@PurpleTitan LOL! Sure it helps to be tall, but Steph Curry (relatively short for the NBA at 6’3") makes up for it by taking 500 shots per day.
Did you consider early decision anywhere? I wonder if that might have helped? Sounds like a smart guy, I’m sure he has a great future ahead of him.
Post #59 by @lostaccount is a bit harsh, but accurate.
Great post! Let me add one more point. Top engineering colleges are addressing gender balance, even though the applicant group is still 80% male. In Fall 2017 (or could have been Fall 2018) Cornell engineering had 6.2% acceptance rates for males and nearly 18% for females. While I am sure that women being admitted are all highly qualified, it does mean that many highly qualified men are getting rejected.
Nearly 22% of Cornell’s class is in engineering. Shooting for 50% of the class being women means that another 11% of the seats are going to hooked candidates.
@Gregmacd: Being 6’3" would place a guy among the top 3% in height in the US.
No amount of hard work will make up being even average male population height (5’9") in basketball unless you’re already gifted with some insane outlier amount of fast-twitch muscles.
"Great post! Let me add one more point. Top engineering colleges are addressing gender balance, even though the applicant group is still 80% male. In Fall 2017 (or could have been Fall 2018) Cornell engineering had 6.2% acceptance rates for males and nearly 18% for females. While I am sure that women being admitted are all highly qualified, it does mean that many highly qualified men are getting rejected.
Nearly 22% of Cornell’s class is in engineering. Shooting for 50% of the class being women means that another 11% of the seats are going to hooked candidates."
One other thing to keep in mind, a certain number of slots are set aside for international students. International is not a hook (in fact, it’s the opposite of a hook), but slots reserved for international applicants further reduce the number of slots open for an unhooked white/Asian male applicant from Chicago.
While I do think my completely unhooked twins were mad crazy lucky, I do not think they won the lottery. They were lucky to have had opportunities open up to them that helped showcase them in the best light, they were lucky to have placed well in some national competitions, they were lucky to connect with recommendation providers, and they were lucky to have what the schools they applied to where seeking this year. So many things seemed to have aligned properly for them…but I don’t doubt for a second that either one could have been shut out completely from some of the schools on their list. But as mentioned above, they had to take the shot.
I think many people feel as frustrated as you do. There are a lot of good comments in this thread that illustrate the level of competition. I will add some anecdotes from my local area that may help you feel like you are not alone.
As background, our local high school sends approximately 30 students a year to ivy/ivy+ colleges a year. About 20-25 of those represent unhooked applicants. We have seen the valedictorian w/1600 SAT and ECs to match get shut out of HSDCMit. We have had hooked candidates with 1560+ SAT scores, who have played on nationally ranked teams, and have won state level awards for independent research be rejected at those schools too. The cold hard facts are that there are just a lot of truly impressive candidates vying for a small number of spots.
Your son seems more than qualified to excel at any one of the schools that rejected him. Put that behind you and realize that he has fantastic opportunities and he is just beginning his journey.
@thinkon I think placing well in national competition is a hook or at least something that stands out, depending on the competition. Running local science fairs and being president of this or that club simply isn’t.
Yes, @Tiggerdad makes some great points. But, IMHO, the randomness of selection transcends even those points.
During S’s impromptu interview at Williams, the Supervising AO for our region made a point of mentioning how impressed she was that S was committed to his EC endeavors, and was not overextending himself for the benefit of college admissions. Passion was what was recognized. Result? Waitlist.
The AO from USC was extremely welcoming to S. Applied. Result? Denied.
Dartmouth stressed passion and fit. Over and over. Applied ED. Deferred. Then accepted RD. <1% shot at that, we were told. No hooks. No national awards. Passion and fit we were told.
I have written in previous posts; there is no rhyme or reason to the process.
@mcfamilyof4 - During the process, I vented to many that first or second in class should have his/her choice of school. But, there are 10,000 high schools in this country. 10,000 first or seconds in class. 10,000 Presidents of Class. Hundreds of thousands of captains of varsity sports. And, with the advent of the common application resulting in candidates applying to all top 20-30 schools, matters are made exponentially worse. I feel for your plight. I wish your S the best!!!
Great, useful conversation to have.
I’m glad your son has some choices, and he will clearly do well in life. This might help explain what might have happened:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2067880-why-you-didnt-get-in-p1.html
ETA: “Even Michgan” is a high reach if you are out of state.
@lostaccount
“This post will likely generate the sentiment that “shouldn’t kids be allowed to be kids?” Yes! Of course they should. And luckily there are “4,298 degree-granting postsecondary institutions” (wiki) in the USA. Of those, most students will find open doors to about 4200 schools.” “Disappointment is nearly certain for those who reject the 4278 schools in favor of 20 schools less interested in students who were “allowed to be kids”.”
This part is well said. One generation ago kids could still be kids, do well in school, and go to a top 20 school.
Those days are over, for better or worse, but many parents have not gotten the memo, which is why forums like this have a purpose.
I tend to be surprised when people say they are disappointed or shocked with their admissions results at top schools. My son (class of 2020) has a hook (African American) and great grades and test scores in the same range as the OP, and I would not be shocked if he was rejected from any school with a sub 25% admit rate overall (which tends to be much lower for RD rounds). But when I see overall admit rates in the single digits and RD rates that are even lower, and the 20-40 other kids at my son’s school every year with a similar levels of stats, ECs and talent year after year, maybe it just makes me more of a realist. But I agree that I don’t think it is as random as people say it is, because I see similar traits (a hook or ECs done at a level that make them more like a spike for unhooked candidates) every year out of the students who are admitted to top 20 schools.
Honestly his ECs look very vanilla. My own son has a lot of those same activities/accomplishments but isn’t at the top of his class.
@Rockysoil, about this: “One generation ago kids could still be kids, do well in school, and go to a top 20 school.”.
I don’t think so. Not as a general rule. Perhaps that was true for a very small group of people-white wealthy, not a member of a disadvantaged group, etc. Opening up the elite schools more broadly means it is now easier for some and harder for others to attend. On top of that , the geographic distribution students has changed and the common app introduces a lot of noise. But still, seems like more people than ever believe they qualify for the top 20 colleges; and many of them are rejected now as they would have been a generation ago but a generation ago many who apply today probably would not have thought they deserved to be accepted back then.
A generation ago it was very difficult to get accepted to the most selective schools. A 1962 newspaper article conveyed a similar message as those disseminated here, “growing numbers of very able students who haye discovered that excellence can be found and pursued in many American colleges —and that It Is possible to find this excellence without under going the ordeals to which Yale and similar Institutions are increasingly subjecting their applicants”.
A 1950’s article ostensively trying to calm down parents and students noted, "Dean Wilbur Bender, chairman of the admissions and scholastic committee at Harvard, offers this word to high school students.
“Work hard, enjoy life. Stop fussing and worrying about college admission.” He didn’t say they’d be accepted to Harvard. “Back in the day” fewer people viewed their kids as Harvard material.
Guy from my school in the 1980’s got into Stanford and his only EC was President of the chess club.
@ChangeTheGame Agree! There are ~10 kids with those same stats and ECs applying for every 1 seat at those top schools. My own D20 is the same, and no hook. That is why the acceptance rates are less than 10%. GT is a great school! Go there! And fwiw, my S18 loves NCSU.
He was unique among his HS peers (mine was too, as many posters with high stat kids are), but not unique within the applicant pool. That’s a big difference.
This begs the question why many more kids think they are today. Is it because
A. Tests are too easy (and too easily prepped for) that they aren’t discriminating; grades are inflated today in high schools and colleges so too many are deemed “qualified”. Or
B. The admission process is too opaque that it seems like a lottery (who wouldn’t want a shot at this lottery?), even though it’s not. Or
C. College rankings and marketing efforts by colleges made more kids aware of these colleges and their “prestige”. Or
D. Common App made application to these colleges relatively effortless. Or
E. All of the above.
Too many kids like your son apply to those schools. Not enough seats.
You should look at the results from your son’s school in the last several years, and talk to the GC there. How many kids are applying to school similar to his, and what have been the results. Packaging can make a difference. Also experience GC and teachers writing the recs can make a difference. if he applied to an oversubscribed major, or dept, it also becomes challenging.
Did he apply for NROTC? Getting a nomination to the Naval Academy is tough. Most all the kids I know who so applied also pursued ROTC scholarships.
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What AP exams did he take JUNIOR year ,and what were the scores? Have you looked at his high school’s profile?
Michigan is very unpredictable, especially for engineering for OOSers. I’ve seen stellar kids waitlisted and then denied from there who were accepted at the very top colleges. Then, I’ve seen acceptances go to kids whose stats were not as high and for whom Michigan was their highest reach school.
I think 5 acceptances is great. He can only go to one school. He has some great choices.