Several questions about engineering from a high school freshman

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>I am a 14 year old, 9th grade freshman at a Southern California High School. I am a 2nd generation American born Chinese (parents 100% Chinese and from the mainland). Keep this in mind when I discuss my grades. </p>

<p>I'm interested in Engineering, as I like the idea of being able to design and build and work with high end tech, and will likely go into either biomedical, computer, electrical, or mechanical engineering.</p>

<p>My aim schools are UCB, Caltech, Harvey Mudd, MIT, Carnegie, etc. (preferably California or Northeast coast)</p>

<p>1.) Aside from self interest, what are the benefits of going into an engineering school as opposed to medicine? From what I've heard, engineering is harder work and pays only a fraction of what doctors or surgeons are paid (according to BLS).</p>

<p>2.) What extracurriculars should I participate in (aside from lab research, school clubs, and school teams) that will increase my chances of going to a Ivy level school?</p>

<p>3.) I have a C in Algebra 2 Honors that I have been working my ass off over the winter break on to get to a B by the end of the semester. Granted, I am skipping a grade of math, but if I get a B, or god forbid, a C in the semester course how will this impact my chances of getting into an Ivy level school? I've been told that a C or B in high school is devastating, even if you manage to score As in the next 2-3 years, and that the fact that I want to enter engineering makes it even worse.</p>

<p>Any input or feedback on this matter is greatly appreciated, and refrain from flaming as I am only a 14 year old with no experience and a lot to learn.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance!</p>

2

<ol>
<li><p>Going into engineering means completing an engineering bachelor’s degree and going to work. In contrast, going into medicine means taking pre-med course work while doing a bachelor’s degree (in any major – though it may be difficult to fit in the pre-med courses around most engineering majors), stressing about keeping your GPA > 3.6, stressing about getting an MCAT score > 30, stressing about the medical school application process (including traveling for interviews), knowing that only half of those who apply to MD medical schools in the US get into any. And then you will probably be taking out $300,000 in medical school debt for the four years of medical school. Following that is another four or so years of residency (paid, but not enough to significantly pay down the debt). Only after that do you get to the high pay levels as a physician (but the debt may force you to chase the specialties with the highest pay levels, even though you may want to do a lower paid specialty).</p></li>
<li><p>For super-selective schools, you probably need top end grades in the most rigorous course selection, top end test scores, and extracurricular achievements that earn state or national level awards or recognition. However, it is not necessary to go to a super-selective school to go into engineering or apply to medical school.</p></li>
<li><p>What grade of math did you skip? Algebra 2 in 9th grade is two grade levels ahead, so skipping to go from one to two grade levels ahead is not that much of an advantage, which is cancelled out and more if you do poorly in the course. Math is obviously very important in engineering.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>In any case, your focus now should be to do the best you can in high school, in order to maximize the choices you will have for college. I.e. the better you do in high school, the more colleges will admit you, or give you scholarships that will make the cost lower (which can be important if your parents are not able or willing to pay the full price which is over $60,000 per year at the most expensive private schools).</p>

3

<ol>
<li><p>Going into medicine takes more time,and costs far more money than engineering. Engineers do indeed earn less, but their starting pay is as high as any other major, and they don’t have to have essentially a second mortgage hanging over their heads after graduation.</p></li>
<li><p>Do the extracurriculars that you want to do, and more importantly, be good at them. What you do isn’t as important as the level you do it at.</p></li>
<li><p>Even for the Ivy type schools, one B or even C is not a death blow. I know a student who earned a C and 3 Bs in his high school math career. He’s currently an engineering student at Columbia. On top of that, there are some fantastic public schools out there that provide a top-notch education, and don’t reject 95% of their applicants - they won’t care at all about one bad grade.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>In addition, I think you are a little stuck on the prestige-or-bust mentality. That simply isn’t the case, especially in engineering. You won’t end up starving on the street with a degree from a state school. You’ve got plenty of time for the college search process - start seeking out schools that you like and can afford, not just the ones that looks good on a bumper sticker.</p>

4

<p>Thank you both ucb and KF7, I appreciate your input. I will try to reply to both of you altogether-</p>

<p>1.) I would not consider myself upper class or wealthy 10%, but my parents are fairly well off and if my dad’s current business plan works, he would have no problem paying for medical school (granted I make it first :P). Anyway, I guess what I was trying to ask is why bother going into engineering (which I’ve heard, and correct me if I’m wrong, more difficult education) if after making it out of medicine the salary is higher. I can understand how 12 years and expenses can be a huge factor, but I guess the easiest way to put it is “what else?”</p>

<p>2.) I am actually self studying AP Biology, Psychology, and Chinese this year, hoping to do Chem, CompSci, and APES next year, Eng, Calc BC, and Physics C (x2) Junior year, and end with Statistics and Eng for senior year, which I believe totals to 13 APs. I understand that this will be extremely difficult to pull off given I am doing 5 of them without any teacher aid, and I understand that quality > quantity, but I think I just slacked when I started high school. I have also taken the PSAT, and I will update my score within the next week. I will probably try for the school’s physics, math, science, and speech teams, contact some professors on providing lab experience, but I guess I’m just stuck when choosing volunteering or community service which plays a huge role in admissions.</p>

<p>3.) My district math goes starting middle school (Math 6 -> Pre Algebra -> Algebra 1 -> Geometry -> PreCalculus -> Calculus) but on my modified track I went (Math 6 -> Algebra 1H -> Geometry H -> Algebra 2H -> PreCalc+CalcA -> Calc BC -> AP Stats). In 7th grade I played too many video games and ended up with a C in pretty much all my courses, which I guess also contributes to why I suck at Algebra now. Although I did pick up Geometry with an A, I have basically taken a bullet when I decided to take Algebra 2 Honors and thought it would be easy. Over 2 weeks I plan to redo all my math homework to the point where all problems are correct (~1000 problems) and if I do well on the final and my next test I can pull my grade up to a B. </p>

<p>Thank you KF7 for the optimism, but I feel that the chances of that happening to me are close to none. </p>

<p>Again, thanks for all the feedback, really helps :)</p>

5

<p>An engineering graduate with a 3.2 GPA will probably have a job. A premed with that GPA will probably have to find another path.</p>

<p>Also, even a successful doctor starts eight years later with $300000 extra debt.</p>

6

<p>I’ve heard of the UCSD Med Scholars 8 year program, which my brother has encouraged me to attempt, and the education is next to free and is only 8 years (including bachelors). I understand that the difficulty of getting into one of those is harder than a scholarship to Harvard, but if one makes it through, they would start at the same time as an engineer and make much more (even if the engineer was successful). I guess what I don’t understand is why medicine, which appears to take more hard work and memorization, makes so much more than engineering, which requires more foundation and more difficult tasks both inside and out of school. I mean sure a doctor does determine the future of a person’s life, but in a way, so do engineers, as if a bridge was not secure enough it could collapse and kill many more.</p>

<p>I guess my final question, targeted towards those in college or are already working, is “what extracurriculars did you do?” </p>

7

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<p>To be honest, your odds at getting into a top private are poor, and they’ll be pretty poor no matter what you do. The sheer number of applications those schools receive and the limited number of seats in their freshman class means that tens of thousands of outstanding students will get turned away. It’s just the way it is. Furthermore, a top private education isn’t needed for engineering. For example, you’re probably near UCLA. It may not sound as great as MIT or Caltech, but it has a very highly regarded engineering program. If you graduated from there with a decent GPA, you’d have little trouble finding a good-paying job.</p>

<p>Regarding your latest post, I am a freshman engineering major. The only extracurriculars I did in high school were three years in marching band, which I only did to boost my college application and hated, and working in a lab at the local commuter college, which was all right. My extracurriculars were the weak point of my application, but I made good grades in some very challenging classes and got high standardized test scores. I’m at a well-regarded OOS school with enough scholarships to make it work, so I think I did OK.</p>

8

<p>I wouldn’t worry about a single B nearly as much as I’d worry about being weak in the fundamentals of algebra. Pretty much all the rest of the math you’ll take will assume good algebra skills, as will the SAT/ACT.</p>

9

<p>My advise is to work hard in your classes and concentrate on strong math fundamentals. Join ECs that interest. At this point, don’t get too worried about college details. If you do decide to study engineering, there are lots of good schools.</p>

10

<p>I am curious about why, when you are interested in engineering, you are also talking about medical school? Is this due to family pressure or are you genuinely interested in medical school? If you are more interested in engineering then one thing you can do is to do a little research on what an engineer does and then see if you can find an engineering to talk to. As far as extracurricular activities, if you are interested in engineering, a robotics club might appeal to you. I see many applicants to our engineering program at Illinois Tech have experience with this kind of activity. </p>

11

<p>Engineering, like medicine, to a great extent is a calling. Without the calling one can be a competent EE or physician but that’s all there is to it, followed by burnout, disappointment, and the like.</p>

<p>If you feel you’re interested in the stuff, follow your heart and don’t worry too much about which flavor of Ivy League you will end up. At 14 you’re way too young for that. Otherwise you’ll go into premed, think you’re a supernatural human being with your 3.9 premed from a renowned and tough university, EC’s to make Mother Theresa look average, and still bomb the MCAT. </p>

<p>Do the robotics and other such geeky things and see if you get a better understanding of what engineering’s all about. </p>

12

<p>Alright thank you everyone, I am completing something around 200 problems daily and about 650 problems since I’ve started this thread, so yes I’m working to make sure I do well in math :slight_smile: I don’t think I am unable to get a high A in Algebra 2, I just don’t put in the effort I need to.</p>

<p>I’m just curious about medicine because surgery seems like something that would interest me because it’s mechanical as well. I like to take apart the computers in my home and put it back together, and I see surgery as doing the same on a human being, and yes my parents and brother do pressure me a little bit into going into medicine but they support my wanting to be an engineer.</p>

<p>I actually am in the school’s robotics club, but we haven’t really done much other than learn a bit of code.</p>

13

<p>The most important thing you need for engineering is math. Math, math, math. Solid knowledge of math from the ground up. </p>

<p>Source: my mother is an electrical engineer and my sister is graduating soon in electrical engineering with a 4.00+ GPA. (I want to be an aerospace engineer.) </p>

14

<p>Solving too many questions in maths won’t help you. Don’t go for the quantity rather go for the quality. Also, physics plays an important role in deciding your major, if you are able to solve I.E.IRODOV by the end of your high school then you are perfect for taking engineering as a major.</p>

15

<p>What would you suggest I do instead of solving tons of math problems?</p>

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<p>For each concept, solve a few easy ones for practice, then try to solve the hard ones.</p>

<p>But also try to understand the theory behind each concept so that you know why a formula works and how it can be applied to problems.</p>

17

<p>I have already solved all the hard ones, some with guidance though :(</p>

18

<p>Then solve harder ones! There are always more out there! And try tutoring other students, as that not only looks good on applications, it also really helps your own understanding!</p>

<p>But back to your original questions…</p>

<p>

Well, doctors have to put up with a lot of things that other professions don’t, including 4 years of medical school plus 3-7 years of modestly paid residency. You also don’t have to pay for malpractice insurance or be on call on weekends or any of the other issues that make medicine unattractive without the big paycheck. Plus the fact that everyone goes in wanting to be a surgeon but a heck of a lot of bright, talented, motivated students wind up as podiatry residents at minor hospitals - not everyone gets to be a Hopkins neurosurgeon!</p>

<p>

On it’s own, probably not… but the top schools are extremely competitive, and if you are a marginal admit then sure, this could tip the scale. But the profession of engineering is pretty forgiving when it comes to school name - any decent school will give you good opportunities.</p>

19

So after some blood, sweat, and tears, I did finally pull off a B- in the class (80%).

My current weighted GPA is a 3.77 (A, A-, A+, A-, B-, A-), but I am getting a bit more serious in school and hope to pull off at least a 4.0 next semester.

I wanted to ask, what weighted GPA should I strive for when I enter college? Because my current GPA is a bit on the lower end, I want to work harder for a better GPA and want an aim.

I plan to self study AP Bio and AP Chinese, hopefully get a 5 on both by the end of the school year, and start looking for extracurrics.

Thank you for all the help!

20

Congratulations on bringing your grade up.
The schools you named in your original post are all very selective and difficult to get into. Many of the applicants will have 4.0 UW GPAs and very high SAT or ACT scores. Ideally, you aim for a 4.0 GPA (unweighted) each year. However, striving for a high GPA must be done with some recognition of your strengths and weaknesses. If you struggle with writing, you may find English composition classes to be difficult, or chemistry concepts may be difficult to master. Above all, don’t let the drive to get a high GPA lead you into unethical behaviors or downright cheating. In other words, don’t let getting good grades distort your perspectives of school.
Extracurriculars are very important so don’t necessarily put them off until the end of the school year. There are several different reasons for choosing your ECs. One reason is to provide an outlet from classes, studying and academics. These ECs can be sports, atheletics, music, art, etc. Being a good citizen or your religion might lead you to find community service or volunteer work. You can use extracurriculars to provide some insight and additional information on your interests. For example, you asked about medicine in your first post. Look for volunteer jobs at hospitals and medical centers. See if there are any available volunteer jobs at local museums where you can help in classes or demonstrations. In your school, see what clubs, such as math club or robotics are available. You can try a variety of ECs in your early HS years, but will probably want to find the ones of greatest interest to focus on as you get to be a senior. Best Wishes.