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<p>kelsmom-you are living in a dream world if you think that "most kids don't cheat in most places". In fact, I think the opposite statement, that most kids cheat in most places, is true. Even though your daugher might say that nobody she knows cheats...just look at all the highschoolers on this board saying that they are of a VERY SMALL minority of non-cheaters, or that they are part of a large group OF cheaters.</p>
<p>A school in my district was discovered cheating on the psych and us exams and they might have their scores canceled. They were using the princeton review prep book and passing it around thier table during the test! They banned the school from ap exams and now the students have to go to other locations to take thier ap tests.</p>
<p>adorkable, I feel awful for you. I know that doesn't exactly help, but I think it's so unfair to those of you who are not cheating.</p>
<p>evrytime, the students who cheated were wrong, wrong, wrong. But the adults who allowed it to happen --- and the adults who are allowing all of these cheating incidents cited on this thread to happen --- are wrong, as well. Why are they allowing this?! Who the heck is in charge? They need to be removed from proctoring, for sure. But the administration at these schools needs to do something about the teachers who are allowing this to happen. It is NOT okay. How on earth can we expect students to do the right thing if the adults around them do not do the right thing themselves?</p>
<p>My teacher spent the whole hour yelling at us because he had discovered a "cheating ring" on our last essay project. He threatened to make the whole class rewrite the (10 page!) essay but ended up not following through. He is failing everybody who cheated...whew, am I glad I'm honest. :D I would NOT want that guy mad at me!</p>
<p>Cheating on tests are wrong. Unless you're telling me that your dad's life depends on whether you get full marks for that test or you're in any other desperate circumstance (NO, NOT THAT YOU CANNOT GET INTO HYPSM), cheating is W.R.O.N.G., indefensible, and unjustifiable.</p>
<p>There are the cheaters that don't get caught - they're not smart, they are cunning. While there is some twisted genius involved, nothing detracts from the fact that what they did was wrong. They took a test which was supposed to be a test of ability and turned it into a challenge to cheat. In curved tests, this could result in a few or some getting undeserved 3s or 4s when they should be getting higher grades (I don't know what grades high schoolers get, I'm not from a US high school) In non-curved tests, the difference (small or not, that's not my point) will manifest itself in some other way, in college admissions, in subtle pyschological conditioning (I can cheat, and I can get away with it - Dudes, it's not about overreaction, this attitude can exert a powerful influence on one's life).</p>
<p>Some people think it's a problem that can't be cured - it's some sort of minor crime - which will happen all the time no matter how many people curse and swear at the cheaters or give them high fives for their cunning. I agree. But having said that, our attitude should be an equally inexorable antipathy towards these acts, simply in the interest of fairness. What the boy did may have seemed over the top to some, or completely justified to some. Whatever his motives are, I don't know. But some scrutiny of some palpable signs of cheating should in long run, still be beneficial because it keeps people vigilant.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to put things in black and white/judge people. But I believe in principles. Before anyone starts smirking, and furiously starts thinking of some incredibly inspired comment that will make everything I said sound like childish and artless drivel from a kid who hasn't seen the real world, I'd say that in the real world, be aware that cheating happens and it could happen to you, AND you could be tempted to do it. But take measures to guard against these influences, and keep the integrity. In the business world, yes, it can be tough. I mean, who is to say 'white lies' (a form of cheating???) aren't vital to the hundreds of i-bankers who want to make it to MD level? It all boils down to personal convictions. Yes, we lie, but do it when we really need to, not because it's the MOST CONVENIENT thing to do. A person who can do that will gain self respect, without losing his job, without compromising his principles. (Overreaction/linking to totally unrelated events again, some of you? I'm sorry to extend this beyond the scope of a high school, but cheating itself is not confined to high schools, as so many learned folks have pointed out here) </p>
<p>On a high school context, part of growing up is learning to fail and then learning from the failures. Learning to take failure is part of growing up, learning to accept the superiority of others in some areas/talents is part of growing up, and it helps to foster humility. Cheating is a crutch that many use as a way to get out of these life lessons - many end up learning the hard way later in the working jungle.</p>
<p>Sigh, what a pity. What a pity.</p>
<p>high school cheating is like teenage drinking. It's not going away and students can't waste their time trying to tell on everybody. But i do believe that it IS the teachers job to do their best to catch cheaters. And on major curved exams it's very important that if people notice others cheating big time, not just something written on their hand or looking off someone else's paper, that they tell the test proctor as soon as the test is over.</p>
<p>They shouldn't get to retake the test, now it's not standardized.</p>
<p>kelsmom- I don't think the proctors knew and when they found out they were the ones that reported it. </p>
<p>Our test room isn't even a classroom, it's a library where we sit at actual bench-like table on bench seats. People could easily talk during the test and get away with it. The library is huge and seperated into seperate rooms and there is only two proctors in the whole library of anywhere 100-200 kids per ap test.</p>
<p>Admittedly, I only read through the first 50-ish posts in this thread before I really got too frustrated with the glib and superficial attitudes to continue. Wow (I do have to say, one of the foremost thoughts in my mind was "thank God I'm out of high school"...I can't stand the "this kid must have been a loser" theory, which I'm sure will lead most of its proponents to judge me similarly).</p>
<p>I came across a few comments like "if they need to cheat on a test, they probably aren't that bright, and won't go to a top school anyways," but some people are only thinking about one side of cheating. I knew a girl who was #1 in her large public HS and she had a very, very lighthearted attitude about cheating. She didn't need to do it much herself (although she did, whenever the need arose), but she made money for years by writing essays and doing homework for others (or just letting others copy answers). She bragged about how her AP calculus class did their take home tests in a group (and go figure, she--best in her class--did not do well on the exam). This was a girl who got into very good schools, but had a major shock when she got to college and couldn't handle the work. And as for those who do the work well and allow others to cheat off of it, I see this as being equally immoral. I'm sure many, as the girl I mention here, will disagree completely.</p>
<p>There was a big article a few years ago about a girl (fairly wealthy and prominent, as I recall) who graduated from USC and had her diploma stripped after a non-student came forward saying that she had done all of the girl's college homework. Interesting story, if anyone can find it.</p>
<p>Admittedly, I only read through the first 50-ish posts in this thread before I really got too frustrated with the glib and superficial attitudes to continue. Wow (I do have to say, one of the foremost thoughts in my mind was "thank God I'm out of high school"...I can't stand the "this kid must have been a loser" theory, which I'm sure will lead most of its proponents to judge me similarly).</p>
<p>I came across a few comments like "if they need to cheat on a test, they probably aren't that bright, and won't go to a top school anyways," but some people are only thinking about one side of cheating. I knew a girl who was #1 in her large public HS and she had a very, very lighthearted attitude about cheating. She didn't need to do it much herself (although she did, whenever the need arose), but she made money for years by writing essays and doing homework for others (or just letting others copy answers). She bragged about how her AP calculus class did their take home tests in a group (and go figure, she--best in her class--did not do well on the exam). This was a girl who got into very good schools, but had a major shock when she got to college and couldn't handle the work. I do think that it's very good when schools do NOT rank students; it removes some internal pressure (i.e. the non-existent, but all-too-real-feeling difference between #3 and #15 in a class of 1,000).</p>
<p>There was a big article a few years ago about a girl (fairly wealthy and prominent, as I recall) who graduated from USC and had her diploma stripped after a non-student came forward saying that she had done all of the girl's college homework. Interesting story, if anyone can find it.</p>
<p>And one final clarification, bordering on redundancy: this article is not about some student cheating on one pop quiz and another student tattling (not that this should be shrugged off, anyway). It's about a pervasive culture of cheating--the kind that can cause longterm effects--and the school's disturbing indifference to the problem. And judging by the results of Peter's surveys, his fellow students agree with him, rather than scorn him. And yes, cheating does happen and no, not every single occurrence generates press. But what's wrong with one particular occurrence being held up as an example? Saying "well this happens at all schools" does nothing to diminish the arguments or better the situation presented in this particular case.</p>