@Portercat Interestingly my other D who is a college freshman LAX player now never considered York – but I realized now that the team is very very competitive in D3 - so we must have eliminated it based on the merit guidelines’ so I was very surprised at how much my last D was offered (she is totally not as good a stats student as the LAX player) - they have like a 6 point ACT spread!
OP- it’s ok to apply to a college your son hasn’t visited. It’s ok to apply to an affordable, “likely to get in” college in another state and defer the discussion about “is 5 hours too far away” to April when he needs to make a decision. And it’s ok to go to college where the dorms don’t have AC- there will be two hot weeks in September and by the time it gets hot in May your son will be packed up and heading to a summer job.
It’s NOT ok to back yourself into a corner with loads of parent loans, plus your son’s maximum student loans-- just because you all decided that three colleges was the right number of colleges to apply to. In your situation- needing merit aid and likely qualifying for need-based aid from generous private colleges- it’s not enough schools. There ARE colleges out there that you can afford. Maybe the dorms aren’t as nice as your son would like. Maybe it will involve a longer drive home at Christmas (or two buses).
But ask yourself if 15 years worth of debt is worth a nicer dorm- for 8 months a year- not even a full year.
In my house- that would be a no-brainer. You need more schools, and the posters here have come up with some excellent suggestion. If Pitt is unaffordable, take that off the table ASAP. It’s just going to cloud your thinking.
Is there really a logical reason why he can’t apply to a few affordable/generous colleges in Ohio? And Elizabethtown and Temple seem like good options as well.
Ships ROI is rated 559 by Money Magazine…
http://time.com/money/best-colleges/profile/shippensburg-university-of-pennsylvania/#
Pitt is better at #331 but the difference is not a deal breaker as Ship has decent value.
http://time.com/money/best-colleges/profile/university-of-pittsburgh-pittsburgh-campus/#
Some believe that these college ratings get it right.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/07/13/money-magazines-new-college-rankings-finally-get-it-right-for-students/?utm_term=.1ab13b445ba5
Keep an open mind…there are good finds to be had in many locations/systems including the PASSHE/Ship.
I was looking at the schools with ABET accredited computer engineering in PA.
Elizabethtown was on the list.
He can still apply to places and see what aid they will give him.
Also a lot of students think that they want to major in engineering, then take the difficult first year engineering classes and change their mind.
So if he took some of these classes at the local school, he could decide if he is sticking with it.
Or talk to someone at Pitt Bradford, they give scholarships of $7,500 I believe.
If he did his first two years there with a 3.0 GPA, then maybe he can transfer to Pitt main for the last two years.
http://www.upb.pitt.edu/cta/
http://www.upb.pitt.edu/engineering/
@bester1 thank you. I wasn’t aware of this ranking. I think he will be OK at Ship. The money he saves going there might outweigh the co-op opportunities at Pitt. I believe he can do an Internship at Ship but I don’t think the college is as involved as Pitt is. Unfortunately my son doesn’t want to apply anywhere else.
@surfcity thank you. Elizabethtown tuition is 58K. Even if he got half tuition we are still looking at $29K which is still high and close to Pitt’s cost. I checked Arcadia. He would go there for 3 years and go to Pitt for an additional 2 years to finish his degree. We are located in the Lehigh Valley so he can’t commute. Thank you for your suggestions
Instead of looking at the sticker cost, please use the NPC. Net price calculator. Sticker cost is meaningless when you’re looking at private universities.
Type in “NPC” + “” where is the name of the college (Ship, Elizabethtown, etc). You must do this for each college since each college calculates differently.
Also, what about Pitt Bradford or Pitt Johnstown, both of which would be CHEAPER than Ship and would allow him to transfer to Pitt Main after 2 years?
Finally, your son is likely pulling a “if I don’t apply anywhere else my parents will let me go to Pitt”. Very common. Be VERY CLEAR that he’s going to Ship, NOT Pitt if he doesn’t apply to other colleges (and tell him which ones to start with: Youngstown State, UToledo, Elizabethtown, Temple, Pitt Johnstown, Pitt Bradford, the latter ones to try and transfer to Pitt Main after two years thanks to the savings he got through his first two years). Make that VERY CLEAR that you won’t budge and if he doesn’t want to go to Ship, then now’s the time to get moving and click on ‘submit’ on commonapp.
To give you an idea, the average SAT is 960. The TOP 25% have a 1050 SAT. Logically, only 40% graduate in 4 years. Only 5% or so students have a class rank, scores, and grades near your son’s. And all of that for a cost that’s too much, when you could have much better quality and better value for your money.
I know you said your son wasn’t involved in ec’s, but there are music scholarships, leadership related scholarships, and diversity scholarships that could help bring the cost down for some kids who are interested in Elizabethtown.
I’m just putting that out there for anyone else reading who might be looking for options.
@Collegefrazzled Well, ultimately he will have to live with his decision. I think everyone here has offered the best alternative options.
The only caution is IF he changes his major. DS, different school, started out in computer engineering concentration & switched over to electrical engineering. I know Ship has EE but it isn’t ABET accredited, so do not enroll in that program. They do have software engineering & CS that is also ABET accredited if he wants a related discipline.
I will say, we visited Ship with oldest DS and I really liked the campus. My SIL’s stepdaughter loved Ship. She is from the Philly area, & her older sis attended Drexal (money wasn’t an issue), yet she still chose Ship. It is a shame that our state schools are not supported as they should be, as they are the most economical choice for many families in PA who do not want to take on large debt.
@MYOS1634 how do you know Pitt Bradford and Johnstown are cheaper? I will have to call the college as I didn’t see information about transferring to the main campus. I also need to know if he needs to apply if accepted at the main campus. I think you have him pegged right. Would you let me know where you are referring to concerning those stats?
@Collegefrazzled - the links I gave you earlier give all the information that @MYOS1634 was referring to.
Here:
http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?institutionid=215293,217059,216010
But MYOS, I’m not sure that Toledo and Youngstown are any better in the quality department. Temple & Elizabethtown, yeah. Not sure about the Pitt branches.
Be careful he’s not just casting about for cheap alternatives just to have cheap alternatives – when they’re not actually any better.
@Gatormama thank you. There are so many resources out there! I didn’t know about this website. I really didn’t think Ship was a bad college. I know it doesn’t compare to Pitt but it is accredited for Computer Engineering and small classes are a positive aspect. The Johnstown branch is much smaller. I am wondering if they have the same curriculum as the main campus and also offer co-ops. I have to reaerch it more.
My D will probably end up at a PASSHE school because we also have a really tight budget. We’re better off than you in that we figured it out a bit earlier, but otherwise, we’re in the same boat.
Look, it’s not a “bad” college. It’s a perfectly fine college. College is what you make of it.
I went to a pretty mediocre LAC, then grad school at UF, where the connections I made and the internships I secured were the absolute difference in the way my life turned out. And even UF at the time was not a top-tier school, by any means. They let anyone in. 
Your kid will do just fine at Shipp. The way things are going, most everything seems to require grad school these days, and it does not suck to have minimal debt when assessing how best to proceed. Top-tier grad schools are where you want to spend your money.
@Gatormama - thank you - College is expensive and not everyone can afford colleges like Pitt. Ship is the only PASSHE that offers several engineering majors which I think is important should my son decide to change his computer engineering major. We went to the Open House and were impressed with the campus and the program. The students we spoke to said they liked the small class size. About a month after we visited Ship, we visited Pitt. At that time my son said that was the college he wanted to attend. I was impressed too. Reality struck when we didn’t hear anything from Pitt about scholarships. I really want him to go to Pitt but I refuse to go into major debt to do it. Hopefully everything will work out. I think it will as long as he does his best while attending. Thank you for all your help. You are right college is what you make of it
The first professional degree in engineering and computing is generally a bachelor’s degree, so graduate school is not generally required if one has a bachelor’s degree in an appropriate subject. Also, enrolling in a PhD program (for someone who wants to go into basic research, either industrial or academic) should be funded.
It has ABET accreditation only in the computing-related majors (computer engineering, computer science, software engineering).
http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=907
@Collegefrazzled I will add that my D18 is also going to attend a PASSHE school.
There was not one single school, many mentioned here, that came in cheaper than our state schools when I ran the NPC’s, and I ran dozens of them!
She will be studying Computer Science, and I guarantee you, her school isn’t on the “best schools for CS list”! But, it is a school we can afford, and she was OK with it.
I will add, a few posters here also post on the other thread I referenced; we’ve all done a lot of research!
@laralei and @Gatormama know what they are talking about as PA residents. Many others don’t understand or are not quite sure of the significant price differences, even for above average stat kids. Just to make sure I would recommend applying to some private colleges like Elizabethtown, just to see what they offer. The problem I have with
Privates is that it is very difficult to estimate how much they will increase tuition each year as the merit offer is stagnant for all 4 years. Yes, state schools will go up too but it is a little more transparent, I think.
Post #83 gives info about cost to attend at Pitt Bradford and engineering program.
The tuition fees and r&b is about $23,000 and they give a scholarship if living on campus.
http://www.upb.pitt.edu/PApanther/
He could also consider computer engineering and cyber security and he might have more options then.
I have heard of some top stats students struggle in engineering courses and having a hard time keeping a 3.0 GPA.
You can also run the net price calculator for Messiah College. That shouldn’t be as far from you.
https://www.messiah.edu/engineering-major-pennsylvania
Between York College, Elizabethtown and Messiah he might find a school with the program he wants and a net price that works for you if you get enough merit and need based aid
Try the net price calculator on each website
https://www.ycp.edu/admissions/cost-and-financial-aid/
https://npc.collegeboard.org/student/app/etown
https://www.messiah.edu/info/21387/net_price_calculator
Have you filed the FAFSA? And the PHEAA application? Do you know what your FAFSA EFC is?
@gatormama: Toledo and Youngstown aren’t academically better than Ship, but they’re cheaper, so they’re a better value (and their honors college is better than Ship’s because they’ve been trying to up their profil, especially YSU which has been trying to attract PA residents due to the cost of state and state-related universities). Most importantly, they leave a choice for the Spring.
Temple and Elizabethtown are both better academically and better funded.
(The issue with PASSHE is lack of funding - they’re more affordable than the state-related universities but they’re still awfully expensive for directionals. Due to his stats, in another state, OP’s son would get a full-tuition scholarship at such a directional.)
OP has indicated the family can afford 10K, 15K if stretching, which means probably 12-13K (considering related expenses); federal loans are 5.5K. OP doesn’t qualify for Pell (??) and needs to check into PHEAA. OP’s son can work and make 3K between now and the start of college. Ship is 24K. They’re 4-5K short even with loans. OP wisely doesn’t want to cosign parental loans. So, they need cheaper alternatives.
Pitt Bradford is 24K too but OP’s son qualifies for a 7.5K automatic scholarship. Pitt Johnstown is 24K and has an automatic 5.5K scholarship for OP’s son’s stats. Both would be cheaper than Ship.
If OP qualifies for PHEAA grants, the cost would be affordable without the federal loans for the first two years, which could be “banked” and used for the last 2 years at Pitt Main (for instance).
At Youngstown State, scholarships stack; OP’s son qualifies for an automatic $4,000 scholarship, close to $6,000 from the Honors College, and $4-6,000 as an OOS student, plus YSU matches PHEAA grants. Total costs would be 14K before loans - within this family’s budget, no loans (again, loans could be taken and “banked” for a transfer, or not taken at all) and a part-time job would suffice for miscellaneous. So, while YSu is the same quality as Ship, it’s significantly cheaper and thus a better value.
At UToledo, direct costs for an OOS student are $28,000 and OP’s son qualifies for $14,000 in automatic scholarships as well as Honors College, so the maximum cost would be 14K. Not better than Ship academically but significantly cheaper, hence, better value.
Depending on OP’s EFC, Elizabethtown (which has pledged to increase its financial aid as part of a national initiative for college affordability) would have good financial aid as well as merit. It’s definitely worth checking out because it could end up the same cost or cheaper than Ship for much better quality. Running the NPC would give an idea.
@collegefrazzled: you have to look under “scholarships” and run the NPC on every single college (since each college has its own financial aid system).
Do you know your FAFSA EFC?
Have you run the NPC on Elizabethtown for instance? Temple?
Have you looked into PHEAA grants (state grants for Pennsylvania residents)?
You need to file PHEAA and FAFSA forms to qualify for state and federal financial aid.
Make sure your son applies to the Honors College at Ship. That may net him some scholarships.
Pitt Bradford and Pitt Johnstown are distinct universities from Pitt Main. You son needs to apply to them (he can use the same basic info as for Pitt Main but it needs to be submitted to these two). The concept of branches is that students can either stay there or “transfer”, and the transfer is seamless, unlike the CC-> flagship system which is more complicated.