Senior high-achieving daughter with declining grades. Is it all going to be okay?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hello! This is my first post here, but I'm sure you parents who have been through applications can probably give us a realistic perspective on this. I know that a lot of this is "typical type-A parent/student stuff" that makes a lot of you roll your eyes, and I totally get that; take this from the perspective of me listing my daughter's worst fears and trying to know what I can accurately reassure her with.</p>

<p>My daughter has been a straight-A student up until this year. I never pressured her to it at all--she always pressured herself into it.</p>

<p>First semester of this year, she didn't get quite straight As. I would chalk it up to her stressing herself out with applications, extra-curriculars, and an illness. She ended up with an A- in Multivariable Calculus and a B- in AP Physics.</p>

<p>Now, about a month into second semester, she's getting As in all classes except physics, where she's getting a C. Needless to say, my straight-A student is freaking out; getting Fs on quizzes isn't something she's used to. She checks her online gradebook (PowerSchool) and, today, she saw that it says "Unweighted 7 Semester GPA: 3.98," whereas its always been a 4.</p>

<p>Her fears: Primarily, for the application process. She had to send off mid-year grades a few weeks ago; she's worried that her mid-year grades, with the lower-than-As and a not-4 GPA, will ruin her. She's applied to several Ivies, with a dream of Yale, and has already been stressing enough about her application (worrying about her essays, etc.)
Secondly, that even if she does ("by some miracle," she'd say) manage to get into one of her beloved Ivies, this second-semester decline, if she keeps it up, will hurt her.
Can anyone respond to her fears?</p>

<p>My perspective: I really think it's all going to be okay. I really think she deserves to relax now, and that a bad grade in one class--because she's pretty sure she can pull the rest of her classes--won't be the end of the world. But then, this is the Ivy League, and that's her dream; I don't want to pretend it's not serious, and I don't want to belittle her for taking it so seriously.</p>

2

<p>I don’t have any personal experience on this issue to share with you - maybe someone else will - but I want to caution you about using anyone else’s personal experience as more reason to worry. Everything depends so much on the school, the course, and the college. It sounds like your school doesn’t weight - so even the GPA is going to have a different spin to it. Our school weights only, nothing unweighted, so your daughter’s GPA with honors and AP classes would be much higher than 4.0 going in if she has been taking those types of courses throughout. </p>

<p>The only thing you can do now is relax and wait. If AP Physics is a particularly grueling course and many kids are not doing well - a note from her counselor to the institutions considering her applications that addresses the issue
may help, but that is only if there is an unusual circumstance.</p>

<p>I’m sure you also know that it’s not all about that grades. </p>

<p>I hope it works out the way she would like; please let us know!</p>

3

<p>The A- is not a problem. One B is probably not a problem. A C might be for some colleges. I think she should get some tutoring/extra help in physics, not just for the grade, but because it’s pretty clear she’s not quite getting it. A lot of physics builds on previous material and it’s worth it to learn it properly.</p>

4

<p>Does she have a variety of college’s on her application list, or ONLY highly competitive schools? </p>

<p>I agree, some tutorial help in physics would be a good idea.</p>

<p>I will add, she has a VERY challenging senior year schedule. </p>

5

<p>Thanks all for the replies! </p>

<p>Her school actually does weight, but it’s not easy to find that; unweighted is the only one readily accessible, which is rather strange.</p>

<p>Mathmom, when you say a “C” might be a problem for some schools, do you mean a C on the mid-year report? During second semester, which she’ll only report after acceptance? Do you think there’s a difference?</p>

<p>But you ARE right, it is pretty clear that she’s just not getting the physics and could use some extra help. I know that’s strange for us both–this is a girl who has never asked for help before. But I don’t think it’s a bad thing to teach her going into college, hm? :slight_smile:
Thumper: She has three ivies that she would be ecstatic to get into, a handful of small liberal arts schools that I know she’d also do very well at, and safety public schools that we’re not worried about. I have a feeling the latter two categories are ones she’ll do great in, so really, this question is just pertaining to her dreams, the ivies.</p>

<p>Question: What is considered a “challenging senior year schedule,” especially among applicants to Ivies and their ilk? I know she’s beating herself up about the grades, but AP Physics isn’t the easiest of classes, especially alongside Multi/Linear and AP English and the rest. Perhaps that’d give her some consolation, even if I do need to stress the importance of improving on the Physics.</p>

6

<p>The mid year report our school sends is the first semester grades. That may be what they send at your school…it would be worth asking…if they don’t look at second semester right now, that may alleviate some of her stress.</p>

<p>I agree that tutoring would be good. </p>

<p>Try not to let her beat herself up…senior year is a killer. </p>

7

<p>She is taking a very upper level math course, Ap Physics, AP English…and God knows what else. These are time intensive courses, involve lots of work. In the case of the math and physics, a clear understanding is needed each step of the way. </p>

<p>I hope she is doing some things that are enjoyable also…not just study, study, study. </p>

<p>The Ivies are reach schools for almost everyone. I hope she realizes that. It sounds like she has a well balanced application list. </p>

<p>She will be happy where she is planted next fall. Make sure she knows that!</p>

8

<p>Try to help her not fixate on the Ivies. Even with a perfect GPA, anyone’s chanced to get in are slim. For many it isn’t the GPA or scores at all but some single-minded focus or talent. Tell her that admissions at Ivies doesn’t look at individuals so much as the best mix of individuals to make for an interesting class. </p>

<p>I hope she also likes her other schools. I am not saying she won’t get in, but it is better for getting in to be a shock then for not getting in to be devastating. Try to gently get this across.</p>

<p>Ivies are just schools like everywhere else. Brick or stone buildings, books, students. Many class discussions are led by grad students which is a pro and a con, honestly. Having a campus full of brilliant kids can fuel insecurity, and the type A environment can be competitive in both a healthy and unhealthy way. Try to give her a realistic picture and convey that other schools offer the same things.</p>

9

<p>It’s a little surprising to me that a kid who is obviously so good at math would be struggling so much in AP physics. Maybe she should try to meet with the teacher a few times and see if she can sort out the issues she is having. There seem to be plenty of kids who don’t have 4.0 averages getting into top schools, and anyhow, there is absolutely nothing she can do about the mid-year grades at this point. As far as her anxieties go, does she already have some admittances? Try to play up the positives of those schools.</p>

10

<p>The midyear report that was sent to schools I assume only included the first semester grades which had the A- and B-. If she is getting a C in physics now, colleges will not see that grade until after decisions. The slight decrease in her GPA and the B- will not have much of an effect on her decisions - one B does not make or break an application.</p>

11

<p>First of all, was the C on a physics exam or was it her semester grade for the class?
Second, will the C be on the grade on the mid-year (semester) grade report that is sent to the colleges?
If the answer to #1 and #2 is “no”, then no worries and she can take a chill pill.
If the answer to #1 and #2 is “yes,” then there may be a cause for concern. But on the other hand, it also may make the adcoms wonder and pause to review the app again and maybe it will make her stand out from the crowd. You honestly never know.</p>

<p>Third, she has to be careful about getting too fixated on HYPS. The acceptance rates here are so low that we call them “lottery schools.” The thing about a lottery school, is that it doesn’t matter if you have a 4.0 UW GPA and 2400 SAT, and are val. They are looking for other things so that everyone is not just a clone of each other. So a 3.98 vs a 4.00 doesn’t really make a difference. There are seriously some kids who, when they didn’t get into HYPS, feel totally down that they basically “gave up their life” and didn’t get in and regretted some of the trade offs that they made during their HS years. Don’t let her be one of those kids. If she is interested in what she is doing, then fantastic!! Her GPA is fine; it’s the essays and whether she has a blend of interests and abilities that satisfies other needs.</p>

<p>BTW, my D attends Yale and her GPA was 3.91 UW thru Jr yr but had unique essays and unique ECs. She just happened to pull the correct lottery ticket; the adcom happened to have a similar interest in EC as hers. So a GPA of 3.98 still allows your D to hold onto her ticket.</p>

<p>Edited: I reread your post. She got a B- for her semester grade in AP physics; no worries; she can take a chill pill. Getting Cs in the Electricity and Magnetism section of AP physics C happens to other strong students as well. The E+M section gets better after the first 3 tests or so.</p>

12

<p>Some teachers only have one way of teaching and with advanced subjects schools typically don’t have multiple teachers you can pick between. Both of my kids at one point or another didn’t get it in physics, and I recommend tutors and study guides. What you absolutely don’t want is that C to go to a D, and if it happens on the last grade you won’t know until there it is. That happened to one of my sons in an earlier year (not in physics) and he retook it, but it is likely why he got NMSF and not NMF imho. But a number of schools would have a problem with a D, even if they let her take it over during the summer or something.</p>

13

<p>What is her interest as far as a major is concerned? Is she applying with a focus on STEM related subjects? I was always under the impression that a slightly lopsided candidate is not necessarily a bad thing. So if her main interests are history or English, a C in Physics is not going to hurt her. On the other hand, it might have some bearing on her decision at an MIT or Cal Tech type of school.</p>

14

<p>So sorry she is stressing. Does she run with a group who discuss this stuff all the time? My D had friends constantly comparing grades, applications, acceptances, etc and it was so stressful. I encouraged her to do more with the group not so academics intense. Once she shifted her focus, it was amazing how the stress went away. I’m just wondering if anyone is unknowingly fueling her stress level.
I would echo the above, get a tutor, remind her of acceptances/wins, and be realistic about the HYPS. She has every right to be proud of herself. In fact, in a small way this may be a gift. Many straight A students are shocked with a B or C in a college class, and consider themselves failing! Experiencing this now, and getting by it (with a tutor?) will prepare her for similar things possibly in her future at college. Better to find how to ask for help, then sit and flounder. She obviously is quite bright. She will do stellar with a little help.</p>

15

<p>Someone who is taking linear algebra shouldn’t be getting F’s on physics quizzes. She needs help. A B- at midterm is not going to help her get into the colleges she wants, but it may not be fatal if her application is otherwise attractive. I’m worried that her physics grade will get worse if she can’t figure out what the problem is. Acceptances have been rescinded if the grades drop too low. And yes, please encourage her not to put all her hopes in the Ivies, kids tend to put way too much important into their names when other schools may be a much better fit for them if they could just get past the names. </p>

16

<p>My straight-A kid threw in the towel senior year. She told her AP English teacher that she could really work hard for the A, but she would be making little effort for the B. She even got a C in religion in her last semester. She maintained A’s in math and science, but was really burned out by the end of the first semester. Fast forward five years: she graduated Magna cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa and is starting a great job on Monday. The biggest impact on her grades in college was getting that first boyfriend and focusing on him. They figure it out.</p>

17

<p>To all those reminding us that we shouldn’t put it all into Ivies: Thank you! It’s good to remember that every now and again. I know she’s truly excited about her other choices as well, and we both know how happy she’d be at any of them. We know how slim her chances–and anyone’s chances–are for Ivies. But she’s done all she can for essays and extracurriculars, and she knows that the only variable she has control over now is grades. I guess it’s natural that she reaches for that as something to try to control, and thus stress over?</p>

<p>Since HarvestMoon1 asked, her major interests are English and Biology, though she hasn’t given too much thought to a major yet–she loves the liberal arts idea of exploring everything and letting her interests take her where they may. But she’s pretty sure she DOES’T want to go into physics, engineering, or math, so there’s that. :wink: </p>

<p>I agree with all of you who are saying that she should probably get the help in physics. I think I’ll try to stress to her that the bad grades aren’t the end of the world, and that not getting an A–or even a B–isn’t the end of the world, but that she should try to get help more for the sake of learning the material correctly. I think she’ll like that.</p>

<p>Also, MD Mom, I laughed at your comment because she actually recently got her own first boyfriend, and I have a feeling that despite how much she really wants to keep succeeding, their study sessions together might not be as productive as we’d hope. ;)</p>

18

<p>Biology majors typically do have to take physics, but they are usually offered an easier version than the one for physics and engineering majors. But such a course will usually be filled with pre-meds (but so will many of her other courses if she majors in biology).</p>

19

<p>Don’t let her worry about this semester’s grades. Doing average in one course won’t rescind any admissions and even a 4.0 (unweighted) won’t mean acceptances. Decrease her stress level and I sure hope she enjoys her last semester as a child in HS. She may benefit from help in physics- she should be talking to her teacher. Physics without calculus is more difficult than with it because you don’t get to see as many connections.</p>

<p>I thought this thread would be about the slacker senior like my son dissed but became. Remember- her HS gpa will soon be ancient history- replaced by her college record (which in its turn will become ancient history). She needs to understand her perfectionism and then she will be better prepared for the rigors of whichever college she attends. Even at her public flagship she is unlikely to get all A’s, especially in fields that are not her major. </p>

<p>Son got a 5 on the AP Chemistry test taken in May with a C in that course ending in June his senior year. Something about not liking the way the teacher taught (obviously something about not doing the required work). Son got B’s in AP statistics because homework was graded- zeroes with 100% on any quiz/test taken. Sigh. </p>

<p>Your D may actually be learning more by having the boyfriend than just doing homework and getting A’s. Social experiences are part of growing up- she is lucky to have that experience.</p>

20

<p>I am 100% with wis75! I had a D last year just like yours including BF. Her last semester she dropped the ball and got her first C in an AP class. Still got into a top 5 ranked school. :slight_smile: I agree your D might want a little help with Physics if she needs to take it in college. I hope she has fun this spring! If anything, which is doubtful at this point, her Facebook and instagram would probably have a bigger impact on admissions than one C. Two words~~Privacy Stettings :"></p>