<p>janesmom, thanks for your concern. my family has said they will do the best they can to get me where i want to go, and i guess i'll just be taking out a lot of loans. imo, education is a very important thing- i love to read and learn, and it's worth a lot of money to me to be in the place that's best for me personally. environment has a lot to do with learning and personal development. i attended governor's school this summer and the experience of being in a close knit community with easy access to professors and amazing classmates is something i'll treasure for my whole life. it was a 4 wk long dream. i really hope that for college, i'll get to a place where i get the same feeling.
i'm not knocking rutgers honors college, and really i've been trying to keep an open mind, actively seeking out (and finding) people with my academic interests and their experiences there. i also remain in close contact with my profs from gov school, from whom i've gotten invaluable advice in selecting a college that will be good for me, them knowing me very well, and especially for my major.
they have told me rutgers honors is better than boston college, for example. also, there are some schools i applied to that just aren't worth going into a lot of debt over. depending on where i get in, rutgers may be the best choice.
i'm really hoping to get some merit aid and scholarships and at the schools i loved but considered safeties, use the fact i am more competitive than most to my advantage. i'm really going to lobby for myself with the financial aid office and save money when i get a job to try to cover all my exxpenses when im in college so my parents can help as much as possible with tuition.</p>
<p>I agree with janesmom1's perspectives regarding Rutgers, foodstamps, and families in passionflower's income bracket believing that they can get some meaningful financial aid grants at private colleges. When first beginning the college process I had read not to close the door on any apps. b/c of sticker price. I read that one often finds a private college with a high sticker price less expensive than an instate public university. Nowhere did I read that if the family makes 6 figures +, forget that opportunity.</p>
<p>I think janesmom was talking about my family.</p>
<p>And no, you weren't, but you certainly seemed to be disparaging more people than the one woman in the grocery store.</p>
<p>unregistered, I don't think that janesmom was speaking about your family. I think that she has observed people who on the surface appear to be abusing a system. I have seen this, and on more than a couple of occasions too. There are always people who play the system. As a taxpayer, one has a right to be upset.</p>
<p>"I'm sorry but was I talking about your family?"</p>
<p>That's what I meant. She was speaking about not speaking about my family. That was very unclear, sorry.</p>
<p>And I agree, that one has a right to be upset concerning the taxpayer/welfare issue. I think that very little of the scholarship money at private institutions is subsidized by taxpayers, however, and generally comes from private donors, and this is their prerogative. Nobody is forced to donate to their alma mater, but thankfully, many alumni are very grateful for their experiences and think that us poor kids deserve a good college education as well.</p>
<p>Concerning post#77</p>
<p>"For one, on the day your son graduates, he still has a home to go home to."</p>
<p>ok, let me get this straight.... all low income families are homeless?? Their children have no homes to come home to?</p>
<p>"Your kid might get a few more months on your insurance."</p>
<p>Health insurance??? Please tell me where parents can insure their children after they are 21 and out of school.</p>
<p>"Your kid probably went to a better high school, probably had more support from home while in college, probably graduated with a better GPA."</p>
<p>A better high school... all low income people live in towns and cities with bad high schools? (and their kids have low GPAs)?</p>
<p>There are people who wake up in the morning and think to themselves," what kind of obstacles are going to stop me from succeeding today" and then there are those people who wake up and say, " how am I going to OVERCOME those obstacles to be able to succeed today.</p>
<p>What kind of person are you?</p>
<p>
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I think that very little of the scholarship money at private institutions is subsidized by taxpayers, however, and generally comes from private donors, and this is their prerogative.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It seems to me that private institutions get a lot of taxpayer subsidies. For one thing, private colleges don't have to help pay for the national defense like everyone else. Private institutions don't have to pay property taxes like everyone else, even though many benefit from the police and fire protection. etc. etc.</p>
<p>Further, it strikes me as a bit of a cop-out to argue that private institutions are free to charge whatever tuition they wish and give financial aid (i.e. discounts) to whomever they wish. This may be true, but if they exercise this prerogative in an unfair manner, then, well, they are being unfair.</p>
<p>It seems to me that wealthy non-profit institutions have a moral obligation to use their resources in a fair way. But it looks to me like a lot of private colleges are acting every bit as rapaciously as Microsoft.</p>
<p>Just my humble opinion.</p>
<p>I said that it is the prerogative of a private donor to give money to their alma mater. And it is. I made no statement about it being the school's prerogative to "charge whatever tuition they wish and give financial aid to whomever they wish" - i made no value judgment whatsoever on a college's expenditures in that post.</p>
<p>How do you propose making aid more "fair."</p>
<p>
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How do you propose making aid more "fair."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Simple. Cut tuition by 75%. Charge everyone the same price. Then the worst case scenario is that you graduate college with 40k or so in debt. Which sucks, but a typical entry level job generates enough income to make the $400 per month payments.</p>
<p>chacha, You said exactly what I was thinking, but did not bother to type out!</p>
<p>lskinner, exactly.</p>
<p>But the OP (read first posts), and many of the middle class, object to the loans. Just read through these boards.</p>
<p>See poster AdOfficer's comments on the Tufts thread on the Admissions board. He talks about all of the middle class parents living in high cost areas who "cry poor" then show up to drop the kids off in Mercedes.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Health insurance??? Please tell me where parents can insure their children after they are 21 and out of school.>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Our health insurance covers our kids for six months after they graduate from college. It also covers them while they are full time students until the age of 25. </p>
<p>Also...since we have good health insurance here, we also don't pay for the school plan. It saves us about $1500 per kid per year. Every penny counts.</p>
<p>Exactly, Thumper. Mine too. The quote goes back to a specific case I talked about, a foster kid (one of many I know) graduating with 40K debt. it's been taken out of context several times. I long since have given up trying to re-establish that.</p>
<p>However, the six months my D was on my insurance after she graduated gave her time to get on work insurance, without a gap. As you also have pointed out. It doesn't sound like a big deal to some people, but it sure is to others.</p>
<p>I don't worry about my kids having their books for their classes, either. You all probably don't either. That's good; I'm glad.</p>
<p>Well our middle class family doesn't show up in a Mercedes, but we do pay over 15,000 per year for health insurance.</p>
<p>"Simple. Cut tuition by 75%. Charge everyone the same price."</p>
<p>Except that a major cost of college is room & board, and low income students won't be able to cover that. Do you propose demanding that apartment owners near campus cut their rents by 75% too?</p>
<p>Are you willing to cut the price of the goods you sell, or the cost of the service you provide, by 75% due to a government mandate?</p>
<p>No, thanks.</p>
<p>Under the current system, which isn't perfect, low and middle income families have part of the cost of college subsidized by the government (which really means the high income earners). That seems reasonable- in a socialist kind of way. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Except that a major cost of college is room & board, and low income students won't be able to cover that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nonsense. When I was in professional school in NYC, I rented a room in somebody's house in Hoboken for $75 per week -- that's $300 per month. When I was in college, I lived in cooperative dormitories and paid about $300 per semester for food -- that's less than $1000 per year. Yes, I had to do cooking and cleaning chores, and schlep in from 'Jersey every day. But I saved a lot of money, and my room and board was reduced to a level that could be easily covered with a part time or summer job.</p>
<p>One year in college I did what is called "stuffing" -- I stayed in the room of some friends and paid them $100 per semester. A lot of kids slept in their trucks and vans; stayed with boyfriends & girlfriends; whatever.</p>
<p>Frankly, a 20-year-old -- certainly a 20 year old man -- should have no problem doing these sorts of things to scrape by. A girl shouldn't have to sleep in a van, but there are still a lot of inexpensive options for her.</p>
<p>Even today in the New York City area a young person can get a very inexpensive share in a safe neighborhood if they are willing to have a bit of a commute to school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are you willing to cut the price of the goods you sell, or the cost of the service you provide, by 75% due to a government mandate?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, but I'm in business to make money. It's reasonable for for-profit persons and entities to set prices well above the reasonable cost (to the provider) of those services. That's how they make a profit, and they are taxed on that profit.</p>
<p>Interestingly, many for-profits are forbidden by law from engaging in "price discrimination" -- charging people different amounts for services based on their ability to pay. College financial aid amounts to a price discrimination scheme.</p>
<p>In any event, I wasn't necessarily proposing a government mandate, although goverment intervention may be approrpriate.</p>
<p>Passion-
You will find the right solution for you and your family.
Do try to keep an open mind about ALL your options.
OUr family faced a similiar sitiuation last year. Son was accepted to 'dream school' at 45K ish per year, with small merit award. Just not possible for our family, even if son took large loans, which we discouraged.
He will fininsh his undergrad at .......Rutgers! (Mason Gross School of the Arts)
Might go on for graduate, we'll see....
Good luck!</p>
<p>musicmom, Congratulations to your son! I had similar advice for passion in a PM, and I am convinced that passion is going to keep ALL options open. I gave the same advice to my own son when we began this process.</p>
<p>many for-profits are forbidden by law from engaging in "price discrimination" -- charging people different amounts for services based on their ability to pay</p>
<p>Schools however aren't usually for-profit & often charge different amounts as do medical providers-</p>
<p>For example my D attended a private grade school- that attracted families with some fairly big names with lots of money behind them-(lots is pretty much an understatement ;) )
( she received practically a full ride & when job loss made it all but impossible to cover even the minimum amount that we were paying, a classmates family anonymously made the offer to cover her tuition and expenses- which seemed shocking to me- but was typical of the generosity of many of the families- thankfully though, we didn't have to take them up on it)</p>
<p>While their tuition dollars, did not go toward scholarships, their donations did, and they found apparently found it valuable, for their kids to attend school in an environment that included children of less privileged background, rather than a hothouse environment, of only children whose parents who could afford to spend $15,000 + ( now I think it is closer to $20,000) for a primary day school.</p>
<p>College is the same way. There are some colleges, who give little need based aid, and probably also attract fewer students * with* need. If you are interested in a school that has roughly the same charges for everyone, you may want to look at one of them. </p>
<p>Ive gone to medical providers who use a sliding scale, good thing they do, as some don't accept insurance.( but some medical providers aren't interested in having patients that can't pay at the time, thats their choice and it probably makes for less paperwork)</p>
<p>My daughter also attended a college that only offered need based aid, not all colleges are so restrictive. Many offer merit aid, and if our EFC had been much higher, we would have gone that route- or if we had been unwilling to commit to borrowing so that we could even * pay* the EFC, as many parents have decided.</p>
<p>When we have a fairly low high school graduation rate in many parts of the country, which I will expect become even lower as NCLB is fully implemented,- I don't want tax dollars to fo toward higher ed at the expense of K-12. College may be considered a "need" by many, certainly by those that frequent these boards, but I would also emphasize that having your pick of colleges * and*being able to pay for that college with very minimal loans & out of "extra" income, is something rare as a phoenix.</p>
<p>I do understand the viewpoint of some who are upper middle income. As a parent who is middle income- I see students from families who qualify for low income not only recieve more grants, but eligiblity for special programs while their kids are in K-12, possible housing/medical/food subsidises, scholarships for lessons, camps etc. Some programs in fact have so much money for low income kids, that they allow in students who aren't really low income ( unadvertised).</p>
<p>There is a rather large gap between families who can easily afford these extras, and the families who receive aid for them.
In the middle are families who have to carefully consider each choice, and may even put off getting the car fixed or going to the dentist, so their kid can have needed tutoring.I expect most of us fall into this category.
This doesn't even cover the kids whose parents could afford, but won't cover what they consider as "extra".</p>
<p>For example, my charming brother- is pretty well off, but he wouldn't consider it so, as he views what I see as "wants- & pretty extravagant wants at that" as "needs". ( highspeed computer access, unlimited cellular minutes, cable, 2+ bedrooms more than what they need for their family, etc)</p>
<p>However- while we have dialup, no cable, very small cell phone plan, we also paid our EFC for our D to attend private college. He decided it would be character building for his kids to pay for college themselves- so one attended a community college for two years, and is working two jobs while attending a state school, and the other had to drop her public school and is taking what she can at an instate community college.</p>
<p>They don't qualify for any need based aid, even though their dad has refused to pay. Thats pretty typical of schools, you would have to prove that you didn't have contact or any kind of support, for schools to waive the parental responsibility.
I would agree that really sucks, but if it wasn't that way, many parents would decide that they didn't want to help with school.</p>
<p>If schools all charged what they argue it really costs to educate a student, students like my niece and nephew would be further penalized, I don't think anyone would think that is an adequate solution.</p>