Shooting rampage at my alma mater, UCSB. 7 dead. Horrifying.

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<p>So his parents were collectively paying tuition at a CC, paying for the rental of a room in a shared apartment, continuing to let him have a car, and giving him an additional $500 per month for all other expenses (presumably food, gas, utilities, books, etc). </p>

<p>This sounds like exactly what many CC parents report providing for their children. And yet it has been talked about here in terms of his being “spoiled” by his supposedly rich parents “financing his lifestyle” and so forth.</p>

<p>Yes. From what we know thus far, I can’t say that the parents “spoiled” him. </p>

<p>The spoiled stuff comes from the privileged kid articles with pictures of him at private concerts, award shows, fancy cars, Armani sunglasses and all of the other Hollywood props that were so self-admittedly important to him. Actually, it seems as though his dad was more of a want-to-be for most of ER’s life. Mistakes were made, obviously. That’s not blaming, btw.</p>

<p>I, for one, check very closely how my college student kids are spending the money I put in the checking account that is joint between me and each kid. If a large sum of money is withdrawn, I call to get an explanation of how it was spent. The three handguns and ammunition he had could have totaled around $1,000. (I assume machetes and hammers are cheap). So yes, we provide for our children but we verify how the money is spent.</p>

<p>^ Yeah, from what I understand, the parents were not wealthy. A lot of the young man’s complaints were because his parents were not wealthy. I hope folks don’t think we are “spoiling” our kids because we pay college tuition, rent, groceries and gave our S our old Infiniti to drive. But again, I think the roots of this whole tragedy is mental illness. And unless you’ve lived with a mentally ill child (minor or adult), you can’t really second-guess the parents. There is no “playbook” for dealing with mental illness. Every situation is different.</p>

<p>"The spoiled stuff comes from the privileged kid articles with pictures of him at private concerts, award shows, fancy cars, Armani sunglasses and all of the other Hollywood props that were so self-admittedly important to him. "</p>

<p>The fact that he went to the one private concert is just so not a big deal. That’s what people with access DO for their children. I’m not in those circles, and my kids are indifferent towards Katy Perry, but yeah, if I had the ability to send them on a fun private plane to a KP concert, you’re darn right I’d do that. How is that materially different from parents saying - hey, let’s take our kids to Disneyworld or whatever? </p>

<p>And the fact that Armani sunglasses etc were so IMPORTANT to the kid does not mean that the genesis of that was “and that’s because his parents told him that those things were the meaning of life.” You have no idea whether these people were down to earth or not. None. </p>

<p>This is like the classic unsophisticated “I went to visit XYZ College and I concluded all the girls were spoiled since they had Kate Spade bags” (or whatever). No, it just means they have Kate Spade bags. It doesn’t mean that therefore they value those things above life itself; it’s just that they needed a handbag and Kate Spade was within their family’s means. Materialism is a POINT OF VIEW, not something that is inherent in possessing a “nice” thing. One can be spoiled and entitled while driving a Toyota and one can be down to earth while driving a BMW. The thing itself doesn’t impart the materialism.</p>

<p>To me the “spoiling,” if people want to call it that, has more to do with the lack of expectations placed on the young man. No matter how wealthy I was, my kid would not enjoy a new (and upgraded) car, fully paid apartment, and generous living expenses without some obligation to use his time to advantage by going to class, completing those classes, and getting decent grades. The question to me is, what did he do all day other than stew in his own anger? Couldn’t he have had a part-time or volunteer job at least??</p>

<p>The parents thought he was going to school. Of course, his record in that area was already pretty poor so I can understand people thinking it probably should have been more closely monitored. But, that’s impossible. He lied.</p>

<p>Yes Flossy. He was a very good actor and liar. And what parent wants to believe that her child is a liar…or worse?</p>

<p><a href=“‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens”>http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I wonder what the parents of the three roommates who were horrifically butchered with a machete are thinking with all the media/political emphasis again being on gun control. I’d be thinking “Don’t my kids count?”</p>

<p>you’re not imaginative enough Tatin. The gun control movement will tell you that the only reason those guys were killed was to facilitate the use of the guns.</p>

<p>Here’s a mental health question, that I raise from his manifesto. Why does a guy with these thoughts and perceptions self-immolate like this instead of becoming the DC sniper and taking his revenge on a “stealth” basis. </p>

<p>I just saw Veronika Weis’s father and brother on CNN. Their goodness and compassion for the Rodger’s family and even the killer, himself, brought tears to my eyes. They are much better people than I would be in their position. </p>

<p>For the same reason that he issued a “manifesto.” Unfortunately the idea of going out in a blaze of “glory” with the highest body count possible seems to have become ingrained in the national psyche at some level. </p>

<p>Then they’ll all be sorry, all those people who ignored me or made fun of me or put me down! Then everyone will know my name!</p>

<p>Tatin, do you think if the killer hadnt had access to guns it would have changed his plans or the result?
If not, why not?</p>

<p>Psychopaths can be pretty sure of themselves and can easily fool others.
Remember Ted Bundy volunteered alongside Ann Rule who I believe was a policewoman at the time.</p>

<p>This is also a good reminder that not only our daughters should learn self defense techniques, but our sons as well.</p>

<p>Yes, EllieMom, I just saw that too. They are unbelievably strong and compassionate in the midst of such a tragedy for their family.</p>

<p>It’s amazing to see how some people cling to their guns. Like it’s a god-given right. I would be just so embarrassed to be part of gun culture, or to think that there’s a use for a gun in my life other than potentially shooting at a range for hobby purposes (a la archery) - or, of course, if I were employed as a security guard or police officer.</p>

<p>I don’t know why I would want to be less sophisticated than Western Europe and Australia, who seem to have very few problems with this kind of thing. </p>

<p>I can’t get inside the mind of a killer. But I feel for the parents of those killed with the machete as much as the parents of those gunned down. Maybe even more so since the machete butchered young men may have suffered more. They are left out of all the debate over what is to be done to prevent similar atrocities in the future. It’s as if the loss of their loved ones doesn’t matter as much as the loss of those killed by the guns. It’s as if they are invisible. </p>

<p>“No matter how wealthy I was, my kid would not enjoy a new (and upgraded) car, fully paid apartment, and generous living expenses without some obligation to use his time to advantage by going to class, completing those classes, and getting decent grades. The question to me is, what did he do all day other than stew in his own anger? Couldn’t he have had a part-time or volunteer job at least??”</p>

<p>I have a dear friend with a young adult son with mental health issues (mostly personality disorder – if he’d harm anybody, it’s himself, not others). He is employed, but underemployed given his academic talents and abilities, and yes, he needs a lot of help and support from his parents. And I know that stories like this scare the bejesus out of my friend. You can’t keep a young adult at home forever, and you have to let them learn to fly on their own. The parent-blaming on this thread is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Some of you prancing around as though the roads are so simple. Really, shame on some of you.</p>

<p>2010, drowning, ages 5-14: 151 deaths (CDC)
<a href=“http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCID_Unintentional_Deaths_2010-a.pdf”>http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCID_Unintentional_Deaths_2010-a.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2010, unintentional firearm, ages 5-14: between 26 (deaths age 5-14) and 62 (deaths age 1-14)
<a href=“http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCID_Unintentional_Deaths_2010-a.pdf”>http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCID_Unintentional_Deaths_2010-a.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“NCHS - 404 Error - Resource Not Available”>NCHS - 404 Error - Resource Not Available;

<p>**So there are roughly three times as many drowning deaths of kids age 5-15 as accidental firearm deaths. Not 100 times, but three times. **</p>

<p>Notice that the firearm deaths don’t include death by crossfire, as that is homicide rather than accidental. The firearm deaths also don’t include death by firearm suicide. More kids die by killing themselves with guns than by being accidentally killed.</p>

<p>We might want to adjust these statistics. For example, more households have guns than have access to pools.
Nearly 15% of households have access to swimming pools (<a href=“http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/drown-activities.html”>http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/drown-activities.html&lt;/a&gt;) and about 34 percent of households have guns (<a href=“Rate of Gun Ownership Is Down, Survey Shows - The New York Times”>Rate of Gun Ownership Is Down, Survey Shows - The New York Times). But then, only about three quarters of drownings are in residential swimming pools. Bottom line, about 5 times as many kids drown in pools per household with pool access as die accidentally from guns per gun-owning household.</p>

<p>If we considered all children, ages 1-17, we’d see a lot more drownings, because babies, toddlers and preschoolers drown. We’d also see a lot more firearm deaths, because older teenagers are more likely to die from accidental firearms.</p>