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<p>NO NO NO. NO. </p>
<p>Raping is NOT having sex with. It’s raping. Rape is about POWER not about sex. So yes, it is very possible for these men to be completely straight and RAPE men and have SEX with women.</p>
<p>“mini, if the men are raping other men how can they be “heterosexual” by any reasonable definition of the term? If such men usually have sex with women, but at times rape other men, then they would be more accurately described as “bisexual,” wouldn’t they?”</p>
<p>Rape is a crime of power. Invading heterosexual soldiers raped men, women, and children for millenia. It has nothing at all to do with sexual attraction.</p>
<p>Agree with above.
Rape is assault, it isnt sex.</p>
<p>Regarding the article to which Crew Dad linked, I think what is going on here is that this is a multi-faceted problem that needs a multi-pronged approach. Emily Yoffe’s article isn’t any more myopic than the articles that insist that he ONLY thing to be done is prosecute the perps, or educate about what consent really is. </p>
<p>It seems to me that ALL of those things need to be done, plus others: empower girls and women to realize that pleasing the boys by any means is not something to strive for; educate boys and men that consent requires a conscious, enthusiastic partner; educate both sexes that binge drinking leads to bad consequences of all kinds; educate both sexes that a person who is being bullied or shamed or who is dangerously drunk needs to be protected, not exploited; and vigorously report and prosecute rapes. It is not A or B or C, it is all of the above.</p>
<p>I’d be happy to turn this around and tell college men not to binge drink if they don’t want to rape or be accused of rape - those statistics work too. Or people of both genders not to binge drink if they want to be exposed to less rape.</p>
<p>NavalTradition, Yoffe’s article does give an example of this. A drunk young man who was accused of rape and went to trial was found not guilty-- several witnesses to his drunken sex with the accuser testified that it looked entirely non-coercive and consensual.</p>
<p>I feel being proactive leads to less problems as opposed to being reactive. I don’t think it’s victim blaming at all.</p>
<p>I like Consolation’s post #64.</p>
<p>Stunning that Amanda Hess’s response article restates “don’t get drunk” as telling young women to “skip out on parties.”</p>
<p>Who said skip out on parties? Go to all the parties you want, dance on the tables, drink one beer that you brought, meet new people, whatever. You can go to parties without doing shots and getting wasted. Sheesh. I get that 18-year-olds may not know that, but adult Slate contributors should.</p>
<p>Marian, I specifically said “avoid” which I understand would allow for situations that require the action. The precautions I stated applies to everyone not just women. They are not restrictions. I live in a neighborhood where most of my neighbors leave their doors unlocked. My doors are always locked, alarm is on, and perimeter cameras are recording and visible. These are precautions I take to avoid becoming a victim. These are all risk reductions not restrictions on me. To become a victim, the perpetrators have to overcome many obstacles including a security screen door. As for my neighbor, they only have to turn the doorknob. But if I have to leave for work late at night, I have to open that door and take a risk. This goes for anyone who may have to take a necessary risk. But getting drunk???</p>
<p>Rapists are evil because their crimes lead to decades of consequences. Don’t get drunk and avoid becoming a potential easier target.</p>
<p>Its closely associated with sexual assault. And yet were reluctant to tell women to stop doing it."
This article is sickeningly sexist in a way that makes me, a guy, cringe. The precautions one takes before drinking falls on both genders. It would be a double standard to condone drinking for women but mention nothing about guys, as if its expected to happen. This is on par with what is going in other parts in the world: “Women wearing short skirts and other promiscuous attire should stop because it entices men to sexually assault them.” Responsibility falls equally on both parties to be around people they trust and to have at least one sober person to look out and care for them if it is not in the safety of their own home. Drinking will never go away. Sexual assaults will never cease. So let’s focus on the environment these activities take place and making sure resources are available to both genders in the event of a sexual assault. This is a terrible source for news by the way.</p>
<p>Redeyejedi, I believe the reason I can’t jump on the bandwagon that it is a shared responsibility is my belief that being drunk doesn’t cause men to want to rape. I believe that many of these men have violent tendencies and seek victims. A drunk woman doesn’t entice men to want to rape her either. However, she may be less able to defend herself. That may be enticing to a rapist.</p>
<p>I’m not going to even read the article because the same thing has been written hundreds of times by hundreds of different people. It’s not an original thought by any stretch, and the information contained isn’t worth the time it takes to read it. This kind of topic, wherever it’s posted, always attracts some of the most obnoxiously thick-headed responses you’ll ever read, but I’ll come in and respond anyway. </p>
<p>Statement of fact:
Most females who are sexually assaulted while drunk would not have been sexually assaulted in that period of time if they had not been drinking. If you do not accept this statement as fact then don’t respond to me. You are not worth my time. </p>
<p>Now, let me try to be as clear as possible, admitting this fact does NOT imply that the sexual assault should be blamed on the female who was sexually assaulted. That would be ridiculous. There is (and should be) an expectation that you will not be sexually assaulted, regardless if you have been drinking or not. An analogy: imagine you are taking a walk and someone mugs you. You probably would not have been mugged if you had stayed inside. Admitting that you probably would not have been mugged if you had stayed inside does not imply that you are to blame for the mugging because you went outside. </p>
<p>Now, you might ask, “Why should I read an article about this? It doesn’t seem to say anything worth reading.” As far as I can tell, that’s correct. This article, in it’s hundreds of reincarnations, is not worth reading. It does not say anything of any importance. </p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>*Most females who are sexually assaulted while drunk would not have been sexually assaulted in that period of time if they had not been drinking. If you do not accept this statement as fact then don’t respond to me. You are not worth my time. *</p>
<p>If you expect others to accept a statistic and not assume that it is bogus, provide a link to source.</p>
<p>The study that Yoffe cites claims that 80% of campus sexual assaults involve alcohol. Even assuming that this statistic includes women who consumed some alcohol but not to the level of impairment, that’s a striking enough number to at least suggest a pretty strong correlation. </p>
<p>It is also, however, common sense. People are more susceptible to any number of bad things while drunk; why wouldn’t the same be true of sexual assault?</p>
<p>If you limit yourself to discussing college students, it is true that either or both the perp & the victim may have been using alcohol.
But considering 29 % of rapes are against children 12 & under, there are obviously MANY rapes that are not dependent on the victim using alcohol. Not to say that the rapist didn’t use alcohol to amplify his behavior.
I have been raped, & I was not drinking or using drugs.
I also wasn’t a college student.
They were part of the thousands of unreported rapes however.
I wonder if college students are more likely to report rapes than other segments of the population.
They seem to have better resources & information than a middle school student or someone their same age but not in college.</p>
<p>I didn’t read the article. I have read every post in this thread. As a father of a 17 year old girl and as a person who remembers what the culture and party scene was like when I was that age this topic evokes very strong emotion.
I appreciate the having blinders on while walking across the street analogy. In my opinion it is somewhat flawed rationale to focus/insist on what should be rather than what is. I am not suggesting that effort, energy and resources not be directed at that component of the issue, not by any means! In the mean time our young women are best served to have the necessary awareness and exercise the appropriate precautions to protect themselves.</p>
<p>The thing about drinking till drunk is that being raped or accused of rape could be the least of the person’s problems. Death is significantly worse and if you are so drunk that you are not in control of your body and your mind, you could die. I told both of my girls before they went to college to close their eyes and imagine me getting the phone call that they were dead, imagine telling relatives, imagine the funeral, imagine life afterward for the survivors. There is absolutely no valid reason to get this drunk and when you are that drunk, you can’t be having fun, either.</p>
<p>Giving them the idea that they wont get raped if they and every one around them abstains, is like telling them if they wear a bike helmet they wont get in an accident.</p>
<p>The studies dont seem to argue that the college women were drunk, only that they had been drinking.
Does drinking a glass of wine = drunk?
Does being in an atmosphere where others are drinking, indicate foolhardy behavior?
<a href=“College Drinking, Changing the Culture”>College Drinking, Changing the Culture;
<p>So far, my daughter is not a drinker (she’s a first year and didn’t party at all in HS), but she knows that if she chooses to drink to never have more than 2 and never put her drink out of her sight. While this won’t guarantee she won’t get raped, it will certainly reduce the risk. And that’s what the article is about, reducing the risk.</p>
<p>There’s no question in my mind that men who rape are criminals and wholly at fault, but anything we can do to reduce our chances of becoming a victim of such lowlifes is a good idea. This isn’t taking the blame for the rape should it occur, but taking the responsibility for one’s safety.</p>
<p>I do not want my daughter to trust some guy not to drink. I want her to choose to drink wisely (no more than 2) or not at all.</p>
<p>What the studies seems to illustrate is if one ( either victim or perpetrator)is drinking, they both are.
Wont matter if they only have one or two drinks, they will be perceived as " drinking" and in the rapists mind " fair game".</p>