(Semi-Rant) What a New-Englander Has to Say about Florida Universities

<p>I have been reading these message boards because my girlfriend is typically all over them, trusting the words of some of the elitists that ■■■■■ these boards. She has been trying to decide which public school to attend because she has been admitted to three large public universities in Florida: FSU, UCF, and UF. </p>

<p>First, it took me weeks to get her over her “stats”. What the heck has the world come to, when a 17-18 year old thinks the majority of their life boils down to a few numbers and meaningless “extra-curriculars”? </p>

<p>Do you know your child’s “stats”? If so, shame on you. “Stats” are for major-league baseball players, not high school graduates. With education budgets shrinking and competition for admission to big-name universities on the rise, parents and their children seem to have lost all sense of identity. </p>

<p>Having said all that … </p>

<p>I’m a college senior, having transferred last semester from a major university in Connecticut (I’m not into name-dropping). </p>

<p>I applied to several universities before choosing the one I currently attend. Some of the universities I chose to apply to were UCF, UF, and Columbia University (New York City).
I was denied admission to all but the latter (an ‘ivy-league’ school), which I had no interest in attending. </p>

<p>I decided I wanted to come to Florida, and had to choose whether to persue UF or UCF. When I was making my decision, I weighed several factors: </p>

<li> Admission Selectivity is Increasing Fastest at UCF:</li>
</ol>

<p>-> Admittance selectivity of the University of Central Florida has increased 37% in three years.</p>

<p>-> Admittance selectivity of the University of Florida has increased 32% in three years.</p>

<li><p>The middle 50% of Freshman SAT Scores at all major Florida public universities are nearly identical, or the difference is statistically negligible. </p></li>
<li><p>Campus ease of access, weather, parking, and school spirit </p></li>
</ol>

<p>There is no question that campus ease-of-access goes to UCF; it’s a new school designed in the tradition of a theme park (EPCOT, to be exact) with the idea that hundreds of thousands of people need to move in-and-out daily. </p>

<p>On the same token, weather and parking seem to be much easier in Orlando. </p>

<p>However, school spirit–or at least the amount of school merchandise–is noticeably different at each respective campus. Interestingly enough, I’m from New England and aside from Patriots and Red Sox / Yankees paraphernalia, nobody seemed quite as stubborn or as close-minded as a southerner: the true Gators fan. There’s nothing wrong with supporting your team–but when it’s overtly rowdy and you’re scared to visit another Florida university because of your license plate, it’s gone too far. </p>

<p>I was followed home and told to “Git out ‘n’ go home, Connecticut!” by a woman with a southern accent, confederate flag, and Gators decal. I won’t stereotype or generalize by saying that every Gators fan is a redneck. That’s like saying every Boston fan is Irish. It’s simply not true; this was a major deal-breaker for me. </p>

<p>I have visited Columbia, Yale, Dartmouth, UCONN, CCSU, Cambridge, Boston, Harvard, and a slew of other state universities and nowhere but in Florida did I feel intimidated by the intense (and absurd) sports rivalries between schools that hardly ever play each-other, with the exception of IM sports. </p>

<p>There is no question that the University of Florida’s disproportionately large endowment is partly due to the success of their alumni. Aside from the private schools in Florida, UF has the greatest number of successful alumni. This may be due to good curricula, or (more likely) it’s tenure as an older university. The University of Florida is therefore allowed to invest more money in its research and in its medical program. This is a big plus on the side of UF. </p>

<p>My girlfriend’s parents chose for her to attend the University of Florida, for several reasons, including some false presumptions that she got from reading this message board. As such, I just wanted to clear a few things up and share an outsiders’ opinion. </p>

<p>It’s a shame that parents are choosing universities for their children and throwing fits over which excellent public university is better than another. In Florida as in many states there should be no debate over which public school is better than the other. UCF, UF, FSU, USF, and the other state universities are ALL excellent schools with individual selling-points. The student should decide for themselves which aspects are most important to them and pick their universities accordingly. </p>

<p>Just as you may think that the “UC Davis vs. UC Berkeley” and “Berkeley vs. Stanford” questions are absolutely ridiculous, I’m here to share my opinion. No, you don’t have a better chance at making six figures if you attend FSU over UCF or UCF over USF. You may get to enjoy some better basketball games at a particularly university, but the differences fade exponentially from there. </p>

<p>And by the way, New England’s ivy-leaguers don’t appreciate the term ‘public ivy’. There’s no such thing. The “ivy league” is simply a sports division comprised of a handful northeastern colleges. </p>

<p>UF is <strong><em>NOT</em></strong> listed as “public ivy” either. </p>

<p>The original eight Public Ivies list by Moll (1985):2 </p>

<p>College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)</p>

<p>I find your post refreshing! There’s certainly myopia when it comes down to analyzing schools, and I’m happy you’ve called out a thing or two. Good luck to your girlfriend (and you).</p>

<p>Being OOS, we didn’t realize the rivalry between UF and FSU until we visited both colleges. At FSU, when asked where else we toured, we said UF and the interviewer scrunched his face with distaste. </p>

<p>We then ventured down to Gainesville to tour UF. We were unimpressed, the people on campus looked bored and unapproachable. I heard that during football season, Gainesville is hopping, but after football season the sidewalks roll up and you’re just in another rural city with nothing to do.</p>

<p>D loved UCF, the city of Orlando is vibrant, the campus was bustling, even though we toured on a Tuesday morning in the middle of July, the campus was FULL of people long boarding to class, biking, walking. As soon as she stepped foot on campus, she knew it was home. </p>

<p>The problem with kids in Florida is that they don’t open their OWN eyes and see what makes the perfect fit. Just because UF won the football championship, doesn’t make it the best all-around college.</p>

<p>You’re preaching to the choir. I’m sure most on here agree with your points. Especially the one about UF calling itself a Public Ivy. UF is one big hype machine that perpetuates it’s own false image. </p>

<p>You’re also correct about Gator fans being way over the top when it comes to school spirit. Heard many stories about cars with FSU plates getting vandalized in Gainesville. Other SEC schools are also scared of visiting UF, for fear of harassment and vandalism. That’s just the rep UF currently has all over the south.</p>

<p>I agree. This is a major problem for me visiting my ex next semester in Gainesville. </p>

<p>This thread is not meant to bash one school in particular, but to point out two gripes I have:</p>

<p>First, parents in general (and especially from what I see here in Florida) are either living their lives through their children or exercising an elitist ideology. My ex’s parents, for example, truly believe she’s going to be more successful because of the difference in the ranks of these two public Florida schools. There are other parents like this out there–just read a few posts on this message board. </p>

<p>You’d swear that a child would be disowned if they chose Harvard instead of Yale. </p>

<p>My argument to them went very much like the one above. Whether or not a student gets into graduate school is dependent on their performance during their UG career and to some degree the connections they make.</p>

<p>My second gripe is with the false nature of information on these forums, and with the fact that these forums offset millions of dollars worth of admissions advertising. What are you going to believe–someone’s contrived story about a school, or a school’s commercial? </p>

<p>I’ll be the first one to admit that UCF has a terrible admissions office. They automatically denied me admission twice, and I was accepted for the same semester to Columbia University. UCF also does a terrible job at marketing and combating the “UF hype-machine”. As I sit outside on the UCF campus today, I see a number of Gators Sweatshirts. Why, I ask myself: because they all have something in common. They all applied there, too.</p>

<p>Your rant is something refreshing to hear just as investorscooter said. I agree so much with many of the points you bring up. I was accepted to both UCF and UF and probably couldve gotten into a few even better schools but I just don’t have the money. UCF is a great school and the college experience if what YOU make of it. It doesn’t really make much of a difference for undergrad, no matter what the rankings say. I’m happy with my choice of UCF and their Honors College. From what I have heard though, students really do enjoy their time at UCF. And to me thats what really matters. Sure you have to strive for the future and go to a good school but whats the point if you don’t enjoy your time there and only attend a school for the name?</p>

<p>Let’s look at the facts:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>UCF has a lousy endowment (may even be behind Valencia Community College in this category). They are behind UF, FSU, USF, FAU, and FAMU.</p></li>
<li><p>UCF has lousy graduate programs (aside from Engineering no other ranked graduate program). Whereas UF & FSU make an appearance in almost every category.</p></li>
<li><p>UCF has a lousy athletic program. They are stuck in Conference USA and it’s surprising that they are even Division I.</p></li>
<li><p>UCF has produced very little alumni and is still considered a Commuter School by the rest of the nation.</p></li>
<li><p>UCF has a lousy Peer Assessment Score according to US News. Behind UF, UM, FSU, and USF in this category.</p></li>
<li><p>UCF has no national name recognition (as stated earlier its viewed outside of Florida as just merely a commuter school).</p></li>
</ul>

<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSF[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>National Alumni base:</p>

<p>UF - [List</a> of University of Florida people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Florida_alumni]List”>List of University of Florida alumni - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Miami - [List</a> of University of Miami alumni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Miami_alumni]List”>List of University of Miami alumni - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>FSU - [List</a> of Florida State University people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida_State_University_people]List”>List of Florida State University people - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Commuter Alumni base:</p>

<p>UCF - [List</a> of University of Central Florida people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Central_Florida_people]List”>List of University of Central Florida alumni - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>USF - [List</a> of University of South Florida alumni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_South_Florida_alumni]List”>List of University of South Florida alumni - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>FIU - <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida_International_University_people[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida_International_University_people&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>FAU - <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida_Atlantic_University_people[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida_Atlantic_University_people&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I appreciate the rant, some of the views I actually share. </p>

<p>I part company with the OP on some points, however. The first is the schools are not necessarily that close in terms of resources (faculty-student ratio for one), some schools actually have remarkable long-term strength in programs that others do not, but say they do (marketing equalization is a way to think of this) and that admissions selectivity is overrated (in terms of some Florida schools) as it is likely driven more by your parent’s desire for low cost and offspring control than by academic quality (I want my kid at school “X”, which is only 2 hours away, rather than school A, which is farther away); yet you’d think you were being admitted to a Top-20 national university as opposed to a state university the way the local state school in Florida trumpets this statistic.</p>

<p>As a parent, I agree with the part of the rant about parents being over-involved. With some exceptions, I think my kids would do well at almost all of the FL public universities. That said, there certainly are some differences, which could be important, depending on what program of study you wish to pursue – but I think that more often than not, the quality of education is determined by the passion and dedication of the student, not by which college they attend. </p>

<p>My oldest son is attending UF, my younger son plans to attend UCF. These were good choices for each of them, and I am certainly not worried about the “status” of either school. I am okay with whatever they choose to do. My oldest son chose UF over GA Tech because it made more sense financially – even though GA Tech is a “better” school with an engineering program that is ranked quite a bit higher than UF. DS looked up average starting salary for mechanical engineers graduating from each school – they were identical.</p>

<p>Side note – one reason UCF’s selectivity has shot up so fast is a result of a trickle down effect. With budget cuts, both FSU and UF are admitting fewer freshman than they used to – which leaves more kids attending other public schools. </p>

<p>My other thought is that OPs comments really could apply in any state, not just FL, based on what I’ve seen on these boards over the past couple of years!</p>

<p>And OP, I absolutely agree with you on your “stats” comment! It is criminal that a young person’s future is perceived to hang on such a thin thread. Stats are meaningless in the greater scheme of life – unfortunately, they matter a lot when you are trying to get into college these days. It is a sad state of affairs.</p>

<p>SSobick you seemed to have left out a good deal of important details. First of all, athletics don’t mattter. How will that change the value of your degree? Second of all both UF and FSU are about 110 years older than UCF. Of course they will have more established programs and more recognition! The fact that you and others consider UCF a commuter school is because of the time period it was created. It’s a more modern university. Typically only the older universities will have that traditional college feel because of how and when they were established. As for the alumni, of course it hasn’t produced as many! Yet again because its only about 45 years old. You can’t compare that to a school that has been around for 150 years.</p>

<p>You know you might be attending a “commuter” college, and not a “traditional” college, when your college has parking lots and not parking problems!</p>

<p>Just to pipe in here.<br>
We’re from Boston. Oldest S transferred junior year from Boston University to UF.
He’s a trumpet player. Now completing his Masters at UF. At Florida he found a school that absolutely embraced him. Faculty that provided amazing opportunities for performance, leadership and academic challenges. Amazing opportunities at the Florida state schools for top students. The Bright Futures program is fabulous. I can’t even begin to compare the difference between what Florida residents get for their higher education dollar versus what we get in Massachusetts. No comparison.</p>

<p>Good grief, the Gator football thing is just fun. Those of us from NE often don’t “get” the sports mania right away- we’re not exactly famous for it here at the college level. But I’ll tell you that this family had an absolute blast at the games and we went to a lot of them. Never saw really bad behavior - and the stadium holds over 90k fans. Its rowdy but not dangerous or mean spirited.
Second son is a Junior at FSU- its a top theatre school and he chose it over some much more well known schools. Like UF there is great school spirit. Its all in good fun. Our sons visit each other’s campuses all the time with their rival t shirts on and the stickers all over their cars. They get teased but its not serious and never dangerous :slight_smile:
It only gets a little animated here at our house during the Thanksgiving rivalry game.
Its part of the school culture to scrunch your nose up at the mention of the rival- its not serious. And FSU and UF do agree on one thing- they both cant stand Miami :)</p>

<p>Son #3 is probably heading for USC. Now that will be a whole other thing :)</p>

<p>Just to pipe in here.<br>
We’re from Boston. Oldest S transferred junior year from Boston University to UF.
He’s a trumpet player. Now completing his Masters at UF. At Florida he found a school that absolutely embraced him. Faculty that provided amazing opportunities for performance, leadership and academic challenges. Amazing opportunities at the Florida state schools for top students. The Bright Futures program is fabulous. I can’t even begin to compare the difference between what Florida residents get for their higher education dollar versus what we get in Massachusetts. No comparison.</p>

<p>Good grief, the Gator football thing is just fun. Those of us from NE often don’t “get” the sports mania right away- we’re not exactly famous for it here at the college level. But I’ll tell you that this family had an absolute blast at the games and we went to a lot of them. Never saw really bad behavior - and the stadium holds over 90k fans. Its rowdy but not dangerous or mean spirited.
Second son is a Junior at FSU- its a top theatre school and he chose it over some much more well known schools. Like UF there is great school spirit. Its all in good fun. Our sons visit each other’s campuses all the time with their rival t shirts on and the stickers all over their cars. They get teased but its not serious and never dangerous :slight_smile:
It only gets a little animated here at our house during the Thanksgiving rivalry game.
Its part of the school culture to scrunch your nose up at the mention of the rival- its not serious. And FSU and UF do agree on one thing- they both cant stand Miami :)</p>

<p>Son #3 is probably heading for USC. Now that will be a whole other thing :)</p>

<p>Lizard: what an incisive comment about the parking! Never thought about it, but it’s absolutely true.</p>

<p>So far my son has a choice between UCF honors college, FSU (haven’t heard about honors yet), Sarah Lawrence & Chapman. The rest will wait for April 1. We will visit Chapman, and I will pay extra special attention to the parking situation, because I’ve heard that Chapman may have started their evolution as a commuter school also.</p>

<p>Thanks for the tip.</p>

<p>Again with the alumni? You treat worship those lists like a religion SSobick! (He does this every time UF is even remotely questioned as a superior choice.)</p>

<p>And in terms of the availability of housing, UF has 9,500 beds, and UCF currently has 8,500, and planning to build more in a community they’re calling Northview. They’re set to exceed UF in the number of beds on campus with this project! UCF is no longer a commuter campus.</p>

<p>The quantity of beds on campus does not a residential university make. What is the percentage of students to available beds? Check out the dorm parking lots on a non-holiday weekend. If its full all weekend you’re at a residential university. If it empties like a typical office on a Friday afternoon, it’s still a commuter school.</p>

<p>A school like UCF is much like USF, both with a number of undergraduate campuses in a regional area. UCF has [12</a> campuses](<a href=“UCF Connect - Centers and Campuses Supporting Students in Central Florida”>UCF Connect - Centers and Campuses Supporting Students in Central Florida), many of which are shared with community colleges. USF has [six</a> campuses](<a href=“http://www.usf.edu/Locations/index.asp]six”>http://www.usf.edu/Locations/index.asp) in similar configuration.</p>

<p>Florida State and Florida have one main campus each, a design implemented when it was thought best to locate universities away from the problems associated with centers of population. Note that FSU has been in the same spot since the 1850s. UF has been in the same spot since 1906.</p>

<p>The “commuter school” concept is by design, to increase access. The Florida Legislature will not likely change the configuration of either UCF or USF to mimic the older, “flagship” (meaning first created) schools.</p>

<p>Without a doubt, the FSU/UF started out with a different mission, in a different era. The fact is that there are a couple of other Florida state universities, initially chartered as “commuter schools”, which are evolving into residential schools, too. They ARE located in urban centers and although they continue to draw many of their numbers from the local population, this huge wave of in-state demand has them accepting and housing Floridians from other portions of the state.</p>

<p>According to College board (frosh on campus percentage):
FSU - 84%
UF - 84%
UCF (Orlando) - 70%
USF (Tampa) - 56%
FIU (Miami) - 23%
UNF (Jacksonville) - unreported</p>

<p>So, UCF has led the commuter school pack in turning the corner into a residential college.</p>

<p>One reason the dorm parking lots at FSU, FAMU, & UF might be fuller on weekends is because the schools don’t have nearby beaches like the other 8 Florida state universities. From either Tallahassee or Gainesville, it is a 1 1/2 to 2 hour drive to get to a decent beach, driving on a 2 lane h’way behind someone driving 35 mph in his pickup truck pulling a donkey trailer. Even inland UCF students can get to Cocoa Beach in less than an hour, all the other schools are minutes away from beautiful Gulf or Atlantic beaches.</p>

<p>“Again with the alumni? You treat worship those lists like a religion SSobick!”</p>

<p>Yes, DVM I will continue to bring this list up over & over & over again (so get used to it). A vast majority of the alumni on this list graduated from UF in the last 30 years. I am of the opinion that it is a reflection of the quality of student that this flagship university attracts, and then cultivates to their maximum potential. Look the fact of the matter is that the University of Florida can go toe-to-toe with alot of Ivy League Schools in terms of the Alumni Base we have cultivated over these last few decades.</p>

<p>In addition Florida State and the University of Miami also have damn impressive alumni lists as well. The point is they are not commuter schools, and have a proven track record of producing graduates that make a substantial contribution to society. I am sorry this puts a damper on the growing urban universities, but you can not change history. Overall we have a Big 3 in the state of Florida, and it has been that way for a number of generations. No amount of revisionist marketing will ever change this fact.</p>