Should colleges consider race?

I’m east asian and its annoying me how difficult it is for my race to get into college because we are an education majority.

I am honestly considering starting a “students against affirmative action” club.

When I apply for university, can I just leave ethnicity blank? Should I just put native american to throw off the numbers? my Asian race will still show up on my transcript and stuff though… lying is stupid but I’m so desperate right now?

ANY opinions?

PS. I have lots of experience with this. My brother had a perfect SAT, killer GPA, first clarinet in band and marching band. Yet an African american kid with much lower everything got accepted into an ivy league and my brother didn’t.
Cons of my brother: male, Asian, straight, California resident, middle class, straight parents

Idk if I sound whiny but I think this is really unfair. Asians have been discriminated against for so long cause of their skin color and its becoming more outragrous. We are being discriminated against for being smart???

Opinions?

This forum is more for questions you have about applying to college. For general discussions go to one of the Cafes Also you can use the search feature and read one of the many previous threads on this old topic.

You may do this, yes.

Do. Not. Do. This.

And I suppose you think African Americans are not smart? Admissions to selective colleges is HOLISTIC. If you were really as smart as you say I’m sure you would know this. Being a “stereotypical Asian” who has a 4.0, 2200 sat, and plays violin is not going to get you many places because these colleges get 1000+ of those type of applicants. If you want to make yourself standout, try something else. Affirmative action is meant to even the playing field, and give African Americans (as well as Latinos) the chance to succeed. They are the most disadvantaged in this country. Even with affirmative action they only make up 5-12% of these selective colleges, with a much larger percentage going to Asians and Caucasians. I suggest you find something else to whine about.

If you have to be, be the best stereotypical asian there is, colleges also need some stereotypes :stuck_out_tongue: Also if you can, have plastic surgery to look like a minority B-)

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. About 85% of US colleges don’t consider race whatsoever. They purely admit based on transcript and tests. I’m sure your brother would have been a shoo-in at probably 98% of those schools. But instead he (and you, it seems) wish to contend for spots at schools that admit holistically, that can use their own formulae for assembling a great freshman class – in order to preserve their own identity. These “identities” ironically, are part of what make them so coveted (and the fact that some of them have monstrous endowments and fantastic resources). The simplest way to not be treated based upon any race consideration would be to eschew applying to those colleges – but that’s the rub, isn’t it? You’d ask them to re-align their admissions policies to mirror the other 85%. But then how do they remain in the single digit USNWR ratings that kids/families bow down to so often?

But you’re mistaken on another point. That black kid didn’t take your brother’s spot. He took the spot of a lesser qualified black kid. Yep – i’m asserting that even though supposedly illegal, many schools still practice soft quotas. Who took your brother’s spot? A more desirable white or asian student. It’s called category admissions.

For example, let’s say your brother’s target school is in need of 5 women field hockey players. They get 20 applicants. They rank them and number 5 gets the last spot while 6-20 are rejected. Players 1-5 have an avg SAT of 2000 – ranging from 1600-2100. But an effective 25% admit rate.

Your brother, without any particular sub categorization, is in the “general” pool. There is 1500 spots. and there are 15000 people who are in this pool. 10% admit rate. The SAT avg of those eventually chosen happens to be 2100. The SAT avg of those rejected 13,500 is also 2100.

The athlete who scored 1600 clearly has scored less than even those 13,500. Can someone in that 13,500 cry that the athlete “took” their spot? Nope. It was never open to them to begin with.

And why do you focus on race as the sole source of your injustice tirade? If you want to talk about “unfairness”, why don’t you defend the internationals?

Carrying along my hypothetical Ivy admit class, let’s say there are 150 spots allocated for international applicants. They get 10,000 applicants due to this schools amazing financial aid = an effective admit rate of 1.5%. The avg SAT of the admitted 150 is 2370. The avg SAT of the rejected 9,850 is 2200. If only one of these students had a green card or US citizenship, we can surmise that their admit chances in the “general” pool would have at least been 10% if not greater (all things being equal). Where’s the outcry? No one upset that the Chinese princelings or kids of Russian oligarchs, or South Korean top prep schools, or 2400 SAT achievers from Pakistan don’t get a fair shake?

They’re capped at much harsher rates than American applicants. No injustice there? Or conversely, should the colleges even decrease their admits to open up more spots for the “general” pool?

Not so simplistic as your surface level analysis of “black kid with lesser stats got in, my brother didn’t get in”… and it’s been the discussed ad nauseum on this forum since it began more than a decade ago

Please know that the college wanted something that the black student had to offer and was also equally sure that your brother, while viable, would do fine elsewhere but he was similar to many other applicants. Now please don’t carry this to the next stage where every African American classmate or eventual co-worker or associate you meet will be judged through the commonly held lens of “he/she got here only because of race” or “Wow, this is surprising – he’s really smart. I didn’t expect that” which so often happens.

@ZBlue17 I never said that. I think race shouldnt be a factor in college admission.
Financial condition could be because it is unfair that a middle class student who can be sent to an SAT prep class would score higher than a family with low income. But college acceptance based on race is discriminating and stereotypical. Not all Asians are unathletic nerds and not all African Americans are good at sports.
Yet you don’t see Asians getting first dibs priority when the NFL is choosing their new football players?

No they aren’t the most disadvantaged in this country. Low income families are disadvantaged, but not Latinos and african americans.

I work hard to be where I am and I shouldn’t be at a disadvantage for something I can’t control. Trust me if I could turn back the clocks and make myself native american, SURE

@T26E4
um again, I’m not racist towards African Americans. I’m saying if youre going to be discriminated against for something you have no control over, then the system is messed up. You can argue all you want about how my brother wasn’t qualified but that doesn’t excuse the fact that he had:
2400 SAT
4.5 GPA top 2% of school
National merit finalist
First chair clarinet
Many outside honor bands
President of music club
Debate club
Marching band section leader
Tons of volunteer work
Internship in junior year
APs:
Apush 4
Ap comp sci 5
Ap bio 5
Ap physics B&C 5
Ap calc AB&BC 5
Ap chem 5
Ap gov 3
Ap eco 5
Ap lit 5
Ap Lang 5
Ap Chinese 5
Ap Spanish 4

Btw he self studied for many of them because his schedule wouldn’t let him fit so many Aps
Yeah he screwed up on Ap gov but that was senior year.

Not to mention that he got 780-800 on all his SAT subject tests.

Ok so u proved my point. Its called category admission. I’m sure there was another Asian kid who was some national violin prodigy who met Obama and took a picture. Why can’t all races be compared together? In the same pool?
I’m not upset that the African american kid got in, good for him.
I’m upset that the African american kid had a 2200 SAT, 3.8 GPA, no instrument, and some varsity sport.
I feel race administration can be replaced with financial position because that’s more understandable. But not race becausr that’s discriminating. Its unfair to have higher expectations tor Asians.
I respect your opinion and I hope u can see things from my perspective.

I agree with the OP but he’s wording a lot of what he’s saying distastefully. I think affirmative action should be alive and well, but not for race based reasons, to assume someone is DISADVANTAGED because of their skin color is racist in itself in my eyes. I believe affirmative action should be needs-based. To paraphrase Dr. Ben Carson (Yale, Johns-Hopkins, and UMich graduate and affirmative action beneficiary) why should an affluent black student with a supportive family life gain any advantage over a white student whose dad is in prison and mom can barely afford to keep a roof over the family’s head when you haven’t even began to consider the two students level of achievement?

cause the PC media would rip apart elite schools which do away with AA.

Despite what some people are saying, I’m pretty sure that top colleges DO take into account financial situation when holistically viewing someone’s application, and not just race. So a white person who was nearly homeless with an imprisoned father would in fact gain an advantage if she/he managed to excel despite their situation.

They do take that into account, I’m not saying they don’t, I’m saying that situational factors should be the only ones pertinent to admission, I don’t feel that race should be thrown into the mix. I simply offered that as an example for what we should continue doing in place of race-based affirmative action.

Not this thread again. And nothing about your brother stands out. He’s just another stereotypical Ivy League applicant. I don’t know why you feel he is entitled to get into a college with such a low acceptance rate. You listed all his stats and then expected us to be impressed…not really. Just look at results threads for the Ivy Leagues. There are a million kids like him. (I am obviously exaggerating, but still.)

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