<p>Whether he could help it is uninteresting, at this point. We don’t have to worry about punishing him, He’s dead.
Blaming is useless.</p>
<p>Our interest in this point is figuring out what were the elements of his life that impelled him in the direction he went in, so that we can forestall a repetition of this tragedy. </p>
<p>Whatever else was true, he was clearly mentally ill. If we could understand his mental illness better, maybe we’d know how to recognize other people before they killed. Maybe we could find out a treatment. </p>
<p>Saying that he was a bad, spoiled, entitled kid, whether it was true or not, doesn’t get us anywhere. It’s not a useful way to look at the problem. All it does is make us feel superior, and that solves nothing.</p>
<p>He was someone who felt that if he couldn’t have something or do something, then no one should be able to have it or do it. Frankly, that’s not very comforting to know, since the world seems to have more than its fair share of those people right now. He felt very comfortable with what he did have, and resented everyone (actually, hated) who had something that he didn’t. The guy apparently felt keenly that the world was mocking him every time he stepped out of his apartment. </p>
<p>I spent some time reading the whole document that he left. He certainly didn’t suffer from ADD. I’m stunned that he could take the time to write that, even over a period of time.</p>
<p>I thought his obsession with lottery tickets showed how delusional he was. Or how self-aware and desperate. An odd combination.</p>
<p>As far as the first stabbings, I think the theory of less noise and no gunshots is accurate. Possibly it occurred during sleep. This guy had thought this through, to the point of deciding against Halloween as a date because there were too many police around and the response would be too swift. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, this may not be the best way to gain a better understanding of mental illness considering trying to preempt such crimes through examining red flags may bring up serious Due Process and Civil Liberties issues. </p>
<p>Also, due to past abuses of commitment laws by relatives and authorities for dubious reasons, the standards for commitment are exceedingly high(Something about having to prove the individual concerned pose a direct threat to the life of others or oneself). </p>
<p>That combined with limited resources provided to mental health and hospitals by the government and high expense of mental health treatment means there’s a strong incentive to avoid commitment and if one is committed, to release the committed as soon as possible. </p>
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<p>That’s not necessarily the case. I know someone who was recently diagnosed with ADHD who is extremely verbose in his writing to the point several Profs in our undergrad classes and in his grad classes have had to ask him to condense his research paper drafts because they were reaching 40-70 pages when the average expected paper length was supposed to be 20-30 pages. </p>
<p>Maybe. This kid had been undergoing mental health treatment for a long time. His family, his therapists, his teachers probably didn’t expect him to become a mass murderer-- who expects that?-- but people who dealt with him wouldn’t have thought he was just another kid. He was always odd, from what everyone is saying. He wasn’t flying under the radar.</p>
<p>Nothing excuses what he did. But this sounds very like a kid all of whose social interactions were awful. He was bullied as a kid, and when he tried to make friends, he went about it so ineptly that he was repeatedly rejected. Later, when he wanted to establish a relationship with a girl, again he didn’t have the faintest idea what he was doing, and again he was rejected repeatedly. He had no friends. It would be nice to figure out a way to solve that-- because people don’t deserve a lifetime of rejection and abuse, and that’s what he was getting. And that’s also what a lot of people like him who are not mass murderers are getting.</p>
<p>But if even those who are not mass murderers have those factors or commonalities, why would we use those factors and commonalities to determine if someone will be a mass murderer or not?</p>
<p>Exactly! A lifetime of rejection and abuse sounds miserable. But, at what point do you have to look inside rather than blaming everyone else. Why didn’t he have friends? Watch a video. This is a kid who pressed charges against a roommate for stealing a candle and tried to push happy people off a roof. Of course, he didn’t have friends. Apparently, his mom tried to solve it with rent-a-friends.Sigh.</p>
<p>To what extent is the rest of humanity supposed to put aside their own sensibilities or make allowances for an adult who is so socially inept or oblivious when it approaches the point of him/her having temper tantrum throwing outbursts in the classroom when another classmate expresses an opinion he/she disagrees with or feels is dumb or in this case, someone who tried to push a happy couple off the roof as actingmt said?</p>
<p>In those two cases, the rejections would be merited and I don’t think it’s right to expect or force others to be accommodating when it comes at the expense of their own self-respect, sense of well-being…or personal safety. </p>
<p>My notion is not that we could detect who was going to be a mass murderer. Rather, I’d like to prevent the murders.</p>
<p>We know that some children who are terribly abused by their parents end up as violent criminals. Most don’t-- but being terribly abused as a child is horrible, even for the children who end up mentally healthy, so we want to prevent children from being terribly abused. We know that as we do that, we will be preventing some children from growing up to become violent criminals, and also we know that we will be preventing a lot of innocent children from suffering.</p>
<p>Similarly, we might conclude that children who are dysfunctional socially due to no fault of their own, because they are autistic, have a terrible time in the social milieu. They are teased, bullied and rejected, and they have no friends even though they want normal social relationships. Some few of those children, we may conclude, will grow up to be mass murders (Lanza and this dude, for example). The vast majority will not. But a whole lot of them will be suffering as children, because it’s awful to be rejected and abused all the time and not be able to do anything about it. </p>
<p>If, and this is a big if, we knew how to help those children to have better social skills, or at least if we found a social milieu where they would have some social success, we’d be preventing a lot of suffering. And we’d also be preventing some very few of them from growing up to become suicidal murderers.</p>
<p>Exactly. Couldn’t just ONE person in his life have gotten through him by saying “Dude, you need to stop ranting about how you can’t get a girlfriend and go out and HAVE A LIFE.” I mean, did he have ANY interests at all? Why not start with the things people tell all single people to help them meet others? Join a club. Play in a rec sports league. Whatever…this kid was in the most fortunate of positions, in that he was being supported while contributing NOTHING. What the heck did he do all day, other than stare at happy people and seethe with resentment?</p>
<p>I’m not convinced this is a bullying case gone to extreme reaction. Just because he was labeled autistic doesn’t mean he was. Just because he wasn’t labeled sociopathic doesn’t mean he wasn’t. It sounds like he wasn’t an awkward kid; he was a mean, self-involved one. that doesn’t excuse others’ actions against him, but I’m not sure that bullying turned him into who he was.</p>
<p>I’m going to keep saying, becaue I don’t think it’s being dealt with enough–that a big chunk of society thinks that men deserve something from women. Many don’t become mass murderers, but the prom rejection case and its ilk are not that uncommon. And beyond murder, how many men rape out of anger and entitlement? That sort of “women owe me” attitude is rampant. Take an awkward sociiopath, add a community that tells him it’s women’s fault, and you may get Elliot Rodgers.</p>
<p>Sally305, do YOU think that a life without any social relationships, and with constant social rejection, would be a life worth living? Would it be for you? Do you want to live that way? Does “Go join the soccer team and feel social rejection there too, and then after that how about getting rejected at the chess club, it doesn’t matter that you don’t have one single friend?” sound appealing to you?</p>
<p>@garland - I thought of this article after I read your post. Your theory is, unfortunately, all too accurate for many women, as revealed in their Twitter responses. Please read to the bottom of the article where it shares the reactions of some very, very thoughtful men. I’d like to find out who these men are, and if they’re married since I still have one unattached young adult daughter!</p>
<p>There’s also another community out there that targets feminism and has spoken out against rapes. I believe in one case this community said that rapes aren’t existent in relationships because sex is expected…thus when a woman is “raped” by their significant other it is her fault for teasing him, being alone with him, etc.</p>
<p>He may have been mean and self-involved, but he was also clearly awkward; people labelled him “odd.” Was he a mean 6-year-old? Was he a mean 10-year-old? I haven’t read that he was, but I certainly haven’t read everything about the case.</p>
<p>Cardinal, no, I don’t think that would be a great life. But do we really know this was the case with Elliot Rodger? Obviously, we have his perception of things as described in his manifesto and videos. But there are lots of weird people out there who find other weird people to be friends with. Or barring that, why couldn’t he volunteer his time with people who would be grateful for his presence, even if he was as odd as he seemed? Couldn’t his parents have set him up with something to do?</p>
<p>Grandma said he was a “disturbed” child and he only lived with her in the UK until he was about 5 or 6. The bullying stuff is coming from the family attorney. Nonetheless, it seems to me if you are rejected by virtually everyone, everywhere it’s time to change something about yourself. And, as Sally notes, many misfits have lives.</p>
<p>What are you supposed to change? If you have autism and are incapable of perceiving normal social signals, what are you supposed to change about yourself? </p>