Sex, Drugs, & Rock @ ND (minus Drugs and Rock)

<p>To anybody, really, especially those at ND -- I was reading in the du lac (or whatever the student manual is entitled) and on page 95 read the following:</p>

<p>"Because a genuine and complete expression of love through sex requires a commitment to a total living and sharing together of two persons in marriage, the University believes that sexual union should occur only in marriage. Students found in violation of this policy shall be subject to disciplinary suspension or permanent dismissal."</p>

<p>Does anyone know how strictly this is enforced? Has any student recently been expelled because he or she had sex on university grounds? I've never attended a religiously affiliated university, so I don't know how these things would work. Any insight?</p>

<p>Thanks much :P</p>

<p>You will get kicked out of the dorm or worse if they catch you. And that is a fact. </p>

<p>That being said, it's happened often enough without the participants getting caught. But it's a risk you need to be willing to take.</p>

<p>Oh du Lac...gotta love it. It's true you can be kicked out of the dorms, or even the university, if you are caught having premarital sex. However, I know for a fact things do happen and I've never heard of anyone being caught before.</p>

<p>I don't know of anyone getting kicked out, and I have had some friends who have been unwed mothers (though that is very rare here). I don't think sex gets caught much here, but it is important to know that there are consequences. This isn't like a school I visited (which shall remain nameless) where the RA had a bag of condoms outside his door for his residents.</p>

<p>In the Catholic church there are all the rules and encyclicals and canon law and all sorts of other stuff we are supposed to believe it that gives me a headache to think about it. Catholics as individuals can and will exercise independent judgment on a number of them. No one's checking. There are no "sin police." Thank God.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, as a Catholic institution, Notre Dame does adhere to those rules, policies and whatnot. Du Lac is the codification of Church teaching on sexual morality. I was a student in the early '80's, remember--not exactly the Victorian era as alumni of my era can no doubt attest. Du Lac was breeched. All the time. It was, in fact, somewhat of a running joke. So it isn't like it's going to get in the way of two young adults smart enough to get into Notre Dame... What is does do, however, is prevent sexual liaisons from being the expected thing. Even if only 15% of the student body is still virgin
--and I'd bet it's higher than that--it's worth having Du Lac, if for no other reason than to affirm the life choices of those who do choose to follow the church's teachings. Can't even fathom how many stupid mistakes and life-altering experiences it has prevented. </p>

<p>Our culture glamorizes hook-up sex in a blatant and often disturbing way. We are inundated with sexial liaisions in our media. We are not, however, likewise inundated with images of the emotional cost and consequences, the tremendous risks involved in such hookups. Hooray for Notre Dame for standing for something decent.</p>

<p>Has my opinion changed since I was my daughter's age? Sure it has. Trust that I have absolutely no room to talk with my kids--which is the position many of us are in our generation. How can we tell our kids that, for their own good, they should not engage in behaviors in which we ourselves engaged? Yet that is the pickle our generation is in...and has put ourselves in. Alas, we more than anyone know how self- and other-destructive some of the behavior can be. </p>

<p>I don't know what to tell my kids when they ask about two people who are deeply in love who are considering crossing the threshold of premarital sex. Like humanae vitae, I guess it depends on the situation. Most of the sex in the "I am Charlotte Simmons" hook-up collegiate culture, however, is not based on love, but on feeling good. If we could walk away from sexual trysts seeing them as little more than an action like taking a shower, we'd be okay. But our emotions get wrapped up in all sorts of different ways. All sorts of people who have no business being together end up together not because they are truly in love, but because they had sex early and often and mistook that for thinking that they were.</p>

<p>So, before we go to trashing ND for being so wildly uncool, we might want to think about the lives that will be spared a lot of pain because they decided to hold back when holding back is the wisest course of action.</p>

<p>I believe I speak for a lot of folks of my generation when I say that the reason I hope my kids do follow Du Lac is not because I'm a hypocrite, but because, as has been the case for all their lives, I want them to be spared the pain of repeating mistakes I made a generation ago.</p>

<p>The more I think about it, the more I believe the spike is applications isn't despite DuLac and the university's Catholic identity, but precisely because of it. I want my kids at ND not just because I think it's a great place in many ways, but because I know it is a place where there's a real chance to live a spiritual and healthy lifestyle without being left completely on the sidelines. As my son puts it, lots of kids party and hook up there and it is considered cool. Nothing rare there. But it is also a good place to be if you just don't feel like partying and hooking up. There's plenty to do, and plenty of like-minded people to hang with.</p>

<p>ddjones --</p>

<p>I don't believe in casual sex/hooking up -- turns my stomach, honestly. I wasn't thinking about that when I asked the question. </p>

<p>I do believe in premarital sex as an expression of love -- a love that my current girlfriend and I were in for at least a year before we took part in "sexual union".</p>

<p>I'm agnostic but was raised Catholic (the "old Catholic"), mostly by my grandmother -- my parents, though, raised me to be a "good", level-headed, introspective person. I don't drink, do drugs, cheat on tests, so I'm beginning to think that this place of serenity/morality might be nice to be a part of -- Catholic or not.</p>

<p>I know what you mean, rainman. That's why I can't give an answer to my kids about what they should do if they are mutually consenting and deeply in love, other than that they need to leave it up to their own judgment. As stated, two people in love who are smart enough to get into Notre Dame are smart enough to figure out ways around du Lac. Lots of them do. I'll leave it at that.</p>

<p>I learned the term "sexile" in "I Am Charlotte Simmons", but experienced it long before that. I shared a one bedroom apartment off campus over the summer, and my roommate had met a summer fling. Often, she would get home before I did. That meant I got the couch in the living room. She said I was welcome to sleep in my bed in the bedroom; I shouldn't be bothered by them being in there, but who was she trying to kid? It got annoying after awhile, but I never confronted her on it, because at least we had a nice living room couch. That wouldn't have happened when we lived in the dorm, because she'd have worried about getting caught with him (girls dorms, at least then, were LOTS stricter than guys ones). Once we had an apartment, however, there were no rules. Parietals couldn't be my excuse to get my room back. So I was "sexiled". Plenty of times. </p>

<p>What I think parietals do is to cut down quite a bit on casual sex and hooking up--although it still happens, too. </p>

<p>Judging by what you say, rainman, you will love Notre Dame. I hope you get in! My daughter complains a lot about cheating at school--although she would never turn anyone in. There are times, she says, when she is in a distinct minority. It isn't that she fears consequences--it's apparently pretty easy to get away with in certain situations. It's that she couldn't live with herself if she did. </p>

<p>I'm sure there's cheating, drugs, sex--pretty much any form of decadence and debauchery that goes on at any other college campus. At ND, though, I think you are going to find a lot more people who don't do those things, so you can have a good group of people you can hang with. Kind of like the cross country team...they don't drink because it's hard to get up at 5 a.m. on a Saturday to get on a bus then run 3.1 miles of a hill race with a hangover, and they view their health as a competitive asset. Most of the other seniors are partying like crazy. So the cross country kids hang together, and enjoy themselves just as much as the partiers do...if not more.
Lots of those kinds of kids at Notre Dame these days....</p>

<p>wow this in the most overbearing college rule ive ever heard of, if anyone here is a fan of making your own choices in life and not conforming to 1000 yr old religious rule that tries to strip you of your individuality, take the nd letter, burn it, throw it in the trash, bury the trash can in a remote area, and never look back.</p>

<p>How incredibly intellectual and liberal of you. You are a true reactionary.</p>

<p>Im guessing you didnt get in.</p>

<p>Besides, its not enforced.</p>

<p>ddjones -- I haven't applied (yet) -- I'm a freshman at BU this year seeking transfer to anywhere that's unadulterated by noise pollution and carbon monoxide. I applied to a few selective schools this semester but expect the worst -- ND might be in my next round, thanks to all the great things I've heard about it. Thanks all :P</p>

<p>Personally I think the authority figures here are way more concerned with breaking parietals than sexual activity. I would think that catching a couple in the act would be very embarrassing for all parties involved, and as such they don't really worry about what goes on in the rooms before parietals begin.</p>

<p>I'm a freshman at BU this year seeking transfer to anywhere that's unadulterated by noise pollution and carbon monoxide.</p>

<p>^^ haha that gave me a good laugh</p>

<p>icsmatt-"take the nd letter, burn it, throw it in the trash, bury the trash can in a remote area, and never look back."</p>

<p>harsh, especially about a school you haven't seen ;)</p>

<p>A friend of mine here just found out a couple weeks ago that she is pregnant. She told her family over Easter break, and told our dorm rector a few days ago. She said our rector has been incredibly supportive. Now that there's nothing anyone can do about it, they just want to make sure she keeps the baby (which she is planning on doing).</p>

<p>So yes, it does happen here....</p>

<p>If you want an overbearing university to laugh at, take a good look at the rules of Bob Jones University or Pensacola Christian. They expel kids for not wearing ties.</p>

<p>ahah Bob Jones!</p>

<p>I had a good laugh reading there website</p>

<ul>
<li><p>their website*</p></li>
<li><p>feels retarded-</p></li>
</ul>

<p>
[quote]
"Because a genuine and complete expression of love through sex requires a commitment to a total living and sharing together of two persons in marriage, the University believes that sexual union should occur only in marriage. Students found in violation of this policy shall be subject to disciplinary suspension or permanent dismissal."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I find it absolutely encouraging that ND has this policy, and I have a much greater respect for ND after reading it. Without this policy, ND would not be an observant Catholic institution. By having it (and presumably enforcing it), the very principles on which ND was founded are preserved.</p>

<p>How long the administration is able to maintain this policy will be a testament to their will and fidelity. It will be no easy task in light of the fact that many ND students disregard the principles and that nearly all universities of ND's selectivity treat sex like conversation.</p>

<p>btw i got in w a good package, but after hearing about the policies of the university, no way no how.............</p>