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but many posters have said things along the lines of, well, it's often better to be poor, or, both (poor and middle class, even upper middle class) are equally bad.
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<p>It's a fact that there are situations where an admitee would be better off, in terms of paying for schoo, coming from a poor family. </p>
<p>For example, when I went to professional school, the school insisted on taking parental assets into account in awarding grants, whether or not the parents actually helped. My parents had enough assets that I didn't qualify for financial aid. So I paid for professional school 85% through loans; 10% through work; and 5% help from my parents. The net result was that I graduated with about 60k in debt, which I am still paying off 10 years later.</p>
<p>If I had been from a family with little or no income or assets, perhaps I would have gotten grants covering 50% of the costs. If I'd done the same work and borrowed the rest, I would have graduated with perhaps half the debt and the same job opportunities.</p>
<p>Now, you will probably point out that by coming from from an upper middle class family, I receive advantages that are worth a lot more than an extra 30k in debt. And that's probably true.</p>
<p>But is financial aid not unfair to the middle class only in the marxist-redistributive sense that it compensates not just in ability to pay for school but for a person's general circumstances in life? Because that's quite a mission for schools to embark on.</p>
<p>It's one thing to avoid eating steak because you can't afford it and only rich people eat steak. But if you notice that a lot of the steak is being purchased by poor people with food stamps, that might be a little frustrating even if you would never trade places with those poor people.</p>
<p>College is expensive. It's just as expensive for the more wealthy as it is for the poor. As I said earlier...no one is happy with their EFC unless that EFC is $0 and they are lucky enough to be accepted to a school that meets full need. Simply put, if a family income is $60,000 per year and their EFC is $15,000 (a realistic estimate BTW), that would stretch that family to the nines. If a family has an income of $120,000 and their EFC is $40,000 (also realistic) the reality is that would also stretch the family to the nines. The difference from my point of view is what the second family has going IN to the whole process. They are more likely to have stable parent income, stable benefits (like health insurance), own vs. rent, and have the opportunities to perhaps give their kids more learning opportunities in the first place. Also, while we (I'm that second family) will be plenty strapped, especially while we have two kids in college for a couple of years, the reality is that when they graduate, our incomes will be the same (or more) and we WILL be able to pay off the home equity loans and help with the college loans. That is a big difference from a family who has less income and might not be able to help out in the end. Believe me...I wish that college educations were less expensive. I wish my kids schools didn't cost what they cost. I wish they had both gotten more merit aid than they received. I wish I would win the Lotto or inherit a million dollars. All would help. But I also understand that the finaid application process is what it is. There are PLENTY of colleges where students CAN receive significant merit aid scholarships based on their stats (there are threads here that talk about that), and students CAN find schools where the cost can be less than attending their own flagship state university. It takes research and planning and a willingness to believe that your education is what YOU make of it, not the brand name of the school. I think THAT implication was what disturbed me most about this thread...the misguided notion that only certain schools which cost $40k or more were worthy. That is fiction....just plain fiction. I'm not saying those name recognition schools aren't terrific, I'm just saying there are plenty of very affordable options, and the REAL reality is that if your application is competitive for the very few schools that meet full need, you would be MOST competitive for a mighty big merit award at what might be viewed as a "lesser" school. Personally, I do NOT view that as a lesser school. I guess that is all a matter of opinion. This is mine.</p>
<p>Would any of you choose to quit your jobs and give away your assets in exchange for really good financial aid? This is America, you're free to be as poor as you like. No cable, no phone, no gym memberships or cars. If you're lucky you'll get government sponsored housing overrun with gangs and drugs, but I hear the filet mignon never stops.</p>
<p>lskinner -"at least some poor people end up better off than if they were middle class, at least as far as college tuition goes"</p>
<p>"some pay less for tuition" is not the same as ending up better off.
Poor is always worse off than middle class or rich.
If a family brings in less than 40k a year their rent, food, car insurance, gas and electric, heat and clothing doen't get lowered.
Writers on CC seem to forget that the majority of poor kids, white and black, are not going to get into a school that meets need. They're going to get into a low tier state school, often after going to community college. They are the ones who actually have to swallow "if you can't afford it, you can't afford it" as they have their whole life. Think about the kids in NJ schools, where there are nice, well meaning kids like the OP who think they're semi broke and are getting ripped off-in the same classrooms with the kids whose family makes 40k. </p>
<p>Check out the Fordham board - there is a girl there with an EFC of around 8k but the financial package came back with 23k to be paid by parents. That's the reality of a low EFC. Some CC folks think that all the poorer folks are getting need met, and they are not.</p>
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"some pay less for tuition" is not the same as ending up better off.
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<p>That's true, and I have never claimed otherwise.</p>
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Poor is always worse off than middle class or rich.
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<p>It depends how you define "worse off." There's no question that some kids from poor families end up graduating with far less debt than similarly situated kids from wealthier families. See my illustration a couple posts above. Do you accept my figures?</p>
<p>Would someone from a family making $150,000 per year and complaining like to trade circumstances with me, from a family making $20,000 and receiving full FA to go to a selective school? I would be happy to change circumstances, and it certainly seems that many of you would like to as well.</p>
<p>Edit: We live in the Northeast, too, in Massachusetts. So don't pull the "you don't know how expensive it is to live up here" on me. I'm all too familiar with it.</p>
<p>this has been posted- many times but
EFC
is not only meant to be paid from income
it is expected to be paid from income & savings- student summer jobs and parental assets and loans.
Students can earn $3,000 or more summers- thats a big chunk right there to go toward tuition.
Instate public schools, including community colleges are a good affordable choice- yes some state schools are more expensive than others- however states also often offer merit awards to assist.
Taking time off to earn money or to build experience to better position yourself for college is also a practice that some don't consider.
My daughter for example, took a year off to volunteer after high school with CityYear. She not only earned an education stipend to be paid toward loans or tuition, but her volunteer work contributed to her being accepted to a school that formerly was a reach ( and with a nice aid package as well)</p>
<p>I know kids who have spent two years in community colleges to save money- but their 4 year diploma reads University of Chicago or Oberlin.
If those schools agree, that community colleges can provide good preparation for upper division classes- why don't more families, who fret about money consider them?</p>
<p>To the OP: the EFC is what it is, and life isn't fair. This is where "life" begins. It will be how you cope, what decisions you make about where you go and how you will pay for it that will now matter. It's a little like an illness, or a death. You will be in denial. You will be angry. YOu will be numb. You will be depressed. You will hopefully come to accept it. And you will try to move on and make the best of it. Amen.</p>
<p>Good post sunny. I'd also add it's a good time to just get realistic about a lot of things. On another post you talk about TAing for tuition at law school. Won't happen. Maybe for a Ph.D. program, but not professional school. So if you want law, expect to save money or take loans.</p>
<p>Think about what you expect to have in life when choosing a major so you are not dissapointed by salaries later.</p>
<p>And related to Suze's post above....check the finaid websites for law schools. MANY require parent financial information even though the student is considered an independent student. It's a post bachelor's program...the schools can require any info they want and many law schools also ask for parent income and assets when determining need based aid for law school.</p>
<p>suze, i had thought about getting a ma before law school through my state school's 5 yr program. and i'm not really all that interested in law.
i'm not an idiot, i know something about the career tracks i'm looking into.</p>
<p>Passion--you should be proud where ever you go to school. Rutgers is a great school just like SUNY Binghamton is. Forget about the IVY's or other elite schools. Your experience is what you make it. The money saved from trying to keep up with the Jones" is not worth it. You still make out better off than most people. You can study abroad and take advantage of every opportunity Rutgers has to offer more so than most people making much less. </p>
<p>"It's two different worlds; I could spend all night trying to explain, but I feel that many people here are mired in that all-too-common "my situation is worse" mentality, and everything i say will be met by more outraged argument."</p>
<p>I disagree with this. I think many in passions family income bracket just thought that they were in the ballpark of some of these 40K colleges at getting need based aid, due to the high cost of the tuition. It is a bit misleading when colleges put out what kind of debt that students graduate with. They do not tell what kind of debt that parents incur.</p>
<p>I don't think your an idiot passion, but I do think you're behind the 8 ball on understanding financial aid. You kept repeating that people were not reading what you wrote, but indeed we did and our comments reflect that. Your misunderstanding of haw aid works was naive, and you face nothing many, many others don't as well. </p>
<p>Hopefully you now understand that your opportunity to go to Rutgers honors college, while not your top choice, is one many would envy and hardly the unfair situation you initally presented it as. </p>
<p>And hopefully you'll plan in advance for grad school so there are no last minute surprises. Good luck!</p>
<p>"It's one thing to avoid eating steak because you can't afford it and only rich people eat steak. But if you notice that a lot of the steak is being purchased by poor people with food stamps, that might be a little frustrating even if you would never trade places with those poor people."</p>
<p>Okay, now this is the best analogy I have seen here. If anyone has ever been to the grocery store and have been behind someone on food stamps and looks at the food purchased it is unbelievable! I got stuck behind someone and they purchased all name brands etc. I on the other hand had store brand products. Not only that, this person had a cell phone, lots of jewelry etc. Someone who I know works in city housing goes into these apts and sees the plasma screen tv's, big stereo equipment etc. Seems to me there is no incentive to work when one can garner these things on welfare and also get free health care and not be turned away at any hospital for inability to pay.</p>
<p>Oh I forgot, the lady had a Louie Vitton bag as well.</p>