<p>Went to school in Mobile. One of the greatest cities in the US. Even got used to the smell from the Pulp Mills (I don’t think they have them anymore) during a hot day. I miss it now. “Studying” at Dauphin Island and Gulf Shores did me in the first go around. Live and learn. She did clean his clock in about thirty seconds after he had spent an interminable time on the question.</p>
<p>Paper plants are gone. I remember the first time ever smelling such. Gulf Shores seems to attract many students for higher education-as the call them “senior days”. I learned about them long after my kids graduated from HS. I got planted here via a CGC Ice Breaker(kept Mobile Bay clear of all ice), marriage, flight school, ATC Mobile falcon driver and the rest is more or less history. Auburn and Alabama is serious business down here.</p>
<p>WP is right-2Nov will be a very important day. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the country goes.</p>
<p>found out last thursday…got 1390 :)</p>
<p>Can any body here give some stats on the service fields that mids at USNA go into by percentage? I.E. What percent go into submarines, aviation, USMC, etc…</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>it’s not done by %s …it’s a designated target driven by “needs of USN.” varies from year to year, but you can get a general idea by looking at past years. I’m sure there’s a post of last year on this or the Service Academies forums. I think the USNA target for Navy pilots this year is somewhere around 235. Marines are about 250, broken down by Marine air/ground. NFOs about 50. etc.</p>
<p>Congrats to all the NROTC Mids who received assignments Thursday, 14 Oct 2010. USNA Mids get the word 01 Dec2010, altho some already know unofficially.</p>
<p>Actual figures for the class of 2008 are posted on the Naval Academy website and can be found here…[Common</a> Career Choices](<a href=“http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/choices.htm]Common”>http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/choices.htm)</p>
<p>Does anyone know if a language skill is a factor during ship selection? My mid speaks a foreign language and does not want to be on a ship where the talent cannot be utilized.</p>
<p>Non-factor. One of the generally odd notions w/ USNA, and perhaps other SAs …majors and academic foci have zilch connection to professional assignments. Exceptions include USMC are most often non-tech/bullish majors, submariners most often are techies, and med school admits virtually always chem majors. Beyond that, it’s a crap shoot. But no credit for speaking swahili, french, or hispanic of any kind. Now, isn’t that rather odd considering how the flavor of the current moment is “diversity?” In other words, if your grandma was born in Hong Kong means more than if that same offsprung can speak hongkongese. Shows how laughable it all is.</p>
<p>btw, does anyone know how to define “hispanic?”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes - by checking that box on the application, whether it’s true or not.</p>
<p>Elvis! THAT is funny, but truth whether the box-check is or not.</p>
<p>I’m really curious about this though. Remember, the rationale for diversity is that the officers appear to be representative of the enlisted among the fleet. So if that’s so …</p>
<p>Is it name, pedigree (do diversity candidates get a ribbon of some kind to give indication?</p>
<p>But for example …the recent past el presidente of mexico …name of Fox. Looks more non-hispanic than my Scots-Irish neighbor. So …if he were a Mid how would he be “recognized” in the fleet? If one turns down the volume on Mexican TV …no clue where it is from.
My black nephew looks like he could be Marilyn Monroe’s grandson more than Ella Fitzgerald’s. Speaks no ebonics. How would he be IDed?</p>
<p>I’m confident some of the enlightened might enlighten us.</p>
<p>Generally, “hispanic” is applied to those from a country formerly ruled by the Spanish empire. Thus, those from Mexico, Central and South America are generally thought to be “Hispanic.” Also, countries of the Greater Antilles and some of the Spanish East Indies were traditionally included.</p>
<p>BUT, of course, this being America, we like to make things simple for the simpletons among us and, now, the term is applied to many from Spanish-speaking coutnries. Thus, people who originate from parts of South America that were not under Spanish control are also included.</p>
<p>Interstingly, current Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor is frequently referred to as the first HISPANIC or LATINA justice. These are correct, but slightly inaccurate references which ignores Benjamin Cardozo, a justice from the early 20th century. His ancestors came from Portugal. Today, he might be considerd Hispanic even though he was descended from the Jewish community of Portugal.</p>
<p>Which gets to WP’s slightly racists remark that implies all Hispanics should be brown. </p>
<p>For example, approximately 90% of Argentina’s population is considered “white.” Over 50% of Chile’s population is “white.” In Central Mexico–predominately the Mexico City Area and, interestingly, the north-central area of Mexico where a significant Amish/Germanic population has settled–a great number of the population is from European (White Anglo Saxon) extraction. The indigenous populations–you know, the one’s who were here FIRST before the marauding Europeans came in and decimated their populations with disease and famine–were of a Mestizo/Indian extraction. thus, the “brownies” were here first and it was the white europeans who have had to introduce their color to the land; and they have.
Generations of inter-marriage have resulted in a wide range of skin color among those who are from “Hispanic” areas of the world.</p>
<p>so, Anglo-colored Hispanics DO, in fact, represent a portion of the Hispanic culture. Not all Hispanics are ghetto-blasting jumping-automobile brown-skinned person’s who don’t deserve (really!) to be graduates of the N.A.</p>
<p>Bill, as always solid info. </p>
<p>So how far back is legal to proclaim hispanic “culture” in one’s blood …</p>
<p>Interesting that in the end, what I hear us saying is that all it means is that it’s where one’s ancestors once lived. How long does one have to live in one of those nations to be deemed hispanic? days, weeks, months, years, decades, centuries? and why the cutoff there? how and who determined that once that German lived in Mexico for BlANK long, he is now officially hispanic?</p>
<p>Heck, I became a Southerner within days after meeting one of the prettiest belles on the planet, assuring her my great-grandaddy wore gray all the time and once rode a paddlewheeler to Biloxi, y’alling with the best of ‘em, and playin’ Dixie on my 8 track while we were courtin’ and spoonin’ on the Mississippi in Memphis in May. When is one in the club?</p>
<p>Inquiring simpletons are dying to know? 
</p>
<p>btw, your read was slightly racist. If you’ll read carefully, my point was to illustrate that hispanic is obviously NOT a function of skin color …altho the Mexicans have specific terminology for the darker skinned among them. Blanking on that common terminology. Blacks have historically done same …thus the origins of the “Jack & Jill” Society …function of color, not race, and absolutely racist.</p>
<p>Not sure there is a cutoff; when does one become an “American.” Illegals? probably not. Legal Permanent Residents? Some have been here for longer than citizens. Citizen? We know that some “citizens” do not seem to have assimilated very well. Native Born? heck, there are native-born “Americans” that seem to be more interested in the sucess of other countries than the USA. [compare number of terroristic events perpetrated by citizens to those perpetrated by foreigners.]</p>
<p>So, yes, it does seem to be only a matter of where your ancestors lived. How many jews, who have never been to Israel, seem to put Israeli interests ahead of Americas. [Same could be said of many arabs and others.]</p>
<p>American-indians, according to BIA, require 1/16 [I think] blood to claim Indian benefits.</p>
<p>So, as usual, there is no simple answer for the simpletons.</p>
<p>Here’s an interesting question? What country in the world has the largest population of English speakers?</p>
<p>The answer is simple r e: the English-speaking speakers …the country that wants to be most like the USA and its folks are dying to get here.</p>
<p>I’m fully persuaded wherever that may be…the locals don’t know our tongue as a matter of wanting to be tourist-friendly. </p>
<p>Who??? Do tell.</p>
<p>btw, Bill …You state the issue is that visibly hispanic folks don’t merit graduating. I’d beg to differ. It’s a function of having equal opportunity for appointment to the USNA. While even that’s debatable with plenty of evidence of preferential treatments for special groups, we might agree that graduating is an individual responsibility. </p>
<p>Let’s look at an example to consider this further …</p>
<p>Take 2 cousins , both of German ancestry, one Adolf… whose great grandmother lived in Tijuana for awhile on her way to San Jose from Frankfurt where her folks were from, and thus Adolf gets to be deemed hispanic, a “priority need of the Navy” vs. his less blessed cousin Jose, who’s great-grammy lived a mile away from the border in San Diego for her whole adult life after taking a direct flight from Berlin, speaks fluent Spanish, and has a yard crew and maid, all of whom are illegals but cheap labor. Her daughter even married the hunkish pool boy Ricky Rodriguez. They’re aunt and uncle to Jose. Both Mid candidates are blond haired, blue eyed boys last name of Smith and Republicans. Which one is more hispanic?</p>
<p>debating extremen hypothetical examples is not useful; there will always be inequities.</p>
<p>Your candor and confession that this stuff is both inequitable and ultimately indefensible are genuinely appreciated. You’re seemingly a good lawyer (some might say that’s oxymoron?)working to portray the client as anything but the criminal he is. And when the .truth becomes evident. Rest the defense </p>
<p>And herein lies not just the destructive lie of it all, but the lesson for the young men and women who are dreaming and hoping that all they might get is a fair chance at becoming a USNA Midshipman. Make that a FAIR chance. American “culture” dictates that as a simple concept …</p>
<p>EQUAL OPPORTUNITY …not in the meaning of the politicians who’ve stolen that notion and attached it to prorams, policies and procedures that lead to the exact opposite.</p>
<p>It becomes the contrived attempt to engineer via bad, unfair activities …EQUAL OUTCOME …to benefit a few who as you’ve noted are somehow genetically connected to a color, class, creed, or your new one …culture. Ironic that it is the hatred of the dastardly notion that some are born to the manor, others to the manger that these men and women and all Americans who’ve come before and fought for our nation…are seeking to overcome and hold at bay. So ironic.</p>
<p>But here’s the important point that can be helpful to prospective candidates and their parents and advisors …</p>
<p>Recognizing that there is in reality a well-defined, multiple track system generated by desire to re-engineer a fully public, taxpayer funded entity that cannot be reflected in a single class profile nor exposed by proper portrayal of this. And to know that the concept of meritocracy-best and brightest-equal shot-disregard of class warfare-politcal realities …PS,btw jk re: esq. oxy-moronic … 
…but have you heard the one about what to call 1,000 lawyers on the Titanic? </p>
<p>A start …</p>
<p>Hey, seriously, we have to laugh at this to keep from crying. I trust we all prefer the former, but that doesn’t relieve us of calling “foul” when it is. This is.</p>
<p>Only when we admit Camelot’s not, will it move toward that lofty height.</p>
<p>As usual, you stretch my posting to fit what you want it to say. Inequitable does not necessarily mean indefensible.
You know o fme well enough to know that I will not continue bickering backa nd forth just for the sake of doing so. [We had enough of "69 doing that.]
The current system is inequitable in the same sense that for most of its history, admission to the NA [all academies] was inequitably distributed.<br>
White males had an unfair advantage in admissions for most of the first 150 years the Academy has existed. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. And white males don’t like it. The first retort might be that two wrongs don’t make a right. And they would be correct. The second line of defense is that “standards ahve been lowered” and . . . they might be right. But the Navy does not seem to have suffered from such “lowering of standards.”</p>
<p>The point is . . . there is no point. It is what it is. Some people are able to correctly identify themselves as Hispanic, African American, or otherwise. . . so be it.</p>
<p>You can come up with all the absurd examples you want; for the most part, with some notable exceptions, the system seems to be working. Just as it always has. Whether white, brown, or black, there never seems to be a shortage of both good and bad graduates.</p>
<p>As usual, you subvert and miss the point. It’s understood that when no defense exists it must rest. </p>
<p>On one item, we’re in total agreement. It is what it is and no sense belaboring that beyond 2 items, and i.e. recognizing this as a forum for informing, realizing there are varied tracks and rules; and as such, make sure candidates recognize both those rules and the current climate dictating them in order to maximize the process and minimize disillusionment. It’s a big pill to swallow, but necessary.</p>
<p>Perhaps in the exchange, among other things, it might be that some have gleaned the opportunities to check the critically important diversity boxes that will open doors to them otherwise inaccessible. That’s a good thing.</p>
<p>You know tho …thinking about your definition of hispanic? What if a German girl, who’s dad works for Exxon in Mexico City, is sent to live with her grandma back in Berlin? Dad and Mom live all her growing up years in El Mehico? </p>
<p>Is she hispanic?</p>
<p>And thus we continue to see the silliness in that which you simply see as “that’s life.”</p>
<p>Doesn’t mean it has to be life-paying-it-forward. But an alcoholic only changes when he confesses, “I’m a drunk”, thus presumably implying he either doesn’t care or he wants to no longer be an alcoholic. I care. All who strive for genuine equal opportunity, especially when that American dream manifests in a calling to the Naval Academy, and by design as it stands now, some of those more worthy candidates (by traditional measures of the Navy, not me) are nixed in order to allow ones who’s grannies and grampas wanted to get away from the land of their heritages as fast and permanently as they could and exchange their birthrights for American citizenship.</p>
<p>You see, in its starkest, darkest form …this practice of segmented admissions in order to better reflect a more diverse fleet …runs in 180 degree opposition to the one thing that has made the USA a great melting pot, seeking unity from diversity. And that one thing is assimilation.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t it be far more productive …and American …to work at ASSIMILATION rather than trying to segment the Fleet. Of course.</p>
<p>Perhaps the most denigrating aspect of this practice? It flies in the face of that single notion that lies at the heart of the USNA experience and value …honor.</p>
<p>It’s dishonorable in so many ways, only one being the implication that it’s a level playing field when that’s untrue.</p>
<p>Bill0510:
</p>
<p>I thought I read somewhere that it was ILLEGAL to investigate or to challenge a candidate’s ethnic background - not just the Naval Academy, but any institution. The candidate is under no obligation to prove his ethnicity claim.</p>
<p>If a candidate claims he is “Hispanic” then the admissions office has to take him at his word - even if his name is Timothy O’Neil and he has red hair with freckles. (Maybe his Irish father married a part-Cuban woman for all they know.)</p>
<p>Unlike many of the nominating MOCs, the Naval Academy does not require a photograph of any of the candidates for the application file.</p>
<p>The only personal interaction the “Naval Academy” has with the candidate is the BGO interview. I don’t know - is the BGO aware of the candidate’s claimed ethnicity before the interview is conducted -or- is the BGO tasked with determining the candidate’s ethnicity? And, let’s say the BGO is expecting an interview with an “Hispanic” candidate, who happens to look not the least bit Hispanic. So?</p>