeing FSU and going through what he regarded as an unpleasant interview for their film school he declined their offer.</p>
<p>Two kids, two sets of priorities.
Daughter - Education major</p>
<ol>
<li>Fit - Wanted a non-party atmosphere</li>
<li>Study Abroad - wanted a school where this could be worked in to an education major.</li>
<li>Location - Wanted at least 2 hours from home, rural semi-rural</li>
<li>Price - Had to have excellent merit/fin aid.</li>
<li>Challenging - Found that she is most comfortable with smart kids and those with excellent work ethic.</li>
</ol>
<p>Results? Is now a junior in a tiny Christian College in Illinois majoring in Elementary ed (will be certified k-9) and Sociology/Anthropology. Hopes to do a study abroad in Peru this Spring. Is a member of the college honor society with 3.7 gpa. Excellent financial aid package and loves her college.</p>
<p>Son, HS senior - Avg. Student - NOT CC avg, real world average!
His priorities:</p>
<ol>
<li>Program - deep Computer program, especially interested in game design but would like this in LAC setting.</li>
<li>Location - Suprised himself when he realized this was important to him. Semi-rural, but close to bigger town/city.</li>
<li>Fit - geeky, but not too geeky. Minimal frats, also considering Sister's college.</li>
<li>Price - Needs merit or financial aid</li>
<li>Size - Not that important. Right now plans to apply to colleges ranging in size of around 600 to 14,000.</li>
</ol>
<p>Well, S is only a Junior and has only recently started to get somewhat focused -- but I have had some surprises along the way. To use edad's phrasing, I use "we in a literal sense". As the dad who loves personal research projects (and often drive my family crazy), I talked to S and got some general parameters and ideas about what he was looking for (location, size, programs, etc.). Used his GPA, Sophomore PSAT score and a Sophomore ACT score to try to develop some very rough guidelines of "likely admit", "target" and "reach". Put together an initial list that was quite large, and we've used an occasional visit, DVD's, websites, etc. to winnow it down. A couple of surprises:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>After a few visits to different sized schools, S announced that he didn't like the larger schools that had a "hustle and bustle feel". This caused a major rewrite of "the list". </p></li>
<li><p>S wants a school in the South. Fine. S refuses to believe that Kentucky and southern Maryland could be considered "the South". Another re-write (though I'm keeping Centre College on the list as long as possible). </p></li>
<li><p>Although he has never played, S has determined that he wants a school with a "Saturday football" feel. Dad looks at list and realizes that a good 1/3 of the schools don't even HAVE a football team. More editing. </p></li>
<li><p>DW, after initially saying that the school must be "east of the Mississippi", keeps ratcheting down the distance that she's comfortable with. Taken together with point 2, this has reduced the location list to VA, NC, SC, TN (plus Centre -- I ain't giving up until he at least consents to look at it). Well, at least the list is becoming manageable :)</p></li>
<li><p>So, to make a long story short, based on academics, test scores, school size, football and location requirements we actually have a pretty manageable list of schools. Next step: campus visits and college fairs to search for that elusive "fit". Have no doubt that there will be more surprises along the way.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>lderochi,
I like your project oriented approach, but good luck with your "manageable" list. My D's focus and ideas changed many, many times during the process. In fact the whole process of selection turned out to be very helpful for her. She started with some vague ideas, looked at different schools and possible majors, and made a lot of changes before things started to gel.</p>
<p>My D's first priority was academic rigor. She did not define that as meaning "elite" or "highly selective" schools, but, as she put it, "a place where you don't have to dumb down to be accepted". Then the whole thing became an evolving process. We were in NYC during her sophomore year for another reason, so we went to NYU and Columbia. From this she decided she liked campuses that were in a city, but with a distinct identity from the city. Then, hubby had business trips and she tagged along and looked at schools in those cities. More realizations: Didn't want a Catholic school, didn't want to be west of the Rockies. She had already figured she didn't want to be south of the Mason-Dixon line (I have no idea why). This was winter of Junior year. Also visited a very small academically rigorous LAC...too remote and too small and, though not Catholic, too far to the right in her mind. One other criteria I didn't find out until we were already at the school visiting: NO ALL WOMEN'S SCHOOLS.</p>
<p>Then, after this early exploration, she decided that she wanted an enclosed urban or suburban, fairly northern (wanted 4 distinct seasons), very rigorous place which embraced double major in disparate fields (music & hard science). Got on the web, used USNWR guide, came up with ~30 schools who offered above criteria in our minds. She sent a slew of e-mails to admissions officers asking re: how a double major in the above would work. Got responses from all, widely varied: Not possible, possible but in 6 years, possible but in 5 years, and yeah, baby, bring it on. Looked closer at those schools in the last 2 categories including 3 programs that offered combined BA/MM in 5 years. Toured some more. Made her list. Mom made her add local state U as financial safety.</p>
<p>For me (not in order):
1. Location- I didn't want to go further South, nor did I want to leave the East coast. Suburban campus.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Programs- The college HAD to have an awesome biology/ecology program, because I know that's what I want to do. I also carefully checked out course offerings. I also wanted a large variety of other majors. </p></li>
<li><p>Size- Anything between 2000 and 8000 students was ok.</p></li>
<li><p>Reputation- I'm not a supporter of rankings, but I did want a school with good graduate school placement. </p></li>
<li><p>Financial aid- I needed quite a bit. All of my schools were need-blind except the state schools and JHU.</p></li>
<li><p>Campus- I'd much rather be outside than inside, so a nice campus (and surroundings) was greatly desired. Good weather was also a requirement.</p></li>
<li><p>Overall "fit"- A visit was needed for most of my schools. Most of the schools I visited ended up being totally different than I had expected.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>it is interesting-
I only visited 4 schools with my daughter- two of them multiple times ( accepted students day- prospie day etc)
She visited about 5 schools with her junior class.
Pretty much all the schools were as advertised, although some characteristics were even more pronounced- which still made visiting useful</p>
<p>Seems to me that the situation is vastly different if you are looking for a strong specialized program (music and engineering are mentioned above) or a specific combination of programs, which was our case. That cut the list down to just a handful of schools. Once that list was made, the following were crucial in the decision:</p>
<ol>
<li>Strength of the programs, especially internship opportunities, facilities, and reputation.</li>
<li>Merit money (My - the Dad - priority, not necessarily my son's)</li>
<li>Campus "feel" - We all knew when we stepped on campus that this was the place.</li>
<li>"Recruiting" - After my son's two interviews, the school went out of their way to let him know they wanted him there.</li>
<li>The strength of the honors college he was accepted into, the individualized attention he would be getting, and the opportunity to design his own curriculum for the degree.</li>
</ol>
<p>Academically challenging and well-regarded**
High # of kids on campus all four years (rich campus life)**
Not a boozy/ Greek-heavy culture**
Friendly and happy kids; environment where she'd "belong"**
D-3 Tennis**
Coed environment**
LAC or intimate Univ-- w/ personal attention, minimal red tape
art, humanities strengths
Flexible curriculum
Location</p>
<p>** = highest priorities.</p>
<p>H & I really wanted her to go to a distant location as a growth experience but this was not as strong a priority for D.</p>
<p>digmedia brings up another good point. "Recruiting" was not in our world view when we started. DS is not a recruitable athlete and, while an excellent student with a strong set of music ECs, wasn't a superstar in those arenas either. Nevertheless, he <em>was</em> recruited after apps in, by two schools. One was a school he was never that interested in, sort of a safety, applied because he got the streamlined-no essay-no fee package. Recruiting overtures, which were heavy (by our perception with nothing to compare to), had no effect. The other was the school which he loved from the get-go but was vying with another for "first choice." Recruiting made a BIG difference; in fact, all the difference.</p>
<p>location- urban/suburban- easy access- west coast
size- smallish- under 10,000 req- under 5,000 ideal
student body- coed- open minded- intellectual- little greek/heavy team sport influence- more common for kids to shop at value village than A & F
cost- 100% of need met or merit aid to bring cost to EFC
strong support for proposed major( bio)- but opportunities to use music rooms- art studio as well- good library
Comfortable living environment- nice dorms- decent food-opportunities for entertainment on and off campus-
quirky
what clinched it
* must love dogs*
tee shirts that shock the grandparents
good support resources
pretty decent food for a college
they had (mac) classics in cafeteria to check mail.
good coffee</p>
<p>Our process, for better or worse, was like this.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Since D was one of top students in class, assumption in our family due to my background is that anyone who is one of the top students would want to go to one of the top academic environments, defined as having top professors, top resources, and other top students. D agreed. Had worked hard in high school and wanted what she perceived as the reward. Wanted the bright kids to also be the social mainstream.</p></li>
<li><p>Her chances of admission were confirmed as a possiblity by GC.</p></li>
<li><p>GC gave us list full of LACs, thinking that would be what she wanted. Oh well.</p></li>
<li><p>D had spent 6 weeks in NYC previously. Wanted to be near NYC. Is a redhead, so wanted to avoid sun-heavy environments which require perpetual sunscreen. D had spent 4 years in a small private high school. Thought she wanted bigger. </p></li>
<li><p>D was not yet sure of major so school needed to be good across the board and focused on undergraduate learning. Sort of like an LAC but bigger and with serious science research opportunities in case she went the science route.</p></li>
<li><p>Next step, tour. Visited top academic environments, (mostly fitting her profile of close to NYC and mid-size. Tried on two small (Williams, Wesleyan to cover the polical spectrum) one midwest (Northwestern) to test assumptions. </p></li>
<li><p>We learned the following: Confirmed she wanted mid-sized on East Coast. However, also learned that if she didn't get in to top top East Coast, given the weather (hail and rain in New Haven), she would rather stay in CA. Also learned she wanted to be with "regular kids" (defined as don't already know at 18 that they want to study remote Scottish dialects). </p></li>
<li><p>Then thought where did she have the actual best chance of admission. Chose to apply to Harvard although not her particular favorite (thought we had a legacy:)), Princeton due to "regularness" of kids and beautiful campus (legacy), Columbia (loved NYC and her stats were above average), Stanford (school has close relationship and it's home), UCB (best UC), UCSB (family in Santa Barbara). </p></li>
<li><p>Went to admit weekends to Princeton and Stanford. Learned she wanted to be the social one amongst the serious vs. the serious one amongst the social - as she saw it, and that Stanford was too close to home, too familiar and full of blonde girls with ponytails, and a little too big (bikes required).</p></li>
<li><p>All's well that ends well, however, in retrospect, using large state schools in CA as safeties for a kid who liked Columbia and Princeton best was a mistake. We should have looked at for example Wash U, Rice, etc.</p></li>
</ol>