Second year pre-med

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
1

<p>So in my first year first semester, I couldn't fit bio lab, bio, and chem lab in my schedule, so I didn't take Bio 2010 and the lab. But 1st year second semester, I fit in chem lab and bio lecture, but not bio 2040 lab...so basically I'm going to have to take bio 2010 and bio lab 2030 my second year, and take 2040 lab during second semester second year. However, I also need to fit in orgo/orgo lab with all this.
So second year first semester:</p>

<p>Bio2010
Bio2030 (lab)
orgo chem
orgo chem lab</p>

<p>...is this too much? I've heard people tell me to take orgo lab during the summer, but some people say med schools don't really like that, and I'm not sure financially about whether I can take classes during the summer...</p>

2

<p>D is a 3rd year premed double major. Her first year she took Gen Chem/Gen Chem Lab (1st semester), Orgo/Orgo Lab (2nd semester) – both 80 series. She also took physics both semesters. Her second year she had Bio/Bio Lab, the other two semesters of chem/chem labs, Calc/Stat…etc. She did this as a year round athlete and member of a sorority. My point is that it can definitely be done, but you’re going to have to work very hard to maintain your GPA. I would personally advise against taking the labs in the summer. Certain requirements like Calc, biochem (for some med schools), Engl (for some med schools) can be taken in the summer. Some, however, contend it doesn’t matter what courses you take in the summer so who knows. Good luck to you!</p>

3

<p>If you go the summer route, consider taking electives to lighten your course-load during the semesters if you think your schedule may be too difficult.</p>

4

<p>Take orgo lab during the year. You’ll be fine. Bio labs aren’t hard at all. Make sure you stay on top of your work and start studying 2-3 weeks before the final for orgo: there’s a lot of material to absorb but that’s the hard part. The material in orgo (whether it be lecture or lab) is not conceptually difficult. The difficult part is practice!</p>

<p>A comment on 80 series chem: If you are premed, don’t bother. It’s not worth it. It’s meant for those staying in chemistry/making chemistry a career. While JC’s daughter did it all (kudos), that is not the norm. You can get a better grade with less work in the 40s series. And as unfortunate as it is, GPA is king (or oligarch) in the premed world. I’m not saying that you couldn’t do 80s series and physics and bio, etc but we’re oftentimes more average than we think. :)</p>

5

<p>Wow, the above is terrible advice. Definitely take O-chem lab over the summer. UVA’s 400 series O-Chem lab is notorious for dishing out all sorts of bad grades. You are considered worthy of TA’ing the course if you get a B, not even an A. That alone should raise a flag in your mind. </p>

<p>Furthermore, the grading system is whack. Here’s how it works. You are ranked in lab section based on your pre-labs, post-lab questions, lab reports and the lab final. You are then given a ranking based on your scores. Your ranking does not guarantee a certain grade however, it only determines who will get the highest grade in that section (i.e. a ranking of 1 does not necessarily mean you get an A, you could be rank 1 and still get as low as a B). How can this be you may ask? Well, it turns out that the final exam scores of your lab section are what sets the grade distribution for your lab section. This means if no one gets an A on the final in your section, no one gets an A in that section. In theory, if everyone in the section gets an A on the final, then everyone could get a A, but that never happens. The O-Chem final during the school year is the most unfair test at UVA. If you don’t believe me look at an upper-classman’s 400 series O-Chem lab manual. You can see from the practice test he doesn’t even space the answers out. </p>

<p>Note, the one advantage of the 800 series is an easier O-Chem lab. Anyway, bottom-line, if you are serious about your pre-med aspirations at UVA and can afford the in-state tuition over the summer, you take O-Chem lab over the summer after 2nd year. Believe me, the most competitive pre-med students I know at UVA did this.</p>

6

<p>Shinee1, do whatever is best for you. You mentioned money concerns, so my post was mostly to reassure you that you would be okay if you took orgo lab during the year; I stand by that.</p>

<p>There’s a line Grisham says at the beginning of biochem each fall: “If you study 10 hours each week for my class, you should expect to get a C.” Everyone thought he was joking until the first exam, and then we learned the hard way that he was dead serious. 10 hours a week per class in med school, and you should expect to fail.</p>

<p>The orgo lab grading system seems a little odd at first glance, but it does make sense. It takes into account both your individual work throughout the semester and your final performance; you can’t slack or bomb at the last minute and expect to still get an A (remember A = well above average, C = average). If you’re already near the top of the grading scale, then your A will be yours. If you aren’t, help each other out in your section to bring up the average and get a good grade: the system is meant to discourage you from cheating/colluding during the year on lab reports, prelab questions, etc but to encourage you to study together for the final. It is effective in doing that for people who figure it out. The people who understand the system are also the ones who take out a fresh sheet of scratch paper for the practice exam at the back of the manual.</p>

<p>Again, start studying in advance for orgo lab. Go over each lab, take an initial set of notes, and write the mechanisms whenever you can (for muscle memory) and say the steps outloud when you do it. The two weeks before Thanksgiving, start to really review those notes and learn the material as much as you can; connect the mechanisms to the benchwork you did during your actual lab time. Allot a certain number of hours everyday for just orgo lab (I had 2 set aside during weekdays, off Fri/Sat, 4 on Sundays). Take a break during Thanksgiving. During finals time, you’ll just be reviewing and good to go. </p>

<p>I was talking to two med school adcoms last year (both from top 10 programs) at a med school fair, and hunt’s class came up. They chuckled and said that they knew about it, and if you could make it through that, you would make it through med school.</p>

<p>The “most competitive” pre-meds almost all got As/A+s if they were in Hunt’s classes. Why? They did the work, just like they do the work in every other class, and just like they will do in future classes. That’s what indicates to me that Jc40’s daughter will do well if she goes to med school: she excels and does well (and will continue to do well) because she does the work.</p>

<p>If you need more advice on this, shoot me a PM.</p>

7

<p>Ok so I know this is a little off topic…but the 80 series organic lab is not necessarily “easier” than the 40 series. I would argue (as expected) that it is harder than the 40s, but the truth is that it really depends on the professor.</p>

<p>Last spring, I took the first semester of 80 series organic lab with McDonald, who applied the SAME BELL CURVE to the 80 series class. As you can guess, that class was pretty miserable because no matter how well everyone wrote their reports, half the class still got Cs/Ds/Fs (even though these were the “smart” chemistry students). </p>

<p>However, this past fall I took the second semester of 80s lab and the curve was a little more generous…so it really depends on the professor. Point being, if you are not a chem major/love science/want to go into chemistry, I would definitely not take the 80s lab.</p>

8

<p>My D is considering W&L or UVA for premed. I was wondering which is best path to Med school? Any advantage of one to the other getting grades needed?</p>

9

<p>OP— Orgo is killer at UVA, and the lab is worse than the class… Do not overload your schedule.</p>

10

<p>Hopemed, I can’t comment on W&L as I have literally never looked at their program.</p>

<p>I think you need to be aware from the get go that your grades need to stay high, and you have to do what you can to ensure that. This is true no matter where you go. For most schools, most likely including W&L, it will be easier to get good grades. UVa makes you work for them. Like I said above, I think those who truly work hard will be fine wherever they go. And UVa prepares you well for the challenges of med school by expecting you to work hard from the beginning Despite knowing the pros/cons of UVa and its premed program, I would do it again in a heartbeat.</p>

<p>There is a fairly large premed population at UVa, but I’ve found it whittles down after your second year (post orgo), and then again after people take their MCAT. One of the things UVa applicants generally have going for them is that we have a fairly good reputation in med school interviews, ie people don’t think we’re socially inept and we work hard. That reputation, I’m sure, has helped many people. We’ve generally had a high success rate for med school acceptances as well. I couldn’t say the same about W&L.</p>

<p>I don’t want to comment on the state of the healthy professionals advising office because I think it might be a little unfair to them. When I was there, the office was changing premed advisors often, and it wasn’t the most inspiring place. If your office can’t hold onto an individual, it’s not a good sign. At the med school fair I talked about above, I was talking to one adcom about our prehealth office, and she just patted my arm and said “We know, don’t worry.” Since they no longer write a recommendation letter, I don’t really see them as necessary. Full disclosure: I am farther along in the premed game, so I have a little more knowledge/experience than your average bear. If you are just starting out (ie a first year), you will need a lot more guidance. The prehealth office can give you that.</p>

<p>Having noted those things, I think the prehealth office has stabilized a bit and they are improving. I looked at their website the other day and there are more resources; there are mock interviews and information sessions and other nifty things to help improve your application. So they are building back the office. The main advisor has been there for a little while now, and it looks like she is staying put. I assume that’s what’s going to happen in the future, and I would look at that as the future of the office. You have to start somewhere.</p>

<p>**tl;dr ** There are pros/cons wherever you go. UVa prepares you well for med school challenges by expecting you to work hard. UVa’s prehealth office has not been the strongest, but they are improving a lot. Come to UVa, you’ll have a great time.</p>

11

<p>I apologize for the amount of text. Superficiality was never my strong suit. :)</p>

12

<p>Thanks for very good specific imfomation db123. Why not take Orgo/lab summer school elsewhere ?</p>

13

<p>You can do that as long as you take it a 4 year institution (as opposed to a CC), but the general preference for where you take your classes goes: home institution during academic year > home institution summer > other 4 yr college >>> community college.</p>

14

<p>hopemed: for summer school, if it must be elsewhere, I highly suggest taking electives (the history, language, whatever) classes. Can result in a lighter load during the semesters and future schools won’t mind as much as taking Orgo/chem/math/bio at a CC (as in History @ CC is better than Chem @ CC)</p>

15

<p>You can also try taking orgo + lab at a 4 year college near you during the summer.</p>

<p>This can save you money and a headache from UVA orgo…</p>

<p>Also, avoid orgo lab here like death. I don’t know what other posters are saying, but trust me. Some of the smartest people I know have gotten As in lecture but Cs in lab. That essentially gives you 12 credits of a 3.0 when averaged (lecture and lab are 3 credits each X 2 semesters).</p>

16

What do you think about genetics,physics and neurobiology at the same time for UVA?

17

My daughter took courses outside of her major during the summer to lighten the load while she was taking very challenging science classes during the school year. At her college, she was able to take online community college classes over the summer that only cost her $330 a class, and which left her time to work full time over the summer. She also found out in advance which semesters had the hardest science classes, and saved her AP credits to lighten the load for those semesters. I don’t know UVa’s policies about online summer classes, because my son didn’t take any while at UVa.