severna park cheating scandal

Pre-College Issues High School Life
81

<p>Hyakku, again, you seem to be ignoring the news article. The girl asked the proctor to leave and he told her yes, but she needed to leave her bag. Then he changed his mind and let her take her bag, which is against the rules. Furthermore, perhaps you should read the words of someone who was actually involved and posted a bit back:</p>

<p>"I am a Severna Park parent who knows many of the students involved in this incident (although, thankfully, my own child was not in this particular testing room). I'm writing to correct some false impressions that I see cropping up in various posts here, presumably because many writers seem to be basing their remarks on a couple of spurious newspaper reports. The reality is that Peter Thompson (who was not even in the room in which the cheating occurred) is not "the snitch"; he (and a group of other students) merely designed and distributed a survey to assess the perceptions of cheating in the school. The reality is that NUMEROUS students in the testing room witnessed the cheating on this particular AP test and took it upon themselves to report it to school authorities. This was a large group of "snitches" who felt that the activities in the room (such as loud talking and blatant text messaging) disrupted their ability to take the test. When they complained to the proctor about these disturbances DURING the test, they were ignored....However you view their decision to "turn in" their classmates (naive, noble, futile, or whatever), this GROUP of "snitches" are actually being held up as heroes by numerous students at Severna Park, many of whom are frustrated by 1) the poor proctoring and conditions of MANY tests, 2) the perceived pervasiveness of cheating and the apparent apathy toward it on the part of the administration, and 3) the educationally questionable push by the school system and community at large to get students to take as many AP courses and exams as possible. If students at Severna Park are furious at anyone, it most certainly is not Peter Thompson, who just happened to be interviewed by reporters because he designed the survey. They are furious at the alleged cheaters."</p>

82

<p>huh. wow.
i took the ap history test and i am apalled that anyone would even have the oppurtunity to cheat. if you spend a year in a college level course you should take the test, which was difficult, to see how well you've done throughout the year. taking an ap test you really dont have anything to lose but by cheating these kids have tarnished their academic reputation for the rest of their lives</p>

83

<p>they didn't "tarnish their academic reputation" by cheating, they did it by getting caught</p>

84

<p>
[quote]
You are making all these snap judgments without knowing the full situation. He may not have even seen the girls leave, and if he did, how could he prove their test was in there. He probably didn't even think to check their desk.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Did you even read any of the articles? Don't spout off about something you're completely uninformed about.</p>

<p>Also, the reason they make you put your Section II sealed books on your desk during the break is to make it easier for the proctors to notice if one is missing. If the guy had enforced the rules he was required to read aloud (no talking, no cell phones, no extra stuff like bags, etc.), their cheating might've even been prevented.</p>

85

<p>First off, I don't know if any of you realize it but the media does botch stories up. Already we've had three different conflicting reports from the media, a "parent", and a "student" that goes there. One person called him a loser, another is saying he's a hero, and the news portrayed him as the snitch when, if this parent is to be believed, he wasn't even IN the room. </p>

<p>So instead of YOU trying to tell me to pay attention, I don't think you've realized that this story has been changed like three times over the past three days. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Hyakku, again, you seem to be ignoring the news article. The girl asked the proctor to leave and he told her yes, but she needed to leave her bag. Then he changed his mind and let her take her bag, which is against the rules. Furthermore, perhaps you should read the words of someone who was actually involved and posted a bit back:

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>.....a girl can tell a guy teacher she's having girl problems and thats nearly ALL it takes. Do you realize the society we live in, especially considering the school he teaches at? He teaches at a fairly wealthy, upper class competitive high school. The chances of him getting ****ed for telling a girl she couldn't take car of herself or a lot higher than if he just let her. Again though, anything could have happened, she may not have even ASKED the proctor and the news could have changed THAT too. But I'm glad this "parent" and student has told their side of the story so you can see wrong news can be.</p>

<p>Anyway t his thread is getting pointless. The kid apparently has no friends and nothing has happened so all is good.</p>

86

<p>Hyakku-</p>

<p>I wonder, if you re-read your posts how you might feel if someone sent them to let's say U Miami and said here is this kid and his attitude on cheating. </p>

<p>How apt do you think they would be to want you as a student. </p>

<p>Perhaps people do cheat, get stories mixed up. The key to character is not that you don't ever make a mistake, but that you at least know right from wrong and make some attempt to do right. </p>

<p>Attitudes like yours break my heart....</p>

<p>here is a great website for you to go to</p>

<p><a href="http://www.charactercounts.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.charactercounts.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It's a wonderful opportunity to be reminded every week about right and wrong and how easy it is for ALL of us to blur the line.</p>

87

<p>No, the key to YOUR idea of good character simply differs from mine.</p>

<p>Again, I wouldn't care if UMiami read this, because this is me, and I'm not one to try to pretend to be something I'm not jjust for recognition. If UM said I had poor character from one post on the internet I would be thrilled not to be going to such an ignorant school that makes judgments based on a few internet posts.</p>

<p>Regardless, the farther this goes and the more info I have received from people this entire news story continues to prove its idiocy about what truly happened.</p>

88

<p>There is so rampant of cheating at my school. At least 80% of people do it--in honors and AP classes!</p>

89

<p>how could these people ever live with themselves? unbelievable!</p>

90

<p>What drives people to cheating? In college and life the consequences can be very great -- fail an exam, fail a course, get expelled, lose a job, destroy your career.</p>

<p>As a society, we're putting more and more emphasis on high achievement without any regard for honor. It's seen better to be a valedictorian who was dishonest than a saluatorian who worked honorably. Likewise, parents who make their kids feel that they are failures for not going to an Ivy League or wishing to be anything other than doctors or lawyers are part of the probably that embeds kids from an early age to begin these Machiavellian tendencies.</p>

91

<p>I just finished reading the posts on this thread, and I am saddened by the cavalier attitude toward cheating that so many here have. CC posters are generally among the "best" students in the country. You have the ability to change the world for the better. Without a moral compass, though, you will end up selfishly changing your own world without regard for others. I realize you might not see that this is a problem, but it is --- </p>

<p>I am appalled that the kind of cheating many of you describe is taking place. I am sorry for those of you who feel it is the norm. It is NOT!!! While there will always be those who cheat, or try to cheat, it is --- thankfully --- not "what everyone does" in most places. I am very glad that my children do not go to school in an environment where rampant cheating is okay. Yes, some kids copy homework answers, and some try to cheat on tests. But it's not the norm. And there is NOT cheating on ACT's, SAT's, or AP's around here. Maybe that is why our test scores in the area are not at the top of the country ... but I'd rather live someplace where student achievement is real than someplace where students cheat to achieve. </p>

<p>I am not naive. I am a high school substitute teacher. I DO watch students when I give tests. I look for "hidden" notes, texting, eyes on others' papers, talking, etc. Adults who do NOT do this are part of the problem, because their inattention allows the culture of cheating. Last year, several teachers complained about a small group of top students who sometimes cheated on tests. I asked if they ever gave them 0's when they saw it happening. They did not ... after all, the students were "good kids". A couple weeks after that conversation, one of those students stole an ACT test. Someone told --- AS SHE SHOULD HAVE!!! --- and the student was caught before he could open the seal on the test. But this young man might never have tried something so stupid if only the teachers who allowed him to cheat all along had actually had the guts to stop him in the first place. I am not saying that the student was right ... clearly, he did something he knew was wrong & should rightfully have suffered the consequences ... but those who seem to think cheating is just a part of life shouldn't be surprised when they find students' cheating escalating.</p>

<p>And that escalation of cheating is what worries me about those of you who think it's okay to cheat. People who end up cheating their employees (stealing pensions, etc.), cheating the government (tax evasion, etc.), cheating individuals (charging hidden fees, using inferior materials in construction, etc.), cheating the public ("fudged" figures in medical testing, etc.) --- they all thought what they were doing was justified. I am sure many of you will disagree with my point of view, but if I can get even a couple of you to reconsider the acceptability of cheating ... it will be worth the nasty comments that I am sure some of you will be posting in response.</p>

92

<p>What so many people don't realize is that taking care of the "small" issues, such as cheating, will stop the big things from occurring. Get away with this, and you think you can get away with something else. As a teacher, I see this all the time. This "pick your arguments" concept only means you will have to deal with the big things later on. I don't understand how someone can see cheating as so minor, however. It hurts other people. Cheaters take away other people's jobs, scholarships, acceptances to college, etc. Is there a lot of cheating? Yes. Should something be done about it? Yes. Perhaps having parents that care about their kids' integrity would be a start, instead of the parents that come in loaded for bear with lawyers, and threats when Johnny gets caught. You wouldn't believe what so many parents put teachers through if they enforce the cheating rules. And this is nothing new, but I would say it is more rampant nowadays. I remember when I went to school K-8 in one building, there was a group of girls that were the cute, teacher's pets, and some modelled, and they always hung out together. Each girl was reponsible for the homework in one subject, and they arrived at school early every day and copied from the others. They always sat together and acted angelic, never getting into trouble, so when test time came, the teachers never monitored them, but we were watched with eagle eyes. Well, senior year, after I was Editor of Lit Magazine, and had a scholarship, and was headed for college, I went back to see 8th grade teacher who prided herself on the success of her prior students. She brushed me off - I used to talk when bored, etc., (the other girls obviously were never bored)- and wanted to know how they were doing, her angels. I got the perfect revenge when I told her that one was about to fail, so she transferred to a secretarial school, one was unmarried and pregnant, another also went to secretarial school, and the fourth had to retake a few classes after failing and wouldn't be graduating with us. In HS, they couldn't be in the same classes together, so...I told her that all the cheating they had done in elementary caused them to be unprepared for HS. No reply from teacher, as she ushered me out.</p>

93

<p>I think it's funny how cool some people here think they sound when they say they cheat or that cheating is ok. Cheating is for people too stupid to get good grades without it.</p>

94

<p>What it really boils down to in the end is integrity. In truth, if you don't have integrity what do you have?</p>

95

<p>Perhaps if some of the cheaters became the cheated they would see it differently. The student from our school that cheated (as in documented cheating, and documented time in ISS for this offense more than once--not hearsay) and won the over $10,000 in scholarship money by using grades and class rank that should have been dramatically lowered because of the cheating, did not feel bad about cheating at all. It was quite profitable in their book. I'm sure the person that came in second behind them for that money didn't feel the same way. </p>

<p>I find it appalling that our young people are becoming part of a culture that accepts and embraces cheating --instead of rejecting those elders in our society that have been caught cheating. There is a new scandal every day.</p>

96

<p>I admit that once in a while I let people cheat. It's so rampant in our school it's hard to find a student that never does, in fact I would say nearly impossible. All through freshman year I was appalled by the cheating going on. After skipping two years of Spanish I was working very hard to scrape by with As in Spanish 4, and I did every last piece of homework and stuided for at least an hour a night. The girls who sat next to me would copy off me shamelessly and I would cry when I told my Mom about it becasue it was so unfair and so upsetting. Slowly I got used to people copying off of me because I was #1 in my class, etc. This year I got so sick of people going to such lengths to copy off me I just let them. I figure it's impossible to prevent and it's not going to hurt me (my school doesn't curve) so except on AP Tests, SATs, and finals, I don't cover my paper up. </p>

<p>The worst I've ever done is writing the initials of Presidents Hayes-Coolidge on my hand for an APUSH quiz. Turns out just writing them helped me remember and I didn't even have to look at them. I did feel guilty though and I kept feeling like my teacher knew. It wasn't fun.</p>

<p>Personally, this story didn't even surprise me. It's actually much worse in my school, and everybody's been so desensitized to it nobody cares anymore. Good for this boy for sticking up, but I know it would never happen at my school.</p>

97

<p>One thing that confuses me in this thread is the outrage towards the “snitches” for ruining the academic careers of the three girls on the grounds that their aversion to cheating is unreasonable and that cheating is a part of life and human nature. This seems contradictory to me. Couldn’t the behavior of the snitches- the tattling- be similarly excused as typical human behavior? Isn’t it as unreasonable to expect a few teenagers to restrain themselves from complaining about disruptive behavior during their exam as it is to expect cheaters not to cheat and life to be fair? Additionally, if any system- the school administration, a company, college, etc- wishes to enforce a rule by emphasizing the reality of the consequences, they will frequently do so by making an example, rarely in a manner that seems very fair. The consequences of cheating are as much “life” as the cheating itself in that case, no? So why the sympathy for the cheaters and distaste for the snitches? What makes one less deserving of becoming better acquainted with all those harsh and unfair realities of life? Even if one is of the opinion that cheating is not wrong and that people are only deserving of consequences if they are dumb enough to get caught or otherwise put themselves in a bad situation (which seems to be the gist of many of these posts), the cheaters are arguably the dumber of the two parties. They put themselves at risk for a permanent black mark that may well follow them through their academic careers (even though their athlete status may save them). Sure, the snitches put themselves at risk to attract animosity from some and lose a few fair-weather friends perhaps, e.g. the kind of friend who would befriend you merely to ensure you don’t snitch à la Hyakku… and then what? They are high schoolers soon to be college freshmen. The animosity isn’t likely to follow them in the way a black mark might. The fact that they have to retake the test may actually be welcome to those who felt they were not sufficiently prepared the first time, especially if the cheaters were as disruptive in their chatter as claimed. The people who did well the first time will be bothered but will likely do well a second time and be done with it. Worst case scenario: Their efforts are in vain, the cheaters don’t receive that black mark, they lose 3 hours of their lives retaking the exam, and they are ostracized by some in their junior and/or senior year before heading off to a school where none of last year’s circus matters. </p>

<p>To Hyakku:
The inconsistencies in the accounts you mention are not so glaring. The initial Baltimore Sun article somewhat misleadingly states that the boy has witnessed especially audacious incidents of cheating in past classes but had seen “nothing like one earlier this month,” as if to imply he has now bore witness to it. However, the article does not specify him as a witness; it only establishes that he is so incensed as to spearhead a survey on behalf of other “top ranked students.” The parent’s account, if to be believed, says it is the actual witnesses, of which Thompson is not one, that are being lauded as heroes. The student account offers the opinion that Thompson is insufferable, which is quite possibly true, could just as easily be attributed to a more personal grudge, and either way does not contradict the other accounts.</p>

<p>
[quote]
No. There are a ton of other factors that go into this decision. Affirmative action, ECs, Essays, GPA, class ranking, etc.

[/quote]

I think what Jarn intended to say is that the student with higher marks will be selected over the other, all things being essentially equal, i.e. supposing the students project equally amiable and intelligent personas through their essays, are of similar socio-economic/racial backgrounds (which is not unlikely if both attend the same school). Even in the event that the students are seriously inequal for whatever reason- say, different genders, both applying a tech school with few women-, the honest student is still cheated of the opportunity to assert his superiority in that one academic aspect. No one should exactly be scarred by being kept from that dream school for this or any other reason, but I think we can agree that it’s a shame for the less naturally capable student to attend. If nothing else, it’s an inefficient allocation of resources. It will become more difficult to cheat regularly, particularly if one is one of a few cheaters who gamed the system to get in in a sea of Ivy-bound-since-preschool, over-worked, “self-righteous dicks” that don’t take too kindly to anyone who does not work as they do. The student will most likely struggle, even drop out.</p>

<p>Also I think it’s a bit inaccurate to say that the honest student with remain at the top if he or she is indeed the best. There are many ways to cheat that bypass the top student’s exam while setting the curve- consulting your own notes where notes are not allowed, buying or stealing exams, etc.</p>

98

<p>^^^^Bravo.</p>

99

<p>I am so proud of the people who told on the cheaters. To cheat on a little quiz in science class is a little thing, but to outright cheat on the AP exam is huge. If they knew they could get away with that, then there obviously has been a lot of cheating prior to this incident.</p>

<p>They may have cheated, but they are only cheating themselves. If they had gotten a 5 on the exam and skipped out of a class in college, they would have been behind anyway, because they didn't know the material.</p>

<p>The fact that people had cellphones and other devices and were communicating during the multiple choice surprises me. The proctor definitely should have been walking around.</p>

<p>The people who cheated should be ashamed, because that is not the way to go through life. While most of the top people in the high school graduating probably cheated their way through, the true people who deserve recognition are the people who spent countless nights studying for their classes, not just looking at the answers before taking the test. The school should lessen their expectations about APs so that the students don't feel so pressured to cheat.</p>

<p>I ask this to the school- Which is worse- having less students take APs and succeed or having a lot of students succeed and take APs but have a reputation as being a school in which students cheat their way through? I don't think any school wants to be in the newspaper or online for having their students cheat- especially on a huge test like the AP exam.</p>

100

<p>"Cheating is a disgusting problem and its becoming an epidemic, as competition heats up. At my D's school, a highly competitive public school that is nationally ranked, and whose graduates regularly get into Ivy League schools and elite colleges, the most rampant cheaters are kids in the top of the class. People not satisfied with being number 15 in a class of 400, trying to become number 1 or 2. (this is an example, not an actual person).</p>

<p>In one AP class (US History) the teacher caught onto a scheme and actually stapled three tests together from three separate kids, and marked them all F, and they got the message. They werent from the bottom of the class, but the top.</p>

<p>Sadly, many parents not only condone it but tell kids how to do it. Saying "its just life" may be accurate, but its not acceptable. We cannot roll over and accept what is unacceptable.</p>

<p>It starts in the home. I am not being sanctimonious (and I would be DEVASTATED if I learned that ANY of my children had EVER cheated on anything), but we taught our kids its better to get a C and "own it" than to get an "A" that belongs to someone else. Its that simple. </p>

<p>We also teach our children that character trumps credentials. And employers ought to emphasize that as well. Principals, teachers, ministers, everyone ought to be shouting from the mountaintops that character is more important than all the riches in the world, all the credentials you can acquire.</p>

<p>I know people who live in Severna Park. I know their kids went to that High School (a few years ago). I trust they were not part of that culture of cheating.</p>

<p>Cheaters never prosper. They always get caught in the end. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow......but perhaps the next day. And when they do, their reputation will be tarnished forever. And maybe it will be in business where "cheating" can land you in the unemployment line or in jail.</p>

<p>My D knows a boy, a High School ace baseball pitcher, and NHS member, who openly bragged in the hallways a few years ago about cheating on an exam. Everytime I see that boy, I scowl at him. He doesnt know why I do that. But I know his little game. And some day, he will get caught, probably as an adult and pay a very heavy price. </p>

<p>Cheating is not usually a one time event. Its like gambling or drug abuse. Once you start, you cant stop until you hit rock bottom or its too late.</p>

<p>I dont understand why the kids who cheated in Severna Park are even allowed to retake the AP exam. If they cheated on it, they should be given a ZERO for their score and a note affixed to their college board records.</p>

<p>Cheating is FILTH. Its SCUM. And we should NEVER tolerate it"</p>

<p>wow.....seriously...cheating is not that big of a deal. I have cheated and never been caught, its not that big of a deal, and no im not addicted, it seems like u and ur daughter are the ones who have a problem slut</p>