Senior April Visits - THE Weekend or Other?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I have a S who just finished his freshman year in college and a D who is a soon-to-be rising HS senior. The August 2005 - April 2006 marathon (no ED for these comparison shoppers) looms on the horizon. Joy.</p>

<p>I was recently talking about the April college visits -- by HS seniors looking to finalize their choices -- with some friends whose kids are 2005 HS grads. We missed this particular event with my S (he had a clear first choice and didn't take any senior April visits). My D's process is shaping up differently. She doesn't have a clear first choice, rather 3-4 favorites. Where she goes will depend on which of these 3-4 extend her an invitation, then deciding among them based on all of the typical factors, but specifically including finances and (perhaps most importantly) "feel."</p>

<p>So, thinking ahead, the senior April visit to perhaps her two finalists might be important. Where's my question in all of this? I'm getting to it. My friends' kids took many of THE OFFICIAL admitted students visits ("Bulldog Days," "ADOCH," -- 3 different families, perhaps 5-6 of these visits in all). Interestingly, in really talking to them, the impression was that these special "by invitation only" weekends were more about socializing, bonding, and chest thumping, rather than being a useful tool to decide between School A and School B. I heard stories that made the weekends sound like something of a cross between a Fortune 500 "Dog and Pony Show" and Mardi Gras. By the way, that's a perfectly fine thing, but perhaps not what my D will need. It seems to me that these OFFICIAL VISIT WEEKENDS are much more about time spent with similarly wide-eyed rising freshmen than they are about getting any sort of better feel for campus culture and the student body in normal (not "Dog and Pony Show") times.</p>

<p>From the experience of our many enlightened parents, if a student is truly looking to make a choice between School A or School B, would you recommend staying away from the OFFICIAL weekend (but staying away from April altogether is NOT an option since this issue arises due to the need to make the final choice between April 1 notification and May 1 deadlines)?</p>

<p>Thanks to all who can share their experiences or insight.</p>

2

<p>Good question. You may want to take a look at the thread entitled "Tales from the transfer front." Based on my daughter's experience (she is transferring from an LAC to a mid-sized university) I definitely recommend scheduling an overnight visit at a time that is NOT a choreographed event designed to woo admitted students -- too much camouflage and courting, too many bells and whistles. I think you get a far better feel for a school's culture by visiting during an ordinary period.</p>

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<p>My daughter went to two "choreographed" events in April. She found that this trip confirmed her choice of college. The school she did not choose had a "better" event in that it was better organized and scripted. But this was helpful information to her. "Daddy, all of the presenters were polysci majors who had anticipated every question and had prepared their response. And everyone there, not just the Alumnae but also the student body, looked like they were on botox." The quiet subdued response to even casual questions turned her off. The other school, the one she chose, had a similar schedule, but the students were more spontaneous and felt free to do other things with the visiting HS seniors if the situation seemed to indicate it.
Even the choreographed events are helpful.</p>

4

<p>My son did both types of visits. There are benefits to each. Do what you can do. Try not to leave all of the visits for April, though, as you might run out of time to squeeze in all of the accepted student weekends (thinking positively!). While the official accepted student visits have their dog-and-pony aspects, there are also other benefits. For instance, my son actually attended the sample classes and presentations (which didn't always happen at other schools he visited for non-official overnights). He met other kids with whom he had already corresponded on the accepted students discussion board. I attended programs for parents and gained insights from the talks given by residential life reps, school president, etc., and the way questions were fielded that gave me a between-the-lines reading on the school's administrative culture. If you or your child are the chatty type, there were tons of admissions reps all over the campus, very good for asking all types of random questions (and comparing the answers). Overall, we both felt that the "official" event was worthwhile. Plus they gave out free pencils.</p>

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<p>I'm not sure it's accurate to say that the choreographed "pre-frosh" visit events presents the school in the best light. At my D's school, the "prefrosh" visitors swelled the campus population by more than 20%, which puts a lot of strain on infrastructure -- long lines at the dining halls, etc. -- that are atypical, in a negative way.</p>

<p>I think I would recommend trying to do at least one overnight in the fall. This will not only allow a more typical view of one college, but will also give the student a valuable concept of college that can make the whole process much more rooted in reality than imagination. To me, the biggest problem kids have is evaluating college through high-school eyes. Anything that can help them understand what college is like (fall visitis, free-wheeling dinner table discussions, etc.) is beneficial, IMO.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all for the responses.</p>

<p>On reflection, perhaps my so-called question was more "reality check" than actual question. As MD and SE point out, I of course know that there is still value to be had in the "choreographed" visits. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. And, of course, there is value to be had in learning more about the school, getting to know one's future classmates, and simply having a good time.</p>

<p>I was really getting more at the best use of limited resources issue. My D has already visited each of these schools once, some more than once. She's already done to the info sessions, tours, interviews (at some), and general on our own due diligence. At many, she's spoken to department heads and other professors. But, when the dust settles, it's likely that 2, or perhaps 3, schools might be neck-and-neck, with the subtle, intangible "feel" issues becoming important for separation. It's at that time, and unfortunately at that time only, that a couple of overnight visits will be made. Given the choice between the highly choreographed official weekend and more of an informal, "do your own thing" kind of weekend, I'm still feeling that more OF THE KIND OF INFORMATION THAT MY D IS SEEKING is likelier to emerge from the latter, rather than the former.</p>

<p>Sure, we'd love her to be able to do both, but that won't work. Thus, if only one is possible, I think she'll get a better feel for the campus, the resources, and what it's like to be a student at School A, at something other than one of the official admitted student weekends.</p>

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<p>Given that there can be only a finite number of weekends in April, she may have to go when she can go - DD had events on 2 of 4 weekends this April. Also, she may have much clearer opinions by then, it is funny how that works for them.</p>

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<p>When I went with my sister to a reception for accepted students all the regular students in the dining hall were saying how much they loved this recruiting week since the food was so much better than usual!! Food for thought, hahahah!</p>

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<p>Another dude weighing in...</p>

<p>DD2 had a top three and April was super busy with a band trip, sports, etc. Two of these were not visited prior to getting all the late March/early April acceptance/rejection letters, so it was crunch time. Visited Tulane tour/info session (with a majority of hs seniors btw) after Tulane Days sessions (accepted students) ended, and it went well...actually a lot of shared angst on the tour! I wouldn't be concerned about just visiting on weekends either, go when you can.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Another dude weighing in...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Dude,</p>

<p>Du-ude!</p>

<p>Dude</p>

11

<p>Looking back at it, I would suggest Thursday night overnights in October/November for prime candidates. You'll quickly find out whether the school has a "thirsty Thursday" culture, and whether you are comfortable with it.</p>

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<p>My son scheduled a full day at his number one choice...during the week when classes were in session. He went to classes, sat in on ensembles and chamber music classes, visited his private teacher (he's a music major), had lunch with the music adcom and went to a brass jury in the evening (which is NOT usually open to those who aren't playing). It was a fabulous day and made his decision all the easier. We were prepared to take him to his number 2 choice...who he had also contacted...BUT that school NEVER returned his phone calls, voice mails or emails to arrange the visit. DS felt that spoke for itself.</p>

13

<p>I think some were talking at first of the pros/cons of visits on your own time/dates vs. orchestrated events for visits. And if that was the topic, I normally would pick visits on your own time, not open house event sort of things. HOWEVER, I feel differently in your situation based on your question. If you have ALREADY visited the schools (as I know you have) and done all the things you would do on a normal visit, then the organized events in April of senior year for accepted students are an excellent choice that can help a student to make the final decision amongst his favorite options. The event is geared toward helping a student decide and we found these fruitful. I would not say this necessarily, however, had it been the FIRST visit to campus but for the rest of my post, I am going to answer based on YOUR situation, having already done the visits the first time through in junior year (as we had done with our first daughter). </p>

<p>So, here is what we did and it really was beneficial, I believe. She did all the initial visits in junior year (but Smith which she added late in junior year to her list so did the first visit there in Dec. of senior year). Each visit was quite comprehensive, involving an entire day, and occasionally an overnight. Each visit had the info. session, the tour, a meeting with faculty or department head in area of interest, meeting with students or coaches in her EC interest areas, informal meetings with students in the dorms and cafeteria, checking out the local area, and so forth. Then in fall of senior year, we let her go for second visits to her two first choice schools (at the time) which involved overnights in the dorms, observing classes, meeting with faculty, etc. I realize that might not be possible for you given the distance but we were able to do these using a two day period for each. One school even involved an on campus interview. So by this point, she knew these schools quite well and could readily articulate Why X college on all her applications. </p>

<p>By winter, she had three "first choices" tied in her mind as favorites. </p>

<p>Come April, and once all acceptances were in hand, two of which were from the favorites pile, she narrowed her choices down to three schools she was deciding between. We let her go back in April for the accepted student events (two were back to back, and the third was about a week prior to those two). Our trips were via car, however. These events were all excellent and definitely helped her decide where to go. In fact, she made the decision of where to go RIGHT AT one of these events (the second we attended) as it ended. She did not need to go to "SEE" the schools at this juncture but to experience the overnight, meet the admitted students, talk to many students, observe classes, attend various presentations and events, talk with the depts. and EC groups she was interested in and so forth. She did the organized things but also built in a thing or two of her own like a meeting with a coach, a professor, EC club presidents, and so forth. So even at the accepted student events, she was able to individualize her activities of what she wanted to accomplish on the return visit. In the case of Brown, she had not seen it in 18 months (had been one of the first schools she had ever visited junior year) and we had seen it in the rain and this accepted student April event (ADOCH) was gorgeous 75 degree sunny weather and everyone was out and about and it felt like a different place! The events were well thought out and very helpful, including many performances and such. So, if this is a SECOND visit, I am recommending these events as quite fruitful. Then you get to do both the "ordinary visit" (as you have junior year) and the more organized visit where you also meet other kids in same situation....see if you like them, and also learn lots from the planned events. Plus it ain't snowing, lol. </p>

<p>That's my experience. I just know my child met up with me at the end of ADOCH at Brown and shocked me to have made the decision right then and there (thought she would on April 30) and BEFORE our final open house event that we were headed toward (but in fairness, had already done two comprehensive visits to that school in the past including an overnight). She just said to me, "I'm going here!" and we finally got the logo stuff in a rush to the bookstore (had not been willing to do this until that moment at any school) and then we still did the open house at the third/final school just because we had reserved it and also she felt she may as well confirm her decision and so we did. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Oddly enough, our process was essentially the same as soosievt's. We too had done the first runthrough of half day at each place in April of junior year. Fall of senior year D visited the top two (Princeton and Columbia) for overnights to decide whether or not to apply ED anywhere. Decided against ED. Then, when she had her acceptances, she did attend the two events.</p>

<p>Here are the salient points from our approach. First, on the non-event overnights, the issue is that your data points are small. If the child happens to spent the night with kids he/she doesn't resonate with, he/she may get an erroneous impression. In our case, D spent the night at Columbia with a friend and the night at Princeton with an acquaintance. Guess which place she liked better at that point? She then visited Stanford, which had had put off until fall since we live right nearby. Princeton fell off the top two list and Stanford took its place.</p>

<p>So come April senior year, she was waitlisted at Columbia but accepted to Princeton and Stanford. She went to both weekends. So did I...The weekends were really eye-opening. Not that either weekend represented what life would be like during the school year, but as marketing events of the institution, they do show you how the school wants to be seen. Princeton was quieter, Shirley Tilghman herself was involved, the professors were just hanging out in their offices and available for discussion. Stanford was a huge fun party, the welcome was given primarily by students, and the department open houses were more social and again, staffed with students.</p>

<p>And somehow classes were easier to attend at Princeton.</p>

<p>So, my D decided she was ready to be the light-hearted one amongst the serious, the Californian amongst the east-coasters. Either school would have been a great choice. My S is still committed to going to Stanford and everything he heard from D just made him more convinced. But for D, it meant she can go off to college with a framework to voice her own choice to herself and to others. So it wasn't the choice per se but the vision of the choice, the chance to settle into her commitment.</p>

<p>If that isn't all too abstract....</p>

15

<p>I can't edit from where I am so this is just to make clear. My S is only a freshman in high school. This Stanford thing for him is still wholly unsubstantiated....:)</p>

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<p>Alumother wrote: "I can't edit from where I am so this is just to make clear. My S is only a freshman in high school. This Stanford thing for him is still wholly unsubstantiated...."</p>

<p>Well, I am glad you clarified that, LOL. Come back in three years and tell us where he picked and let's keep this post to show him (after he picks, of course). :D
Susan</p>

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<p>Do I have to show it to him:)? See the thread on whether your family thinks you are crazy for cc involvement...In my house it is, "Mom, you are so weird...". But the sentiment I will remember.</p>

<p>So, Dude, whatcha gonna do?</p>

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<p>By January my D had reduced her college list to 4 favorites. (No ED here.) In her mind, the key to making a decision was to spend time in the dorms overnight so that she could talk to students in an unscripted situation. Unfortunately, she had friends in only 2 of these 4 schools, and the other two did not permit overnight stays except at the Admit Weekends. (If she had had friends to stay with at these 2 schools, it would have been possible to stay in the dorms.) So she went to visit the first two schools where she had friends on a long weekend in January and during her spring break in late March. Then she went to 2 Admit Weekends in April. She was a bit put off by the propaganda at the Admit Weekends but still able to glean enough info to make a choice. I would suggest avoiding the Admit Weekends if at all possible, but if the Admit Weekends are the only way for your student to have access to an overnight stay in the dorms, then that is better than doing just the standard tour & info session.</p>

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<p>As always, I am so impressed by the quantity and quality of the freely flowing information on Channel CC. Thank you.</p>

<p>Susan, our Vermont correspondent, has a good handle on where we've been and where we're heading. Yes, my D has already had comprehensive visits to 7 of her 8 favorite schools (she'll be applying to 8). Grinnell was a later addition to her list (replacing a certain East Coast LAC that starts with "V" and rhymes with "JYM-assar"). She couldn't see Grinnell in session this year and will be visiting in September.</p>

<p>But, while comprehensive (and unfortunately, perhaps not comprehensive enough -- no overnights), these visits did a very good job of sorting schools into tiers, but not necessarily a good enough job of establishing a definite order for the 3-4 schools in the top tier.</p>

<p>So, depending on what the mailman brings to our door next April, I forsee the likelihood of 2 and perhaps 3 visits to annoint "the one." So many of the posters made good points. I can definitely see pros and cons of each. Rather than wondering which approach is best, I take some comfort that no matter which approach we take -- and it might all boil down to which dates are best from a logistical standpoint -- any of these senior year April visits can generate the kind of information which might help separate "the one" from the other(s).</p>

<p>Which kind of visit do I think she'll opt to take? First off, it will be her choice. But, I think, if logistics allow, she probably prefers the lower-key overnight visit without the choreographed splendor and pageantry! In all seriousness, while recognizing the many benefits of that kind of weekend, I think she's looking for that last look on what it's like to be a student at this school on a (relatively) ordinary day/evening. From that perspective, I think she might get a truer, less frenzied feel from a non-official weekend.</p>

<p>My prediction is that logistics might dictate that she'll take one of each ... then we'll really be without the paddle. But she'll survive. All information is good information. And if the hoped for players emerge, she's going to be deciding between all good options.</p>

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<p>Hey Dude, sounds like a plan. As mentioned, my child had already done an overnight on an ordinary day at a few colleges prior to the April accepted students event/overnight. We did a second visit to two faves in fall of senior year. So, our circumstances were slightly different with regard to the April open house as just another look to help decide. However, by chance, the school my daughter ended up selecting to matriculate at was the one she had NOT done a prior overnight at before the April event (though had visited in junior year)!</p>

<p>Also, I know you tried to PM me and my inbox is full as always and I can't keep up with constantly clearing it out and I wish to save some emails there anyway and they don't allow for too many in the first place. It is easier for me and I much prefer, to get all correspondence in my email. So, contact me there: SoozieVT which is at aol.com. Thanks. </p>

<p>Susan
PS....my offer still stands that if your daughter wants to revisit Brown and do an overnight and MUCH more with the support of a current student, I KNOW my D would be more than willing, as well as quite enthusiastic. She has her last final exam today and then heads home tomorrow. I can't believe she has completed a year as it seems like she just began. I bet it will be hard to leave but unlike a some summer programs, she gets to go back again!!</p>