Should attendance count?

<p>My dd is a freshman. She is a music major and has to take certain classes sequentially. She got sick early in the semester with a double ear infection and missed some classes (4). She believed the absences were excused because she talked with one of the professors about them. She made up the missed work and (thought) she ended the semester with a C. Today she found out she failed the class because of excessive absences. So, she can't take sophomore theory and my dh and I are considering make her come home next year because of the F.</p>

<p>But my question for you is, if you've demonstrated a certain level of competency should you be failed because of attendance?</p>

<p>What was on the syllabus? Did she discuss this with the professor who was teaching theory…early in the semester?</p>

<p>Can she retake the course during the summer? Does her school have an appeals process?</p>

<p>For some schools, attendance is graded. I had one law professor who took attendance and if you missed more than 25% of the classes, you failed. Seems like it would be easy, but it was a 9 am class four days a week, so miss once a week and you failed - and some people DID.</p>

<p>But I’d have her go back and remind the teacher she was ill and discussed it with him. Some just forget to write it down and the computer adds up the attendance and spits it out as an F. She needs to TALK to the professor in person.</p>

<p>If she was ill, those absences should be excused, but it is fair to fail a student for UNexcused absences.</p>

<p>The OP said she talked to “one of the professors”. The question…did she talk to the theory professor?</p>

<p>Yes she spoke to one of the theory professors. It is co taught by a married couple. The wife is the one who told my daughter the absences were excused. The husband was the one who posted the grades.</p>

<p>He (and I think she) is out of town. He responded to my daughter’s email that he was unable to access her grades but that he and his wife agreed on the policy and that making an exception wouldn’t be fair.</p>

<p>At this point, she has emailed the wife professor and is waiting for a response. The husband professor asked whether my daughter had emailed his wife and since she was the one that my daughter spoke to, I thought it might be a good idea.</p>

<p>I can understand docking the grade, I guess, but a failing grade when you’ve done passing work seems extreme.</p>

<p>I also understand that this is my daughter’s problem to address, so I’m just interested in other folks’ perspectives.</p>

<p>Thanks so much.</p>

<p>And, this class, because of the sequential aspect can only be taken in the spring semester.</p>

<p>Did her other professors excuse her absences? If so, perhaps she should have a conversation with the department chair and her advisor.</p>

<p>Also, any chance she has an email from the wife professor saying the absences were excused? </p>

<p>I asked about the emails. She is looking through them, but is afraid she deleted them. I TOLD her she should keep all that kind of stuff…lesson learned, I guess…</p>

<p>I also suggested she get in contact with her advisor. Currently she’s wanting to wait till she gets a response from the wife professor. </p>

<p>It’s very hard to sit back and watch and not try to take over. And, I’m her mom, so I want to fix things. And this I can’t fix :(</p>

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<p>It’s possible to just miss too much class because of illness, in which case the student should withdraw from the class. Beyond a certain point, a student is just not healthy enough to be in school if regular class attendance can’t be assumed as the norm.</p>

<p>Re the 4 absences: How often did the class meet? If it was a once-a-week class that met for 4 hours each time, and the student missed a month’s worth of class, then I can definitely see the professor failing a student, especially for a performance class, seminar or studio class. If the class met twice a week, then the student would have missed two whole weeks’ worth of class. </p>

<p>I don’t think she should receive an F if she was told otherwise. That’s my opinion.Does she have any proof that she was told otherwise, or is it <em>he said, she said?</em> Every college is different. I don’t think most colleges would fail a person because they missed classes due to illness, but made up the work and exhibited competence. But maybe this particular college is different. Is there a dean at this school that she can talk to? Surely other kids get sick and miss classes. Did they want her to come in with an ear infection? What would her options have been? Are there any options in case of illness? If that is the policy, that you have to go to class or fail, maybe nothing can be done. That sucks though.</p>

<p>

What’s the plan, azcatz? You’re taking her out of college because she failed a class after being ill? Then what? Burger King?</p>

<p>She might want to talk to her Dean, but without any email trail or other classes missed and excused for the same problem, it could be a hard sell. </p>

<p>Did she visit the school’s student medical center for the ear infection? If so those records could help prove that she was truly sick. </p>

<p>Yes you’re right that its her problem to solve but as parents sometimes we have to give them some guidance about how to go about it. I hope it gets resolved but if not then she’s learned a painful but valuable lesson in the need for documenting important agreements and understandings. </p>

<p>She should get a note from her doctor about the double ear infections and should attach a copy of the note to a follow up email to the wife reminding her of what was said early in the year - and if she would have been able to withdraw with no penalty at that time she might mention that but for being told that she would have withdrawn while she still had time. She should also mention what she did to make up the work, in accordance with what she understood to be an agreement on this. </p>

<p>That is my opinion. When you tell someone something like that as a teacher and they rely on it, you are bound, imho. And to do OTHERWISE would be unfair. A doctor’s note and a double infection is not taking the day to go surfing. You don’t WANT people coming to class sick - or you shouldn’t.</p>

<p>The OP didn’t say… the 4 sick days were the only classes missed?
It seems peculiar to me that a student miss 4 classes early in semester, and having discussed that with prof, yet student continues in the class the rest of the semester, with both parties knowing student would get an F.
This argument might weigh on the side of the student believing it was still worth attending the class. </p>

<p>Right. If the student also missed OTHER days in addition to the illness days, that would have a different outcome.</p>

<p>Failing on account of 4 absences seems a little draconian. But I know of several freshman-level courses that have this kind of zero-tolerance, “4-strikes” policy: it’s quite common in English Composition, for instance. These policies are usually in place because of excessive absenteeism in a foundational course in past years. There’s not much you can do about policies like this, and neither you nor your daughter is likely to get much sympathy from faculty if the policy was on the syllabus.</p>

<p>However, if the instructor really did tell your daughter she could continue in the class after the 4th absence, this implied that there was still a possibility of passing the course. That, I think, would be the only possible argument. Your daughter should make this argument on her own. Please do not get involved in it yourself: you do NOT want to be “that helicopter mom” that all the faculty snicker about at the next cocktail party.</p>

<p>My experience as an instructor: </p>

<p>Students believe they have good attendance and are often surprised at how often they miss class. “I only missed a couple of times” might in reality mean 7-8 misses.</p>

<p>Student health will give anyone who walks through the door a note that says student was seen in health. Might’ve been for a hangnail, but I’ll never know as health info is not released. It is possible to get communications that say a student must stay out of class until a certain date, but “seen in student health” is a meaningless designation? As an instructor I very quickly tired of trying to determine whose excuses were legitimate and whose were malarky. I no longer excuse absences and just give all students X days. </p>

<p>Are those the only four classes the student missed or was the situation that she was over the allowed number when those 4 were included. Students often have a very difficult time understanding allowed number of misses. Often what they hear is “I can get X number of skips” and not realize they’re supposed to use those days for illness, not in addition to any days off for illness.</p>

<p>Should a student be failed for excessive absences? If the policy is in the syllabus, yes. Showing up is important to some of us. </p>

<p>My experience as an instructor:</p>

<p>At various times in the past I have taken attendance and counted attendance as part of the grade without a specific rule as to how many classes a student could miss. My current policy is: I’m not your mom.</p>

<p>Students are paying to go to college. There is no law saying they have to be there. If they don’t want to go to class, then don’t go to class. Maybe you won’t pass as a result, but that’s really your problem and not mine.</p>

<p>

If the syllabus explains that attendance is mandatory, and failing for attendance is allowed under the rules of the college, then I don’t see a problem with such a policy. Obviously if the professor had told her the absences were excused, and she was still penalized, then there is a problem. It sounds like it can probably be resolved by contacting the professors and explaining the situation.</p>

<p>That said, I expect this is quite uncommon. I’ve taken classes at 6 colleges, in a variety of fields. I’m not aware of ever taking a class that penalized for attendance or even took attendance at each lecture, aside from penalizing for not attending exams or other special graded events. Unlike high school, classes seemed to have an optional attendance policy for lectures. The lectures are for your benefit, in assistance with learning the material. Nobody is forcing you to show up for this help in learning the material, and nobody is going to stop you from failing due to not learning the material. In some cases, there were other alternatives to attending lectures. For example, my engineering classes at Stanford were both broadcast on television and recorded. If you missed a class (or wanted to review it for other reasons), you could get the recording instead of attending in person. If it was raining heavily, I’d often watch the class on television from my dorm, rather than bike through the rain. This system also permitted professionals to take the classes remotely, while living in other locations. Some of my classes had students from as far away as HP Barcelona (Spain), who’d ask questions in real time during lectures. I did half of a MS degree while living on campus, and the other half while living in the San Diego area and working full time, by using this broadcasted lectures system. I even did a class group project, which included an oral presentation, while living hundreds of miles away from the other members of my group.</p>