seriously now, how much of an edge do we really have?

Student Lounge African-American Students
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<p>i know that there IS an edge. but just how big of an edge is it?
i'm a URM (half black, half hispanic) and want to go to USC more than ANYTHING. I fit the admissions profile in every category except GPA. I think USC's is like a 3.7 unweighted. I've got a 3.3 unweighted. Weighted, it'd be like a 3.6/3.7, but I don't think that matters much.</p>

<p>I've heard of URM kids getting into schools that they didn't quite have the grades for, and of course I've heard the jokes like, "well I've got a 3.0, but because I'm black it's like a 3.5"</p>

<p>Is that really the case though?
Is the edge that great?
I know that USC boasts about accepting more minority students than any other private research university west of something or another...but is that even because of the edge?</p>

<p>Anyone know? Because I'm so banking on this whole "edge" thing to make up for my slightly dismal GPA</p>

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<p>"Of course I’ve heard the jokes like, “well I’ve got a 3.0, but because I’m black it’s like a 3.5”</p>

<p>Of course? I’ve never heard that about a GPA. If I did, I sure wouldn’t repeat it. Why don’t you check the “actual results” thread?</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/638464-actual-results-thread-african-americans.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/638464-actual-results-thread-african-americans.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I’m going to give you my side of the story. Because I’m one of the people that feel that I received a “boost.”</p>

<p>So as you can see I’m attending the University of Michigan - Ann Arbor this fall. My GPA was a 3.3 U-M GPA, and my SAT was a 1590. I know, I know, my SAT scores are terrible. Trust me I’ve gotten a lot of criticism about it. Now the University of Michigan - Ann Arbor is one of the most prestigious universities nationally and internationally(#18 USNWR Best World Universities Ranking). The average GPA of the specific college I applied to (LSA: Literature, Science & Arts) was a 3.8. Average SAT score for that same college was a 1960. Obviously my stats are way below average, but I got accepted. Maybe I was given an edge or maybe it was a miracle, but I got accepted and I’m going. Don’t rely on this “edge.” Personally I don’t think its an edge. I have talked to many of my Asian and Caucasian friends and they know that I probably got in because I was smart and I deserved it. Maybe that is true, but those same friends that I’ve talked to don’t know my academic record, or where I stand. The people that do know my academic record say that I got in because I was black. Even African American teachers that are really close to me told me the same thing, which really ****es me off when I think about it.</p>

<p>I don’t like the word preferential treatment. I honestly don’t believe African Americans are given that kind of treatment, but to the many people that might read this, they might think I was given preferential treatment. I honestly think African Americans that get into good schools earned it. My academic advisor at Michigan told me that I earned my place here. I think you should apply just because you have a strong interest in that school. However, If you are rejected don’t take it personally. </p>

<p>I hope this helped you in some way.</p>

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<p>Entertainer: If you haven’t, please share your profile in “actual results”, then talk to us in 6 months and a year.</p>

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<p>I’m not understanding… I should post what my stats are in the actual results thread?</p>

<p>What do you mean by come back in 6 months and a year? Thats the part I’m not getting. Sorry If I’m a little slow.</p>

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<p>shrinkrap-</p>

<p>i’ve seen those “actual results” threads before, and those are genius kids that happen to be black.
those are for the most part, not your typical high school kid who has a social life and cares about shoes and the weekend more than doing well on an AP test. (not saying that this is a good mentality though, just that it’s the truth)</p>

<p>their dope test scores and gpa’s and ec’s earned their admissions into top schools, not nescessarily their urm status. it may have given them a slight push, but they would’ve been perfectly fine without.</p>

<p>and i think i know why you haven’t heard those jokes;
a) you’re not around any black high school upperclassmen
b) you have no ears
c) you have no friends</p>

<p>because gpa jokes like that are said alllll the time. and you need to find something better to do with your saturday nights than be mean and not make sense.</p>

<p>entertainer-</p>

<p>thanks, that did help. because honestly i think that i should be able to and deserve to get into usc because i am, infact, smart. i may not be a genius and i may have a social life but that dosen’t mean i’m a complete slacker. of course when i do hopefully get in, i won’t think that it’s “just because i’m black”. i’ll believe that my essays and the epic loads of community service that i’ve done and my rigurous course load and SAT’s and interview will be what will have gotten me in that school.</p>

<p>now, i wouldn’t refuse any “preferrential treatment”, like, urm status is basically just another extra curricular that i’ve just happened to have been involved in since i was born, and colleges do love commitment to ec’s!! haha but seriously now, i need to rephrase what i meant when i said “banking on”. i want to use it like xanax, something to make me less worried and anxious and whatnot…</p>

<p>because if i really was banking on the edge, i wouldn’t have done much of anything to help me get into college besides make sure than my tan didn’t fade, you know?</p>

<p>…not that it ever will, though hahahaha</p>

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<p>shrinkrap-</p>

<p>i’ve seen those “actual results” threads before, and those are genius kids that happen to be black.
those are for the most part, not your typical high school kid who has a social life and cares about shoes and the weekend more than doing well on an AP test. (not saying that this is a good mentality though, just that it’s the truth)</p>

<p>their dope test scores and gpa’s and ec’s earned their admissions into top schools, not nescessarily their urm status. it may have given them a slight push, but they would’ve been perfectly fine without.</p>

<p>and i think i know why you haven’t heard those jokes;
a) you’re not around any black high school upperclassmen
b) you have no ears
c) you have no friends</p>

<p>because gpa jokes like that are said alllll the time. and you need to find something better to do with your saturday nights than be mean and not make sense.</p>

<p>entertainer-</p>

<p>thanks, that did help. because honestly i think that i should be able to and deserve to get into usc because i am, infact, smart. i may not be a genius and i may have a social life but that dosen’t mean i’m a complete slacker. of course when i do hopefully get in, i won’t think that it’s “just because i’m black”. i’ll believe that my essays and the epic loads of community service that i’ve done and my rigurous course load and SAT’s and interview will be what will have gotten me in that school.</p>

<p>now, i wouldn’t refuse any “preferrential treatment”, like, urm status is basically just another extra curricular that i’ve just happened to have been involved in since i was born, and colleges do love commitment to ec’s!! haha but seriously now, i need to rephrase what i meant when i said “banking on”. i want to use it like xanax, something to make me less worried and anxious and whatnot…</p>

<p>because if i really was banking on the edge, i wouldn’t have done much of anything to help me get into college besides make sure than my tan didn’t fade, you know?</p>

<p>…not that it ever will, though hahahaha</p>

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<p>^Shrinkrap is an adult, so it makes sense that choice A probably doesn’t apply to him/her. FWIW, I’m around black high school upperclassmen, have friends and fully-functioning ears, yet do not hear these “GPA jokes…”</p>

<p>To the op–methinks 'tis minimal…</p>

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<p>^Nevermind. I just looked over the “results” thread–it appears URM status is more of a boost than I had imagined… :/</p>

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<p>In my opinion the African Americans that were accepted into top universities(Actual Results thread), were accepted by their own merit. Those people have very high scores and they rank at the very top of their class. 1-5%.</p>

<p>I was just sharing what edge being “black” gave to me even though I necessarily never viewed it that way when I applied to college. I only started viewing it that way, sort of, when teachers that I knew closely and friends that new my credentials started questioning my acceptance.</p>

<p>But the edge is obviously great when you have high GPA/SAT scores. African Americans hardly get rejected when they have GPA nearing 4.0 and test scores over 2000. Apparently if you look at other threads, even though Affirmative Action has been banned, blacks still get a “boost” so to speak. Not saying its a bad thing. It’s very good in my opinion.</p>

<p>I can give you another take on this “boost.” UCLA used to have a high percentage of blacks enrolling in their college about a decade ago when Affirmative Action was in place. Now they are down to slightly less than 3%. So I guess we do receive boosts at other schools that use race as a factor in their admissions processes to achieve a diverse student body.</p>

<p>I don’t think the edge is that great though. Don’t expect too much. From what my academic advisors told me at Michigan was that I had very good essays and unique recommendations. My counselor wrote how I lived in Africa for 5 years of my life and how the experience has shaped my view of the world. I would say my recommendations/essays were pretty top notch. So were my extracurriculars. So If you have other things in your application that are noteworthy, give it a shot.</p>

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<p>“Shrinkrap is an adult, so it makes sense that choice A probably doesn’t apply to him/her.”</p>

<p>I’ve been hanging around here awhile… yes, even on Saturday nights, and I follow the postings of URM’s closely. I also talk to kids for a living. My impression is, for schools discussed on CC, you might “get away” with a “low” SAT, but not a low GPA, and that other things matter.</p>

<p>And entertainer, I think the stats in that thread would give the OP the information he is looking for, so yours would be an added value. Granted, those are “special” kids, but those are the kids the OP is competing with. Also, it helps us to know not just that you got in, but how you do when you are there.</p>

<p>Sorry if I seem “mean”, but I don’t think it’s “right” if you (OP) make “us” look “bad”.</p>

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<p>Well if that’s how I will be looked upon then I’d rather not post my information.</p>

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<p>I understand.</p>

<p>My D got into 13 of 14 schools. The 14th was UCLA.</p>

<p>BTW, I corrected my post to explain “you” referred to the OP.</p>

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<p>The difference with me and the (OP) is that I never relied on an “edge.” I just applied to schools for the heck of it following the, “There is no cut-off GPA/SAT” message. I also had strong interests in the schools that I applied to. Surprisingly I got into some of the schools I wanted to get into that I knew were reaches. I would rather not post my statistics and get ridiculed. Even though GPA/SAT mean nothing, now that I’m in college. I’m not a very good example of intelligent African Americans that earned their place at prestigious universities.</p>

<p>I don’t agree with the UC school method at all, but hey, its working for them in some regards.</p>

<p>I got into 10 out of 15 schools. The five I got rejected from were Ivy’s and two other prestigious privates, Georgetown, and UChicago. I knew I wouldn’t get into any of the Ivy’s or Georgetown and UChicago, but like I said I liked those schools a lot and I just applied.</p>

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<p>I read the whole actual results thread today, and I was sort of… shocked by some of the stats of people getting into very highly ranked schools and how it compared to when I read the Yale or Georgetown or Harvard results thread on those college’s subforum, and saw the stats there.
But I guess it correlates with what I read in The Opportunity Cost of Admission
Preferences at Elite Universities, a study by Chang Y. Chung and Thomas J. Espenshade of Princeton. From it:

</p>

<p>So that’s how much of an “edge” we have.</p>

<p>I don’t want to call anyone out from the Actual Results thread, but I feel like quite a few people would not have been perfectly fine without. Even black kids with high stats have a better chance of getting accepted because they’re black, and a lot of those who get in would have much, much lower chances if they were Asian. AA isn’t “fair,” and it does give a significant advantage to URMs. Just compare the overall acceptance rate at UChicago to the black acceptance rate. One is 34%, the other is just over 50% (from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education). It’s not fair and as far as I’m concerned it’s not right.</p>

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<p>Please know that that Chang Y. Chung and Thomas J. Espenshade of Princeton paper is based on data something like 20 years old. Also, I believe it refers to SAT’s and NOT GPA.</p>

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<p>Being black in college admissions is as far as I’ve heard, basically like having an extra big EC. I don’t think it makes as big a difference as some would like to believe for whatever reason, although I will agree to the fact that there is some kind of boost. And just as there are ‘miraculous acceptances’ for blacks, there are persons from other races who experience the same thing. Also, the SAT is ONE TEST. It doesn’t make or break an admissions decision. The entire package does. So even with the alleged boosts minorities receive in SAT score comparisons, I still don’t think it makes THAT BIG a difference. Just my 2 cents.</p>

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<p>Yea AA isn’t right in many regards. But the people getting into Harvard and Yale(Actual Results Thread for Africans) have comparable stats in my opinion. Comparable stats can be interpreted in many different ways though. So its subject to a lot of criticism by opponents of racial AA.</p>

<p>I’m going to use the UC system as an example, because clearly if African Americans aren’t given a boost, it would result in us being a tiny percentage in many top universities that have access to many resources.</p>

<p>W/ AA: 10.3% Black’s admitted to UCLA Law School 12-15% Black Pop. in the U.S.
W/O AA: 1.4% Black’s admitted to UCLA Law School</p>

<p>Honestly African Americans should get an extra boost in some regards, but it isn’t fair to the Asians and Caucasians that receive better scores and grades. I’m not sure if the system will ever be fair, but honestly there is more to an application than grades and test scores. People always overlook that. There is too much emphasis on the SAT. According to the Actual Results Thread, most of those students accepted to Harvard and Yale had very high GPA’s, but lower than average test scores in comparison to unhooked applicants that are usually accepted. </p>

<p>That is why I stress that African Americans shouldn’t rely on this edge when applying to college. I didn’t even know it existed really until people who knew my grades criticized me.</p>

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<p>Wouldn’t it be a better idea to fix schools at the lower levels? “Correcting” for it at the college, or in your law school ex, the post-college, level, allows us to ignore issues in elementary, middle, and high schools. Not to mention the issues in communities and homes. It’s better for a teacher to fully educate her students than to curve the test afterward to account for her failures. I think you would agree. So why should we do the opposite when it comes to something much bigger than tests?</p>

<p>Of course, this change cannot happen right away, so AA does make sense, but why racial AA?</p>

<p>Why should African Americans honestly get a boost? I don’t see a reason for that at all. There are tons of blacks that don’t need a boost, and, at least at selective colleges, they are the ones who benefit most from AA, as per this article: [University</a> Race-Sensitive Admissions Programs Are Not Helping Black Students Who Most Need Assistance](<a href=“http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/56_race_sensitive_not_helping.html]University”>University Race-Sensitive Admissions Programs Are Not Helping Black Students Who Most Need Assistance). Racial AA isn’t working.</p>

<p>And why should ORMs not get a boost? Many ORMs grow up in similar situations to URMs, and suffer doubly in admissions because they are Asian. The average Cambodian-American income is [$35,434,[/url</a>] comparable to the average black income. Their high school drop out rate, as per UCLA’s Asian Pacific Coalition and [url=<a href=“http://www.indypressny.org/nycma/voices/187/news/news_2/]a”>http://www.indypressny.org/nycma/voices/187/news/news_2/]a</a> study by NYU](<a href=“http://www.hawaii.cambodiaworldwide.com/women.html]$35,434,[/url”>http://www.hawaii.cambodiaworldwide.com/women.html), is above the black drop out rate. Laotian and Hmong students have similar drop out rates (I haven’t been able to find out income). I’m betting that they do not have better grades or scores. What is their advantage over black, Hispanic, and Native American students? What is the reason they should not get a boost?</p>

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<p>Gosh, did I say GPA in my post? Wow, sorry. I do stuff like that.
The data is indeed from 12-20 years ago, but I believe it’s the only study like that out there.</p>