<p>Dartmoose, I get what you’re saying, but this isn’t a statistically valid sample, when all is said and done Dartmouth will have the same high median SAT’s it always does. They do matter. Don’t forget ED is when the hooked get in and the RD crew is likely to have higher average SATs anyway.</p>
<p>What I’ve learned is that, as you say, there’s a threshold and after that it’s really about building a class. </p>
<p>I hope everyone understands how subjective the whole process is. If all those accepted went away and Dartmouth had to choose another class they easily could and no one would notice. That’s why we’ll see some of the deferred end up at HYPS and other great schools.</p>
<p>Most of all I hope those who expressed anger yesterday can get over it and move forward into the great opportunities that await.</p>
<p>Enjoy the break Dartmoose and all of you, I’m off to find some snow and hear how freshman year is going from DS who I plan to remind how lucky he got!</p>
<p>Sherlock, I’m curious, did you have the grades to go with the 2240? Ad was it a parent who attended? Of all these results yours is the one that surprises me because in 25 years interviewing for Penn, I’ve never seen a high stats legacy not get in. Is the legacy tip on it’s way out?</p>
<p>Hmom, My son was also a legacy (father and grandfather) with 2240 SAT’s and 3.76/4 unweighted GPA. Had taken 6 AP’s through junior year–received scores of 5 on 5 of the exams and 4 on one. Father extremely involved in Dartmouth since graduation, even received alumni award. Son was deferred. Seems like legacy doesn’t mean much anymore.</p>
<p>Daughter (who posts as KCR91) was accepted. SAT I–2290 (710, 770, 800) taken only once; three SAT II–730, 760, 770; 2nd in her small, rural (upstate NY) high school class; unusual ECs showing breadth, commitment and excellence in her (non-sport)activities</p>
<p>Sunny, I agree that you should call admissions and ask “why” I’d be concerned that there may be a problem with your S’s application that you would want to rectify before RD applications are finalized. It seems to me that you would have been justified in expecting an acceptance. If your husband calls, I’d expect the director would have a true conversation with him. I wish you the best!</p>
<p>^ Agreed. It could be something major, like a bad essay. This would allow you to fix it before the RD round.</p>
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<p>I believe that the EDers actually have the higher SAT scores.</p>
<p>I also agree that our small sample is not enough to draw major conclusions. But, a lot of people had criticized Dartmouth for caring too much about SAT scores, and from this alone, that is obviously not true. If they cared so much about that, then the 2350s+ would at least get deferred.</p>
<p>Just by a glance at the data, once a student scored above a 2100, the chances of getting in did not increase as the score got higher. I’ll repeat though, the sample size is too small to be conclusive.</p>
<p>Agreeing with previous posters who say CC is not a representative sample of all applicants. Here’s another sample–taken from our HS college book (lists all colleges, all applicants’ GPAs and SATs–anonymously…). Clearly, they are not representative either. I’m posting it to show another angle.</p>
<p>Northeast public high school, very large and competitive. Here are stats for applicants to Dartmouth from class of 2008:</p>
<p>26 applicants: 7 ED/19 RD
8 accepted: 5 ED/3 RD
one ED was Waitlisted, one Rejected
Accepted stats for ED: GPA (Weighted) 4.4 to 4.8, SATs 2180 to 2380
Accepted stats for RD: GPA 4.6 to 4.8, SATs 2340 to 2380
All acceptees are white (this is only from observation!) and I know of one legacy. Almost all accepted are top athletes, but not all were recruited for their sport. </p>
<p>The point is, their stats were VERY high. (I would add that being an athlete may be important, too.) The other point: there is much more than high stats, and the pool is extremely competitive.</p>
<p>Among the rejected: 4.6 GPA with 2300-plus SATs.</p>
<p>It’s a bit unfair for you to complain other people had an unfair advantage because of something beyond their control (race, income, etc.) and then to say that you should’ve gotten in because you had alumni recommendations. Not everybody knows Dartmouth alumni. It’s not like they could just go out and seek one to have them right stellar recommendations. Complaining about how one person’s hook shouldn’t have been counted but your’s should have seems unfair.</p>
<p>Welcome to Ivy League admissions. Crap shoot is the name of the game. Not even Intel finalists, USXXO finalists, RSI-ers, etc. with steallar statsare guaranteed admission to Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>This is a good time to remind folks to have a good variety of <em>realistic</em> reaches, matches and safeties which one would be happy to attend and can afford. Best of luck to all – if you have the stats to apply to schools like these, you are likely to be successful wherever you attend.</p>
<p>This logic is somewhat flawed. Checking a box for race means nothing about who you are, your essays and recommendations do. Just because I checked Caucasian doesn’t mean that I am the typical yuppie kid. The alumni recommendations I received were not the drivel that gets spewed because my dad knows someone. I know these people, and I EARNED their respect so they offered to write me reviews. I think the ethnic background box should not be on an application- if your ethnic background has affected you in a way that will allow you to contribute to the college, then state that in the essays.</p>
<p>Looking at the results, it would seem that the deferees include a lot of stellar candidates who may not have a hook or anything spikey that makes them a “must have” in the ED round at a school like this. D and all other top schools will expect to get a lot more apps from kids like them in the RD round. You have to figure that after the recruited athletes, and the big hooks (URMs, movie stars, development, etc), they only have so many spots left in the ED acceptance list for BWRKs. The reality is probably that they could fill their whole class with great applicants from the ED round.</p>
<p>I would bet that many of you deferees will get in to D or equivalent schools in RD.</p>
<p>Last year my S was deferred from his #1 school. It was a bitter pill to swallow. What you need to do now is regroup.</p>
<p>My advice is to look over your application, especially your personal statement on the Common App and other essays, and consider making changes to hone your self-presentation. Look over your list, and consider adding a couple of schools where you might stand out more, that give you some kind of an edge, such as geographical diversity. You all have outstanding accomplishments, and you WILL get into good schools.</p>
<p>Charlie… I think Akita makes an excellent point that you need to strongly consider. WHY are you in the position to get to know these people and earn their respect? Not saying it isn’t admirable, but you have been someone who was given an opportunity to meet these people. By looking beyond opportunity or rather, looking at accomplishments IN SPITE of lacking opportunities, it might all level the playing field.</p>
<p>Look… do not let yourself feel bad and if your parents/father is somehow ranting at you, recognize that you have an opportunity here to put this rejection to use and rise above it. Look at this set back as a character building moment. You do not know what life has in store for your success and I guarantee you it will not be due solely to where you went to college. And too… Dartmouth has a graduate school. If you are respected by these D alum now, hopefully you will remain so in the future. I honestly think this has less to do with your feelings than how you are being made to feel.</p>
<p>What I might recommend is a rant in a word document that allows you to spew all over the page… this will be cathartic for you, but will remain personal. You will never know what kind of epiphany you might glean if you unwind all these thoughts like a spinning top. Forget about convincing CC posters and work on letting this go and moving on to the next step. And I strongly believe that a rant held private might be a good way to start.</p>
<p>charlie, there is nothing to be gained by putting other people down. What you need to realize is that the Ivy pool is going to have a lot of people in it who have grades and scores at that are at least as good as yours and often better, good recommendations from people from whom they too earned respect, significant ECs that required much work over many years, and so forth.</p>
<p>I understand that you are hurting, but your energy would be better applied to looking at your own application and list of schools. You can’t change the behavior of other people. You can only change your own.</p>
<p>Charlie, I got the impression in the first post you made in this thread that you believe many of the URM on that accepted list only got in because they are minorities. You then proceed to talk about the things you did, and what makes you qualfied. You talk as though none of those accepted individuals had anything to offer. How do you know that? How do you know that they didn’t earn the respect of alumni? Do you know how much committment and discipline it takes to be a Division 1 caliber athlete and still have the scores to even consider the Ivy League? Do you know the challenges that face many minorities in this country to this very day, challenges that often preclude them from the Ivy League? Why do your experiences matter more than theirs, so much so that you feel it prudent to simply ignore everything they have accomplished and prejudicially declare your disgust at their “affirmative action” acceptances?</p>
<p>I know many alumni and donors whose respect I earned that put in a very good word for me. The essay I wrote was actually about how my ethnic background affected me, and I got great reviews. And yes, I happen to be a black recruited athlete, and for years I put in countless hours to get to a point at which I could even consider playing Ivy League football. I’m sorry for what happened. I understand that your stats certainly would belong at Dartmouth, but I know that I earned my spot as well and I resent your claims to the contrary.</p>