Seeking advice regarding math sequence for average math kid

Parents Forum
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<p>mathmom,</p>

<p>You’re absolutely right. It was actually a really good thing for older brother to go far away to college. My son has been able to come into his own and they actually had a wonderful visit when oldest was home briefly this summer.</p>

<p>Penny, yes, we’ll see where UCSD and SDSU are next fall. It’s hard (but definitely not impossible) for independent homeschoolers like my son to get into these schools because they are so “in the box” and he, and we, are not; so, it might be better for him to just transfer if that’s what ultimately is best for him.</p>

<p>His blood sugars have actually stabilized more lately, so he might be slowing down in his growth. He’s always had excellent A1Cs but that’s because we micromanaged. He’s been managing his diabetes almost completely on his own in the past six months. It’s not always perfect, for sure (like when he gets hungry during the night-he’s very thin and always hungry!-and decides to eat and give insulin). The hardest thing lately is that he tends towards dehydration (ended up in the ER this summer) and has to remember to stay hydrated.</p>

<p>Cromette, that’s encouraging! Would you mind sharing what school your D got into? PM me if you would prefer.</p>

<p>I have all but decided to just stay the course and let my son finish with Calc I. </p>

<p>Ha-ha, now I am plotting how to get enough physics for him to take the Physics SAT II exam next December! He’ll be able to take both semesters of the non-calc based physics but by mid-year, won’t have enough knowledge to take the SAT II. I’m thinking MOOC class during the summer. Since he’s used to schooling year round because of his slower paced lifestyle, it’s not a big deal to him. He still had plenty of time for his biggest EC, cello, and was able to bowl in a league, and hang out with friends and play his favorite video game a lot. :-)</p>

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<p>Why you don’t let him continue with AoPS? I think AoPS classes are more rigorous and will help him more in college. My son took CC classes in 10 and 11th grade and he thought he did not learn much although he aced all the exams. I regret that I did not let him continue EPGY classes.</p>

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<p>Mechanical Engineering at Texas A & M. Academic admits graduate in the top 25% of their class with a 1300 SAT (CR+M), and a minimum 600 in each.</p>

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<p>An “average” math kid has a 500 on the SAT, not a 690. He is hardly average.</p>

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<p>“He took the SAT I last spring as a sophomore and got a 690 in math.”<br>
Wow! He is doing great. He will be just fine. You have no worries.</p>

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<p>coolweather,</p>

<p>I am switching him because, in order to take physics at the CC, he will need the prerequisite which is trig. He could do AoPS next summer, some fun class like Probability or Python, but I don’t see another way to get him into the physics classes next year. </p>

<p>I actually did have him email Harvey Mudd (my favorite school but he would not likely stand a chance of being admitted nor could we probably afford it), and the admissions officer was very kind in his response and said basically that it would be fine to do CC instead of AoPS and in fact, seemed logical to allow my son to get experience in a college setting. I was surprised but glad at their response.</p>

<p>I realize a 690 to the outside world is above average but we’re on College Confidential here and that’s the audience I was addressing, not the outside world. :-)</p>

<p>A&M sounds like a great school (and do they have merit scholarships for OOS?) but it’s so huge and I really don’t know if my son would wilt in the heat and humidity. We live in such a mild climate and he still has struggles with dehydration. But, I’ve never been there-only been to Dallas in February-so I don’t really know what the weather’s like during the school year.</p>

<p>Oldest son and I visited UTD which I really liked and he was seriously considering for the McDermott Scholars Program. I know they have merit, good merit, but I think to get the top AES (or to be competitive) one has to have 1490 M and CR. He’s at 1420 right now, so not there yet.</p>

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<p>But some people on CC really do have kids that are average. To go to MIT your son only needs a 700 in math. A 690 as a sophomore is hardly something to worry about.</p>

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<p>Some of the merit scholarships at Texas A&M come with waivers of out-of-state additional tuition: <a href=“https://scholarships.tamu.edu/information/tuition_waiver.aspx[/url]”>Home - SFAID;

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<p>Thank you, ucb. I knew that UTD had the waiver but didn’t know about A&M since I’ve never looked into it. There’s much to like about that school, IMO.</p>

<p>That’s a good point, Limewine. (But not only could this son never get into MIT, it wouldn’t be the right fit at all-far too intense. It’s a great fit for my oldest but not for this son)</p>

<p>I wish there was an affordable Rose-Hulman nearby. From what I have read, that would be a more gentle and nurturing environment for my son, but still have the smart and interesting STEM kids. (The people, btw, are <em>the</em> biggest draw to my son at MIT. It is an incredibly vibrant campus-not perfect by any means-but I did witness the energy and it was something)</p>

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<p>Op…please excuse me for being so dense. I’m sure there is history about your son that others are aware of. You say he wouldn’t go to MIT not because he is " average" but because it is too intense. If you feel that your son should not apply to MIT level schools ( which I can understand are not for everyone regardless of ability) then why the concern over the level of calculus? </p>

<p>Am I seriously misinformed ( haha, I’ve been guilty of this) or do top engineering colleges have “secret admission standards?” Calc 1 and a 700 math SAT seem to be the agreed upon necessary credentials. I know this is true for MIT. I am seriously wondering if MIT has"lower" standards (based strictly on academics) than other universities. </p>

<p>Forgive me if there are other academic issues ( that i am unaware of) that might be the problem. It just seems that if he has had health issues, his academic achievement is stellar and “good enough.”</p>

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<p>There seems to be a common misconception around these forums that most selective universities require high school calculus to be admitted, even though many of these universities offer calculus 1 courses (or even remedial math courses or slow-paced calculus courses like Math Ma-Mb at Harvard). Only a few schools like Caltech and Harvey Mudd structure their curricula to require the student to have taken calculus before entering.</p>

<p>Even for engineering, if you look at the sample course plans for engineering majors at schools like Berkeley and Georgia Tech, you will find that the math begins with calculus 1, indicating that the entering student needs to be ready for calculus, but does not have to have taken it before.</p>

<p>Of course, if a student is intending a math-heavy major, it is best to continue to the highest level of math available to him/her in high school, rather than stopping earlier. But what the top level of math achievable in high school is for the student usually depends on a math placement decision made back in 7th or 8th grade, which is not really under the student’s control now.</p>

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<p>Sbjdorlo, August, September, and part of October will be very warm, and it’s a big campus. But the buildings all have the AC blasting, and a bicycle gets D3 back inside pretty quickly. :)</p>

<p>She’s loving it (second day of classes, but she’s been up there for two weeks). Yes, it is a huge school, but it’s weird, in a way it feels like one big family.</p>

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<p>Limewine,</p>

<p>I think until we absolutely rule out a school like Harvey Mudd, it makes sense to work hard and try to get as far along as my son can. If it comes to fall of senior year and it’s clear my son doesn’t have the test scores and the grades to be competitive for a school like that, or my son has an epiphany about what he might want to do for college and it’s not engineering, then it really won’t matter…but because we don’t know what his future holds, I’ll encourage him to keep moving forward. Hope that makes sense. </p>

<p>UCB, I think I am/was trying to rectify, not an earlier decision, per se, but trying to play catch up because of my son’s meandering ways (not totally within anyone’s control). He did AoPS Algebra in the summer after 8th grade and started geometry in 9th. Had I chosen a class with deadlines instead of a self-paced curriculum, we would not be having this discussion. It took him two years to finish geometry. Had he set a normal pace, he would be doing trig/pre-calc/calc I/calc II but at the time, I didn’t know he would be considering engineering as a major. Oh well! </p>

<p>Cromette,</p>

<p>I have heard that A&M is like a big family. It appeals to me for many reasons and I actually think my son would like it, as well. But, he isn’t to the place yet where he is thinking too much about what he would like in a campus since he’s only been on two college campuses. We’ll try to do some visits in the spring, at least to So. Cal. schools. And he and I are visiting MIT in October to see my oldest son. I don’t think we’ll look at any schools there other than MIT 'cause we’ll be there but it actually might be fun for him to sit in on an engineering class (though it will be over his head, I’m sure).</p>

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<p>Thank you Sb, your reply was helpful. I agree your son should continue to work hard to achieve what he can. He is lucky to have parents that support him and provide opportunity. It is great that you are working hard to keep doors open for him.</p>

<p>I guess I just get bothered by the CC mindset that it’s all ( college admissions at top universities) a crapshoot and that many outstanding students must be average. There are a lot more schools out there besides HYPMS that have amazingly intelligent students. I’m certain that the top 50 could easily find geniuses in every field.</p>

<p>I hope you son does well and finds a great place to further his studies. Just make sure he never hears you use the words average, regardless of what his older brother has accomplished.</p>

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<p>^ This. Please don’t hold your older son as the standard. It just makes the younger sibling feel inadequate. (I’m speaking as a former younger sibling as well as aunt of such siblings). I’m not saying you’re doing this but it’s very easy to do this.</p>

<p>When your older son says something like oh trig is easy, what he means is trig was easy for him. </p>

<p>When you visit MIT, I think it would be nice to visit other schools instead of sitting in a MIT class. This comes very close to setting MIT as the standard by which all other schools are measured. There are so many colleges in Boston, take a walk through one. See what is there aside from MIT (and Harvard).</p>

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<p>Why not look at Northeastern too while you are in the Boston area - it’s more practical, goal oriented approach with lots of coops might be a good contrast. It provides a great education, and there’s no shame in feeling that its approach might be a better fit.</p>

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<p>Cal Poly SLO offers architecturial engineering, one of the few in the country. Smaller school, great locale and temps, not too far from San Diego and they did meet daughter’s FA need years ago. After reading your younger son’s profile seemed like SLO might be a good fit. Harvey Mudd as well, but that might be more of a reach and more intense than SLO. Love SLO.</p>

<p>Hope that helps.</p>

<p>And if he is starting at DVC they have great transfer rates to Cal and Davis. Davis is another fav of mine, depending on the major. Still for this son I would again recommend SLO for fit and $$.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Slackermom,</p>

<p>I think my son would just enjoy seeing an engineering class and since he’ll be right on campus, it would be easier to just go to an MIT class. As far as I know, he/we have no interest in him applying to East Coast schools, so it wouldn’t really make sense to try and get transport to various schools, though Northeastern would be a school that seems about the right level for him, but cost-wise, would be totally out of the picture.</p>

<p>SLO is definitely on the list but again, cost-wise, is probably out of the picture. Even if my son got a Cal Grant, the cost of housing is more than what he might be expected to pay out of pocket from a school that gives great need-based aid. Any Cal State or UC school is out of the picture pretty much except for the local schools.</p>

<p>My husband is retiring at the end of this year and we need to figure out a new way to make income for one or both of us, so cost is probably the most important thing besides fit of a college. Unfortunately, what I think would <em>fit</em> my son (smaller but STEM related schools) seems out of reach either by admit number or by cost.</p>

<p>I don’t think it would be wise of my son to borrow much unless he was coming out of a good college with a good degree.</p>

<p>So, yes, bottom line of what I was trying to accomplish: to help my son become more competitive in college admissions.</p>

<p>And I do get what you all are saying regarding comparisons. Both my older sons are members of an organization that serves profoundly gifted young people, so I know that my middle son has great potential. And yes, he did live in the shadow of his older brother but I have always seen how exceedingly creative he is. Someone once called him a black pearl-very apt. He is a hidden gem but is coming into his own. He has always been his biggest set back since he thought he was stupid for a very long time.</p>

<p>One of my biggest faults is that, coming from a family with moderate income and now an uncertain income, I often let monetary issues dictate my decisions. So, in deciding whether or not to “push” my son to take the accelerated trig class, I was thinking future/bottom line/colleges that give lots of need-based aid or great merit aid.</p>

<p>It’s hard not to do that.</p>

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<p>By implication this means that you cannot afford to contribute the federal methodology EFC that CSUs and UCs use, or that he/you are not comfortable with an ESC of $8,000 to $10,000 that is typically expected for students to come up with (from student loans and work earnings), although the commute range schools would be several thousand dollars less. Correct?</p>

<p>Have you run various schools’ net price calculators based on both pre-retirement and post-retirement incomes?</p>

<p>If that is really the financial situation, then he and you are likely going to be looking for either big merit scholarships, starting at community college and then transferring to a UC or CSU, or the very selective schools that do better at need-based financial aid than in-state UC or CSU.</p>

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<p>UCB,</p>

<p>I have not run calculators on post retirement income because our goal is to make up the loss of income. Now that we know apx. when my dh will retire (Dec 1) and how much he’ll get in pension (about 1/2 his income), we know the goal. My dh doesn’t have a degree and thus, it will be harder for him to find a job that pays well enough, particularly at age 55, but not impossible. We would prefer I stay home and homeschool but I do freelance work and will definitely look for part time work or more if need be.</p>

<p>Our EFC last year was around, oh boy, maybe $9400? I’ve run a bunch of calculators. I assumed, from what I’ve been trying to understand, that schools like SLO won’t meet need but rather, we’d qualify for Cal Grant A, which seems to cover tuition or close to that; of course that can change. So, we’d still need to come up with what, maybe 12K? That seems out of our league. </p>

<p>This son has a 529 with about 8K in it. That could cover the first year. Dh does have a small account that he could tap into after retirement that’s about 8K, though he had planned for us to live on that should we not find a job. If we used that, though, then I could see my son borrowing 10K total for the remaining two years. I guess I’d be ok with that.</p>

<p>Really, our mindset against borrowing comes from a lot of different places. I would feel comfortable with my oldest borrowing money but not so comfortable with this one borrowing.</p>

<p>So yes, you described it exactly right, UCB. We know plenty of folks who’ve gone the CC to local college route and that might be what my son will do. I just don’t want to close any doors yet when all the information isn’t on the table.</p>