<p>Actually, there are a lot of women who want a gun for self-protection. A gun will do a lot more than a restraining order against a violent ex-husband or boyfriend. </p>
<p>PG,</p>
<p>There is evidence (again, this was discussed ad nauseum in another thread), that countries where guns are banned have a ten-fold or more higher rate of rape, assault and personal and property crimes than the US. Although I have no desire to carry a gun on me, I can understand how others may feel the concealed carry law provides an added layer of insurance against becoming a victim to those types of crimes.</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl my understanding of concealed carry is you don’t even know people are carrying them in their purse or whatever. which is why violent crime goes down in those areas, because the bad guys don’t know either. I wish California had a true concealed carry law. I doubt I’d carry a gun, but I’d get the benefit of bad guys not knowing I didn’t.</p>
<p>But now I’m just starting to get contrary to what I consider your unreasonable and insulting position on this, so I’m going to get out of the thread at least for now. It isn’t really a discussion of Santa Barbara any more, anyhow.</p>
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<p>Far less gun crime…practically miniscule compared to the US. </p>
<p>And that’s because there are many more mechanisms of accountability and much more attention paid to holding gun owners accountable for gun safety and responsible usage than we have in many parts of the US. </p>
<p>And if one’s part of the militia, one’s also subject to military discipline and law regarding firearms handling, usage, and safety. </p>
<p>As the head of the Swiss gun lobby said, in Switzerland, it isn’t allowed to carry loaded firearms in public places as is allowed in many parts of the US. </p>
<p>Wow this thread sure sounds like the old gun threads from the now- closed political forum</p>
<p>One might not be able to prevent people all with mental illness from legally purchasing guns but if I were Nancy Lanza I sure as he** wouldn’t have had them around the house or taken that kid shooting. I don’t care if she thought it was bonding or brought him out of his shell. That’s just irresponsible parenting. Maybe she didn’t realize the depth of his violent obsessions because he kept to himself in his locked room and only emailed her at the end, but how is that not a sign that he is seriously deranged shouldn’t have access to weapons? It’s not rocket science. ER’s parents weren’t living in the same home and didn’t actively supply his weapons.</p>
<p>I have a friend who is allowed to carry due to her job. If anyone ever wanted to shoot her or attack her, the chances of her getting to her gun first are about zilch. The ones most likely to get shot by her gun are her kids and their friends. After a n episode that showed this so clearly, she came to the same conclusion. </p>
<p>@cptofthehouse I’m not sure I wouldn’t be more of a danger to myself than others, either, so I likely wouldn’t carry even if I could. I would probably hesitate at the worst moment. But others take the training and MANY save themselves with guns, all over the country. This is not a rare occurrence.</p>
<p>However, I came here to post a video (and story but the video is why I am posting it). A bunch of students had a ‘paddle out’ to honor the victims today, and I think it is terrific: <a href=“UCSB students paddle out for Isla Vista victims (video) - LA Observed”>http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2014/05/ucsb_students_paddle_out.php</a></p>
<p>I asked this question before and no one answered it, so I am going to ask it again. Please answer either “yes” or “no”.</p>
<p>Would you give your 22 yr old (mentally ill) son a costly BMW (including maintenance and upkeep), pay all his expenses including food, shelter (apt) and expensive clothes if he hadn’t gone to school for over 3 years, didn’t work or have any other source of income during this period, so he could wander a college town aimlessly 24/7 or drive to Arizona to buy lottery tickets without taking his medication or going to a therapist on a consistent basis? If you are going to suggest the parents thought he was going to school, I would ask why they didn’t demand to see the transcripts from their son?</p>
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<p>Yeah.
But at least it doesn’t sound like the old hammer and machete threads or run over by Saab forums in the now-closed political forum.</p>
<p>Goldenpooch,</p>
<p>In my opinion, the parents did all of that in an effort to keep their son and his problems out of their everyday lives, combined with wishful thinking that it would help him get a girlfriend. </p>
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<p>No way. I would have demanded the same thing. Trust but verify.</p>
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I would be interested to see a source for that claim. One unfortunate aspect of the gun debate is that opportunists do not let the truth get in the way of a good story. On the gun control side, one academician fabricated evidence about the rate of gun ownership in the 1800s; and on the pro-gun side, another academician wrote about survey results that were lost when his hard drive crashed. </p>
<p>While I cant speak for this specific situation, in some cases, especially when dealing with a person who is angry, mistrusting and aggressive, keeping too tight controls can have a bad outcome. Sometimes loosening the reigns a little can increase compliance (though understand he wasn’t compliant on a consistent basis, and yes there should have been consequences.) But sometimes too tight a control can be met with major resistence. We do not know what agreements were made with ER, the parents and the therapist, or if his stability waxed and wanes. Its just not as simple as verifying everything. Its a delicate cakewalk.</p>
<p>Where did the idea that the parents wanted him to “get a girlfriend” originate (outside of ER’s manifesto)?</p>
<p>I could be mistaken but I thought the car was a hand-me-down when his mother received a new car as a gift from her erstwhile rich boyfriend. (per manifesto) I don’t believe that it was purchased new for him.</p>
<p>Aside from his oft mentioned “Armani sunglasses” it doesn’t appear that he spent much time on appearance. He said that his mom and sister took him shopping and sort of gave him a make over in an attempt to help him socially. The sunglasses are getting way more press than they deserve. For all we know they are “Armani” bought on ebay or a street corner.</p>
<p>Saintfan,</p>
<p>The idea came from me (I wrote "in my opinion), and it is based on personal experience. When a son tells his family he wants a girlfriend and doesn’t have one, they often try to help him, by doing things like getting him a car. Ever hear the term “chick magnet?” That is often used to describe a sexy car (and other things). </p>
<p>Even the nicest car isnt going to do much to counteract a personality or thought disorder.</p>
<p>Upfront, NO. I would not do that. But…I can see that happening over time. Few scenarios open up as presented . They kind of ooze into the status quo. I know many kids in his situation minus the severity of the mental illness (though a number have been seeing mental health specialists and have had problems–we rarely know the full story of these things). Many of my peers had some terribly difficult years. Ironically, the most spoiled ones are the ones who pulled through and finally got it together. </p>
<p>No, a car won’t change a man’s broken personality, but it allows him to at least take a girl on a first date. In most parts of CA , a young man of 22 is going to need a car in order to take women out. Yes, they can walk (if she doesn’t live too far away) or take a bus, but generally men of ERs age and SES always have a car in CA. </p>
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<p>Maybe no one answered it because it was an obvious strawman.</p>
<p>There is no evidence that the parents knew he was wandering aimlessly, or that he had NO friends (you left out the from the first time you asked), or that he had driven to Arizona to buy lottery tickets.</p>
<p>Since we are putting out strawman how about this:</p>
<p>"Would you give your 22 year old son a BMW if you knew he would one day brutally kill three people with a hammer and a machete and shoot at others, killing 3, wounding more?
“Yes or No”?</p>
<p>My answer is NO.</p>