<p>I am shocked at the college placements made by the good New England prep schools. I have one brochure in front of me. Last year, in a class of 133, 41 went to the 8 ivies, 4 to Stanford, 2 to Duke and another 20 plus to the top LACs. About half the class to a top 10 college. What should this tell me about the pressure at such a school?</p>
<p>Don't forget- these kids were pre-selected. They were almost all ready for a tough academic track when they entered the prep school. The other thing it should tell you is how excellent the college counselors are at these schools and what good relationships they have with the admissions people at the highly selective colleges. I am SO impressed with the college counselors at my S's prep school. It is a caring, competent machine.</p>
<p>Find out who the kids who got in last year were. A LOT of them are recruited athletes. Seriously, if you really want your kid to get into an Ivy and he or she has the ability to excel in squash, ice hockey, field hockey, water polo, etc., enrolling your kid in a prep a school is a great idea. The majority of kids on these teams at the Ivies went to boarding schools. </p>
<p>Second, find out how many were legacies. There are usually a lot.</p>
<p>Third, find out how many were "Prep for Prep" types. You know, kids from seriously disadvantaged backgrounds, sometimes, but not always URMS. These kids will do very, very well in college admissions.</p>
<p>Fourth, find out how many were celebrities' kids. From what I've heard, Yo Yo Ma's daughter is a REALLY nice kid. However, I think she'd have gotten into HYPS even if she weren't at a top boarding school.Also rule out people you've never heard of, but who are, nevertheless, "development cases." Translation: their parents can easily donate $1 million +. </p>
<p>So, find out how many white or Asian kids, who are not legacies or recruited ahtletes or celbrities or development cases from the boarding school in question got in. That's really the relevant number, if your kid's got no chance of getting into one of the special groups.</p>
<p>Not only are the kids pre-selected, usually by a standardized baby SAT, but at many schools they are tossed out when they are in trouble. The college counselor gives them a huge step up on similar kids in large public schools. In our nearest public high school with 400+ seniors only two, applied for early decision. My daughter found out about most of this stuff by searching the internet. I did the same and often found the websites of private schools most useful.</p>
<p>In public schools where the principal has the ability to toss non performers or trouble makers (their concept not mine) public school kids tend to do much better. (example, DOE schools where comanders back up school administration)</p>
<p>Jonri is right. Most prep schools keep a "College Book" where they have a page for each college that anyone in the school did an application for the last 4-5 years. The students are coded for athletes, legacy, outreach, special contacts which are the development and celevrity kids, URM, and performing arts. Look at what is left and that is the true rate of acceptance if your kid does not fall into those categories. Pay more attention to who did NOT get into the colleges with great stats. That is more telling than who did get in with lower stats. There may be an underlying reason for that 1300 with the 3.0 who got into an ivy.</p>
<p>At the particular school I'm looking at, almost everyone went to an excellent college. After all those top ten acceptees, we have 7 to UVA, 3 to JHU, 3 to Connecticut college.....There's 1 Skidmore and 1 UNH, which is about as low as the "ranking" go on this page. While the point is well taken about the special groups and good counseling, I'm wondering if these schools are pressure cookers.</p>
<p>Not necessarily. Look at the thread on grade inflation that Marite started about a school that I would call more of a pressure cooker.</p>
<p>I recently met a parent whose daughter had graduated a few years ago from a prep school similar to the one Kirmum is talking about. His daughter did very well there and is a student at an Ivy league school, but he told me that she and many of her friends hold no fondness for their prep school. They feel that they were put under tremendous pressure to "get into Harvard" (his words, not mine) since the day they entered. I was surprised to hear this, as I always thought of it as an excellent school which some local students I know attend as day students. I never had investigated it for my kids because of the cost, but I had always thought it would have been a good place for them if we could have afforded it. I don't know if her opinions are shared by many students, or just a small group, but apparently some do feel that way after attending.</p>
<p>Too much can be made of the idea of "special groups." I teach in an elite prep school, and I've had dozens of students go on to the best colleges; while there are surprises every year--development admits, recruited athletes, legacies--the vast majority are deserving on their own merits. In general, I've been impressed with the ability of the best colleges to uncover and admit the most interesting, most able kids. </p>
<p>That said, one interesting factor to consider is which of the elite colleges the school is getting its students into. It doesn't take long in the prep school world to realize that some of the Ivies are more willing to compromise their standards than others. I won't name names, but they know who they are.</p>
<p>My son is at a prep school that is not one of the "top 7". We have our second junior class meeting with the college counseling folks next Saturday. It has been made very clear that the goal is to find the right fit for each student. There is absolutely no pressure to make it into the Ivys, although plenty of the kids do so. The counselor (a department of3 with support staff) assigned to each student works closely with the kid and the parents to arrive at a final list of 6 or 7 schools. Colgate and Bucknell are popular, as well as Penn, Rutgers, USNA and UNC-Charlotte. My take on the academics at the school is that it is not a pressure cooker at all, but offers challenging academics and lots of interaction between faculty and students. My S got to go snowboarding today with some teachers and kids.</p>
<p>I don't think it necessarily a pressure cooker school. My son's school has a similar line-up of colleges, though his class is smaller and the school choices are a little more diverse...though still in the top 20. His school is not a pressure cooker. He would have hated that.</p>
<p>I think it's more related to:
1.ALL of the kids being well prepared and having the scores and grades to compete - this is what you send them to these school for - and what you should get in return for your $20-$40k yr.
2. Most of the kids want to attend a select few schools just because that's what they're hearing about from friends, counselors, parents....probably not feeling too much "pressure' to compete...just knowing "this is what we do, this is what the class before us did, this is what the juniors will do next year". It's a stretch. But, they've been stretched everyday for at least three years. They're well prepared.
3. I think there's a certain amount of pressure, but that pressure is normal for them. I don't think the pressure increases dramatically when college admission season rolls around - no more than for any other kids applying.</p>
<p>Would you really expect to see different results in admissions from those schools? This is normal for them. And, I bet they take the deferrals and denials with the same "this is normal" reaction. These kids are used to seeing each other face disappointment. They understand that stakes very well. So, while you see them applying and gaining admission to these schools, they surely face their share of disappointment....and like those before them and the juniors who will come after them, it's all in a day's work. </p>
<p>I wouldn't worry about the admissions stuff.</p>
<p>What I would worry about is sending a kid into this environment who hasn't been used to it. My son transitioned at the start of 9th grade. It probably would have been better for his transcript if he had transitioned in 7th or 8th...learned to manage the workload...and was able to have caught up by 9th. Instead, he had to spend 9th catching up and learning to keep pace. His straight A record in 8th went to almost all Bs for 9th. That's the only thing I would worry about.</p>
<p>EDIT: Don't underestimate the leg-up gaained by the relationships between the counselors and the college adcoms. No pressure on the kids there...and it counts - big time!</p>
<p>MotherOfTwo,</p>
<p>There will always be pressure in a high-achieving environment, be it an elite school, an elite sports franchise, an elite law firm, etc. Most of my current and former students have a balanced view of their experience; if they're not always thrilled about the pressure, they're grateful for the experience of being surrounded by a group of impressively talented people.</p>
<p>I can definitely relate to what you are saying - my son is a student at Stanford and he thrives in that environment, but is under a lot of pressure, some of it self-imposed, in my opinion. I was just relaying what the other parent recently told me in response to Kirmum's question about whether some prep schools are "pressure cookers".</p>
<p>At S's school, the atmosphere was a bit tense when the EA/ED news hit. This year more than 70% of the kids applied early to at least one school. A few kids had already heard from rolling schools. I think most kids just wanted an acceptance so that the pressure would be off. But there were kids with an embarrassment of riches and some kids with nothing. I don't think there is that issue at the public school where the big deal seems to be getting into State U that accepts about a third of them. But the news is delivered on a rolling basis so there is no critical week when kids hear. </p>
<p>It's hard to believe that 70% of the kids are sure where they want to go. I think most of them just want a place to go.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the input. These list have startled me as the average SAT scores at these schools that place beyond anything I've ever seen are about the same as those at the top LA private schools which send maybe 10% of each class to ivies. Could it really be all about relationships?</p>
<p>Don't forget the geography factor, too. You have some awfully good schools on that coast.</p>
<p>Relationships and different customs. Customs - just like fashion trends at various schools, political climates at schools (I'm sure most schools don't have an entire hallway dedicated to gay and lesbian awareness/issues), focus on sports and lack thereof, etc..... If it's customary to focus on Ivy&Co, that's what they'll do...wiothout giving it much thought. Walk through the halls of your local HS. If the majority of students in sweats aren't sporting Ivy&Co gear, they might go in a different direction come fall admissions season. Location surely plays in.......as most of those students probably stay in New England for college.
EDIT: Momofwildchild, I saw your "geography" post after I posted mine. Obviously, I agree. "Feeding" is an important consideration.</p>
<p>kirmum..."Could it really be all about relationships?" </p>
<p>If you haven't read it already, pick up a copy of The Gatekeepers. The relationship between a Harvard Westlake counselor and selective school's admissions officer is one of the central stories in the book. Glad I read it prior to my D's senior year.</p>
<p>Can I ask to see the college books on school visits? I'm still having trouble understanding the vast numbers. I've seen the college books at 2 LA privaye days with similar SAT scores, and the lack of ivy placements wasn't for lack of trying, there were just few acceptances.</p>
<p>Kirmum, don't most of them have the college choices info on their websites? If you haven't check there, you might want to try. Most of the schools around here publish such info on the school website - many as a 5 yr view.</p>