Choosing the colleges by hearsay and "reputation".

Parents Forum
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<p>I have some mixed feelings about the subject and would like some experienced people's insight.</p>

<p>My D is looking for the way of narrowing down her college list and since we couldn't find the time to visit all the campuses she might be interested in, some of them are becoming excluded by "hearsay" - even though she might have planned to apply somewhere, she changes her mind after reading or hearing something unfavorable about the place. </p>

<p>When it applies to some remote out-of-state random school, I dont' mind and consider such a way of college selection completely justified.</p>

<p>But when it comes to some good in-state schools, which are relatively easy to visit and there are some objective reasons at least to consider them (as the financial safeties, for example) - how would you feel if your kids shun the places because of the "reputation"? Would you insist that they, at the very least, visit the places? Or would you deside that there is a reason behind each school's reputation and if your kid feels s/he wouldn't be happy at such a place then s/he, probably, won't?</p>

<p>I'm trying to convince my D to visit some So. Cal. schools, and while agreeing to either investigate (visit) some of them - or just apply without visiting (and look at them closely, if accepted), my D completely refuses to even come close to others, with the reputations of "party school" or "preppy/jock school" ... or, on the opposite, "untisocial/commuter school". (All that - in addition to her general dislike of So. Cal ;)). I feel that it's unwise not to explore all the realistic and convenient options (in-state safety schools or the reputable school which is known to be generous with scholarships), but, on the other hand, if my D wouldn't be happy there, I won't have a heart to push her there even for a full ride ;). But I feel it's important to see the picture with ones own eyes, not with some other people's eyes.</p>

<p>How would you approach such a situation? Would you insist on visiting some schools besides their "reputations"?</p>

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<p>Depends where she's getting her info from. If she knows several people who are attending a school (or have siblings attending a school) and they all agree on the reputation, I'd say it's justified. But if it's something she heard from one person, or from people who attended the school a long time ago, she should probably find out for herself.</p>

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<p>I would try to get her to visit at least one of the safeties. She might surprise herself when she sees it in person. </p>

<p>My friend's D had her sights set on our flagship state u. She knew it was not a sure thing (they get literally thousands of apps. from our region so lots of pretty good students don't get in) but refused to show interest in lower selectivity schools. After getting rejected, she ended up at a small private(had applied but never visited until after acceptance) that she would not even look at before the rejection. She is a very happy freshman now and glad she is not at the big state u. of her dreams.</p>

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<p>Myau, I found myself in actually just the opposite position. I visited only one school specifically before making my decision. I applied to four schools and the only one I specifically visisted was USMA. Eastern Illinois I had been to several times before for family things. Blackburn College my grandma drove me around one day while I was visiting her. I ended up choosing Southeast Missouri State University without having ever stepping foot on campus.</p>

<p>SEMO offered a scholarship that would be hard to pass up and it has a quality program in my field. I believe this is true because my high school athletic trainer graduated from there just a few years ago and another well-known athletic trainer and physical therapist in my area went there. Good enough for me:)</p>

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<p>I believe visits are overrated. Outside of special situations (a potential student who will be working closely with a coach or a specific music teacher, for example) I think that, in general, reputations are likely to give the student a more accurate picture of his likely experience.</p>

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<p>Myau -- I think that your post raises a different underlying issue: there are colleges that you would like your daughter to consider seriously because of geographic proximity or cost. I would suggest that you confront those issues head on: let your daughter know your financial limitations and how they impact her college choices, and also let her know of any reservations you have about distance from home. </p>

<p>I don't think you would get any headway pushing your daughter to visit a school that she had already decided she did not like based on "reputation"-- she'll arrive on campus with her mind made up and see what she wants to see. There are good reasons to select/reject a college and bad ones, but in the long run I don't think it matters all that much, because expectations always differ from reality no matter how well researched the college is. There are students who have selected colleges for ridiculous reasons with little research who are quite happy with their choice, and there are students who researched and visited repeatedly but then find themselves unhappy later on and transfer. </p>

<p>If your real concern is simply that you want your daughter closer to home -- if you confront that directly, you may find out that her real issue is that she wants to travel farther, and so is simply going to find reasons to reject the nearby campuses no matter what. That's why I think its best to be open and direct about what really concerns you, rather than attack the methodology used to reach a decision.</p>

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<p>Hm. I see your problem. You also don't want her to visit with a chip on her shoulder, or she could easily just gather data to support her claim. What if you get her to buy on the idea that Everybody, meaning Everybody, needs a safety school as a fallback. She's not likely to attend a safety school, but having applied there it will make her feel more easy as she awaits hearing from other matches and reaches.</p>

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<p>myau, We had this problem. We are from NJ. Our son would not consider any instate schools other than one of them, bc of hearsay. We did visit 2 instate schools. NJ schools, even instate, are expensive, so we just did not push the issue. Our son did not even apply to any instate schools. Looking back on it, I know that this was foolish.</p>

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<p>It IS my concern and she knows it as well as our financial limitations; she also knows that I'm not completely opposed to idea of her traveling farther - as long as it's something worthy. BTW, it looks like she has very mixed feelings about the most optimal distance from home, too. She actually already has some close-to-home safeties, but I'm not sure that that those places are exactly what she needs (one is in the middle of the nowhere and another might not be her match intellectually). I'd like her to have an open mind and explore more options on safeties - as well as she does on matches, reaches and super-reaches.</p>

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<p>She knows several people who desided NOT to attend these schools ;), even though they (on the opposite to her) visited the places and, sometimes, even applied there "just in case". She believes to the first impressions of her friends/aquantainces or to the general reputations and thinks it's enough to make a final desicion not to look there anymore.</p>

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<p>If it's any consolation, many kids have trouble being open-minded and making themselves look at safety schools, no matter where they are, because the fact is they hope they never have to go there and they'll do "better." Is she afraid if she applies to one and it's close, you'll end up persuading her to take it even over a more distant match or reach? If that's not true, then reassure her.</p>

<p>Just reread the entire thread, and appreciated Calmom's direction.</p>

<p>Pease don't take offense at my post here, but I am a bit confused. Of the nearby safeties, you'd like her to upgrade a bit because one is "in the middle of nowhere" and the other might not be her match intellectually. Perhaps she sees something you're missing in the "middle of nowhere" place. I went to one, and in fact if you love an isolated school you just don't CARE because the school itself becomes your "somewhere" with resources, people, and a vibe that keeps your attention for four good years. If there;s enough on-campus culture generated by the students themselves, it might not matter if it's isolated from a bigger city. </p>

<p>The safety that's not her intellectual match...well, it IS a safety, after all.</p>

<p>Anyway, you know what she's looking at, and I trust your assessment; just suggesting maybe she has already chosen something good nearby for her list and you're not being open-minded towards her two suggestions. </p>

<p>Here's a really weird thought: is she just putting 2 lemons on her list so she won't have to really go there ever, even if she gets in? </p>

<p>It sounds as though you know of one or two really good backups and she's being
a bit stubborn because she's eager to go farther away from home in miles, IMHO.<br>
That's nothing personal. Many kids want to get outside their comfort zone for college.</p>

<p>I don't envy you and I really don't mean to sound like I have easy answers. My kid ended up going thousands of miles further than I'd ever have expected, but he had a specific program in mind. WIthout that, I also think kids should consider places 1-4 hours away more often than they do. My H believes kids should not go to school within an hour if they possibly can help it, even if they live alongside Harvard and have triple 800's. It's just a point of view.</p>

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<p>But there are different degrees of extent for being academic safeties, aren't there? ;) </p>

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<p>Actually, both of her safeties are closer to home than the schools I urge her to visit. ;) (On the other hand, some of the "match" and "reach" schools on her list are far away).</p>

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<p>Calmom gives some good advice. Make your expectations very clear, and own up to your personal anxiety about having your daughter go out of state. In my view, financial limitations are just that: your family puts an upper limit on what you are able to spend comfortably. I don't feel the same about having your child close to home (unless, again, the cost of travel is a financial burden or there are other contributing factors). "I don't want you to go far away because I won't be able to visit you/you won't be able to come home easily" isn't a good enough reason to influence the choice. I'm not trying to be harsh here, but I have been seeing some parent-senior conflicts on just this subject.</p>

<p>I sense that you have a real concern about the distance issue. I understand that, because I have an only son, and part of me would love having him nearby. But my own parents had an unhealthy resistance to their children's urge for independence--and that part of me is determined to let him spread his wings. Our jobs as parents have been to raise children who can be independent. Some kids are inclined to stay near home, and that's fine. But if my S is comfortable going 1,000 miles away to college, then that's the way it will be. I know it'll be hard for me, but remembering how tightly those apron strings were tied for me and how much I didn't like that, I'm more inclined to let him go. (Someone will have to remind me of this next fall. :) )</p>

<p>I gently pushed my S to visit a school he wasn't thrilled about because I sensed that he just didn't have a good feel for it. We visited while on a family trip to somewhere else (it isn't nearby) and had an information session in the department he's interested in. He liked it and is applying. I don't care whether it's his final choice, but at least he's interested. But beware: such visits can backfire.</p>

<p>P.S. I chose my college because it looked beautiful in pictures (I never visited), it had a good reputation, I assumed (based on no evidence) that it had a good French department, and two girls from my high school went there, one of whom majored in French. I did not major in French, and I saw those two girls exactly once. But it was a good place for me. And yes, it's beautiful.</p>

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<p>In defense of OP, it's not always just apron strings, parental anxiety or even
finances that drive a parent to want a kid to look close.</p>

<p>Sometimes there are just good places nearby, that anyone else from a distant state might drool to attend, but the kid just takes on an attitude about it, based on "hearsay" and an easy discredit from an acquaintance.</p>

<p>We live in the Northeast, and when my older 2 wanted a good, solid, liberal arts foundation, I said, "Excellent. Apply anywhere in the triangle from Maine to Chicago to North Carolina. That's what we can handle, financially (travel costs!) and emotionally. Unless you can prove there's something in California that can't be found in that triangle, I can't support applications west of the Mississippi. If you're curious about the West, discover it on your own after college..get a job or go to grad school there, but not now.</p>

<p>If I were living in Alabama or Nebraska, rather than the Northeast, I'd have established a much wider net, because there just aren't as many places to look at within 500 miles of those states.</p>

<p>Only the youngest, who lobbied effectively that his major in film could best be accomplished in SoCal, was allowed to apply that far away. </p>

<p>Since OP might be from SoCal, it sounds as though you're similarly placing value on your nearby places. It's so easy to ignore "the girl next door" isn't it?
I think you're right to press the kids to consider such places now. </p>

<p>Maybe the discussion is, "why do you want to leave SoCal?" It almost sounds like a desire to see something else in the country, an escape from materialism, or something I don't quite get since I'm not from SoCal. (But I DO love our S's new school in Orange!!!)</p>

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<p>Keep in mind that sometimes kids say "I heard that was a ___ school," when the message is "I don't want to go there, but it's really tricky and long to explain why."</p>

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<p>I'm actually from NorCal. ;) My D DOES consider safeties (and some reaches, too) in "our own backyard", in 1-3 hours from home - and many reaches and matches far away (Midwest and East Coast). But she dislikes SoCal (been there numerous times ... doesn't see anything good there except Disneyland :)), reluctanly agreeing to see/apply to some of the best schools there ... and ignoring the second/third etc. best. ;) </p>

<p>For me, having her close to home would be great, but since the list of schools to go around here is very limited, I'm willing to widen the area of applying ... as far as needed; but I don't like the idea of overlooking the second closest (and fine, in my opinion) area schools before jumping any farther. ;) That is, my 1st choice would be to be able to see her every (other? ;)) weekend; my 2nd choice - to be able to drive to her anytme if really needed (some crisis or sickness or whatever) without buying air tickets; and only if something outstanding, not found on this coast, comes up (some REALLY great school ... plus great finaid/scholarship ;)), then I would bless the decision to go far away.</p>

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<p>Personally, I don't think it is either healthy or realistic for parents to expect to see their college aged children once a week, or even once every other week. </p>

<p>I agree with Geezermom, about kids spreading their wings. College is a terrific time for this, and even if it were only a tacit expectation about weekly visits, I think it would really inhibit the growth and development of the child.</p>

<p>Just my two cents. I understand all the concerns though.</p>

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<p>"I don't think it is either healthy or realistic for parents to expect to see their college aged children once a week, or even once every other week."</p>

<p>I don't expect to see her every other week ... all her college years. ;)But, at first, I think even she might want to be able to come home whenever she needs to. I did when I went to college. ;) </p>

<p>When she is sick, she actually wants to be home more than anywhere else. When she is in a good shape, then, of course, she is more willing to be anywhere else. :)</p>

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<p>No doubt, we all like to be where we are most comfortable when we are sick, and home is often that place. </p>

<p>It sure is hard to think of our kids being sick away from home. But many of them learn great new skills by being trying on their independence hat, and survive very well. It instills great confidence in kids for them to see what they can actually do on their own.</p>

<p>That said, I don't think being far from home is for every kid. I really think, like summer camp, there are some who are emotionally better suited for distance than others. But I like to think the kids help make the decision, not that it is made out of anxiety of the parents (not you, Myau...in general).</p>

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<p>Yea, I know ... my D traveled a lot independently from us, all over the world ... but, mostly, in summer; and since 8 years of age she had been off to sleep-away summer camps. ;) Nevertheless, I see her now feeling very mixed-up about most optimal distance from home. </p>

<p>Last year she went away for a few days (to SoCal, BTW) to some music event. It was exactly the time when we were planning the college-visiting trip to East Coast in spring break. While she was away, we finally bought our air tickets. She came back ... by plane, too (it's about 30 mins. flight). She had a minor cold (always has it when going to that dreadful all-state thing) ... which grew up to some nasty ear infection during that short flight; then had a hard time getting her ears (and hearing! :() back to normal ... it, luckily, happened just in time for us to go to that East Coast trip. Later, she admitted that if we wouldn't have our E/C air reservations before her coming back from SoCal, she would tell us to "relax, stay home, no East Coast whatsoever". But since the deed was done, off we went.</p>

<p>During our 10-days college-visiting trip there, the major storm had happened - with flooding in NJ and other "spectacular" things. And VA Tech shooting. :( I felt it's a SIGN for us. ;) </p>

<p>Since then, she approximately formed her college list - which includes lots of places all over the map - but the question "how would you feel if you need to fly (for several hours) with the cold, risking your hearing again - or if you have your New Year "party" at the airoport, with the flights delayed due to storm?" - remains open and unanswered for.</p>