Should I even apply, and if so, to what schools?(I have no idea what I'm doing please help)

Student Lounge International Students
1

Hello!

I’m a high-school student from Poland. I’m 18, currently during my last year of school. About a year ago I decided to try applying to some US universities. It seemed so simple at first - get my TOEFL, SAT and apply, but the sooner I get to the January 1st deadline the more complicated everything gets, that’s why I’m looking for help ;/ The problem is that I have no idea where I stand or what schools should I apply to, so I’m just going to describe myself and hope that someone who actually knows his/her stuff will help me.

So as I said, I’m from Poland, low income, basically there is no way I can go to an American college without getting full financial support, that’s why my first picks were all the need-blind schools (Amherst, MIT, Harvard, Yale, Princeton) and I’d like to study Computer Science.

I’ll start with the scores:

TOEFL: 29/29/24/27
SAT I RW: 710
SAT I Math: 780
SAT I Essay: 6/3/6 (i know, it’s terrible ;<)
SAT II Math level 2: 780
SAT II Physics: 790

Most of these scores are, I believe, worse than what I could do, especially the essay, so my immediate question is: should I retake? Will the colleges look more kindly at the RW and essay scores considering I’m from a non-English speaking country and I want to study a strictly technical field?

Grades:

It gets kind of tough here because the grading system in Poland is way different than in the US:
1: 0-40% on tests, not passed the subject
2: 40-55%
3: 55-70%
4: 70-85%
5: 85-100%
6: you get a 6 when you’d normally get a 5 but you did some extra stuff and the teacher likes you

My last year’s average was 5.1, which is pretty good I guess, I got a 4 in German and a 6 in English and Math.

Also you don’t pick your classes (like the AP and stuff), you pick your profile, which is like a bundle of classes, mine’s got a lot of maths, physics, and IT.

Extracurriculars:

There are none. Seriously, we don’t have like clubs and stuff here. Sometimes an enthusiastic teacher will try something (like my Polish teacher started a Movie Discussion Club, which I was a part of, but it wasn’t anything official, we would just sometimes go and watch a movie and then talk about it, hence the name). But this is also the field where I intend to sparkle. Or at least the field where I’m the least opposite of sparkling :frowning: The point is that I love music and programming. I play the piano and write music, and I code a lot; I know a couple programming languages. During my last summer, I started working on a Blackjack game, which is almost finished. I did the whole thing myself, including the music. It’s not great, I wouldn’t even say it’s good, but it’s something. I read somewhere that top colleges actually like people following a certain passion more than people with tons of unrelated EC’s. Is that true?

Other:

I did great on the end-of-middle-school exam (it’s at the end of 9th grade in Poland.) Like exceptionally good, will it boost my chances?
I work at a restaurant sometimes and I try to keep fit (lifting weights, running etc)

So, should I even bother, maybe there are some other, not need-blind schools in which I’d have a shot? I could certainly do better on the whole of SAT I and on the SAT II Math, so should I retake (I know I don’t have much time)? I also thought about just giving up on Undergraduate and doing an Undergraduate degree in Poland and then doing a Graduate in USA, since I heard it’s much more common and it’s way easier to get admitted.

2

Your scores are fine. What can you afford for a school?

3

Good luck. You have applied to schools which are really hard to get into in the best of circumstances. Here is a list of schools for you to research - Haverford, Swarthmore, Dickinson, Wellesley, Brandeis, Pomona, …

4

Forget need-blind schools; NYU is need-blind but gives terrible aid. You need schools that meet full need, even if need-aware. Look at these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission#U.S._institutions_that_are_need-blind_for_U.S._applicants_and_meet_full_demonstrated_need

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission#U.S._institutions_that_are_not_need-blind_for_U.S._applicants_and_meet_full_demonstrated_need

Many meet full need for the few internationals they accept.

5

Contact the counselors at the closest EducationUSA advising center. There are several in Poland. They will be able to help you create a good application list: https://educationusa.state.gov/find-advising-center?field_region_target_id=&field_country_target_id=220&field_center_level_value=All

Needblind doesn’t matter. Meets full need for all accepted students might not matter either. What you need is a place that will meet YOUR need. Some institutions only give out one big scholarship to international applicants each year. If you happen to be the student who gets it, then you will be fine.

If you don’t particularly care where you study, check the list of automatic scholarships http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/2006094-2017-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-p1.html Some of these were open to international applicants last year.

6

Op researched schools well - those are the very schools s/he should apply to as a low income international needing 100% financial aid: those are both need blind and full need schools.

Your stats are fine.
You may want to take the English literature subject test and a foreign language sat subject (if you studied French or Spanish for instance) or either one to show Academic versatility (excellence in more than science).

My recommendation is to apply ED to Amherst. Deadline is November 1 so you only have three days to write the essays, not sure how feasible that is. If you’re in All Saints’ Day Holiday you may have the full three days. Start NOW actually. You have till Midnight EST which would be early morning on the 2nd. Work on essays, send them.

Wrt the Polish scale, 2=C, 3=B, 4= A-, 5=A/A+ (6 would be equivalent to Academic awards in the US).

Generally speaking, don’t lower yourself. It doesn’t work in the US . For instance, a 5.1 in the science stream is “nationally ranked” level, worthy of Warsaw institute. In the US it’d be a humble brag to say somethibg like this (ie., You pretend to be humble but you’re really trying to show off) even though I’m guessing you’re being “European modest”. You can’t just brag, though - you must seriously evaluate how good you are in comparison to other Polish students. You must not downplay your achievements and you must evaluate them honestly.

7

I wouldn’t say my grades are that great: my school is mediocre, has like ~300 students and I’m not even in top 10 grade-wise. I didn’t apply early decision because I was afraid that I’d get cornered into taking bad aid (like a lot of loans). As for the aid itself, my need is basically full need. It’s kind of complicated, because I’m raised by a single mother and we are on the poorer side, while my dad is actually pretty wealthy for polish standards, yet I don’t think he could scrape up more than like 30 thousand USD and it would still be a huge burden on him (like most of his savings; he has more children, so it’d be pretty bad if he spent all his money on me), I don’t really want to consider it. Although I might not qualify for 100% aid, I need all the aid I can possibly get.

Thank you all for your help <3 In case anyone else stumbles upon this post, If you know about any other schools, not brought up above, that are generous to internationals, please let me know!

Oh, and what do you guys think about that middle-school exam, it’s probably my biggest achievement ever (i did like 2 mistakes total on all of the subjects - math, polish, english basic, english extended, history and science), still it was kind of a long time ago.

8

You’re still above a 5. That’s darn good.

When you say mediocre, do you mean fewer than 50% continue their education past high school graduation or that fewer than 50% attend top Polish/European schools but pretty much everybody attends some sort of college? Or do you mean “I wish it were better” but the school itself is generally considered fine? Or does it have a bad reputation and if so, what for?
Is that 5.1 likely to result in similar results at the end of the year/Matura or does your school have grade inflation, meaning a 5 at your school could somehow result in lower marks for Matura? Do students at your school have few post-matura choices?

If the financial aid office for an ED applicant is insufficient, first explain your situation to the financial aid office. If nothing can be done, then you’re released from your contract and can apply RD anywhere. Amherst meets need without loans for the students it admits. Obviously, odds are low. But it’s probably your best bet.

If you combine your mother’s and father’s income, does it exceed 75k?

On the relevant section, indicate total number of children (step brothers/sisters, half brothers/sisters included) who depend on both/either parents.
You’ll have to include everything on the CSS profile.

You should also apply to UTD AES/CollegiumV and UAlabama. Perhaps UMN Twin cities (best odds of scholarship+ admissions if you apply to the CS BA. It only means you’d have to show proficiency in a language other than English, which you have, so could choose three courses of your choice instead.)

9

Man, you do know a lot! By mediocre I meant average (it might be my wrong understanding of the word). It’s the kind of highschool all the average to more talented kids from town come if they want to go to college (those who don’t, usually go to other schools, the best usually go to more prestigous schools in Poznań - a big city close to my town; my town has ~30k citizens and my school could be considered the best - given that the competition is kind of weak).

It’s tough to tell what my father’s income is, but I’m 100% positive that my parents’ combined income is below 75k. If I had to guess it’d be around 30-40 k. No siblings dependant, I have 2 step brothers and 2 step sisters but they’re adults. Also my dad is kind of old and he’s technically retired - is it relevant?

10

Based on your relatively uncommon country of origin, as well as on the substantive academic factors you have indicated, I think you would stand a real chance at the well-funded Hamilton.

https://www.hamilton.edu/news/story/comp-sci-department-hosts-college-computing-conference

https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Home?dept=computer%20science

11

For several reasons, this could prove to be a counterproductive approach.

12

Could you elaborate?

13
  1. Need-blind schools may constitute a limited, heterogeneous group that will not be evenly desirable for you.
  2. Need-blind schools may present additional *difficulty* with respect to admissions because of their popularity related to this designation.
  3. The pursuit of need blind schools may distract you from pursuing need-aware schools that may be better suited to your background and interests.
  4. Dozens of need-aware schools for which you are suitably matched will offer you a reasonable chance of acceptance, and excellent financial assistance upon this acceptance.
14

Poland, not incidentally, tends to be well known internationally for its educational system. This should serve as another aspect in your favor when applying to U.S. colleges.

15

But still the schools I listed earlier are (maybe except amherst) the best of the best. Isn’t it worth it to at least try applying to them? What should I look for in a need-aware school? There are so many decent need-aware schools (for example those mentioned by the second commenter) that I don’t know which should I pick.

16

1° Did you apply to Amherst ED?
2° After that, you need to diversify your list and include colleges that are “full need” for internationals whether they’re need-aware or need-blind + colleges where your scores can give you sufficient merit.

17

Though not specifically oriented toward international applicants, this list appears to include schools that would support your education financially if they were to accept you: http://blog.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/blog/colleges-that-meet-100-of-student-financial-need/. You can screen further much as a U.S. applicant might. Would you like a general tech orientation (e.,g., MIT, Caltech, Harvey Mudd, maybe Rice), an urban environment (Yale, Harvard, URochester), a pure undergraduate focus (Amherst, Haverford, Hamilton, Pomona, Carleton, Grinnell), etc.? Then consider your academic profile in relation to those for these schools, as well as respective acceptance rates. Which colleges seem realistic? If you truly intend to study in the U.S., I think you should apply to some colleges at which 1) your standardized scoring lands above or near the 75th percentile and 2) the general acceptance rate is ~25% or higher. Then bend this guideline as needed for schools of particular interest.

18

Reed might be another school to consider with the undergraduate-focused colleges mentioned above.

19

@MYOS1634 I didn’t manage to apply ED to Amherst. I just didn’t think it was possible to get everything in check in 3 days and I didn’t want my application to be rushed and probably bad.

@merc81 Thanks, I guess I haven’t thought of it that way, the only criteria I considered is my chance of being admitted. I think I’d like a college that would let me develop my music passion (I think the perfect option for me would be doing something like a minor in music theory, if it’s possible). Apart from that, quality of education is the main thing I’m going for.

Also, what do you think about this list?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinehoward/2016/09/28/50-best-u-s-colleges-for-international-students-2016/#5a3ff90d7566

20

With respect to the Forbes article, some good schools for you definitely have been included. Some of the methodology, however, appears based on preferences. For example, would it be important to you to study with lots of other international students (a factor in the methodology)? If you would like to study in the U.S., then in my opinion you should be comfortable studying with U.S. students, and a factor such as the percentage of internationals should be considered lightly. Additionally, many elite U.S. colleges do not offer business majors, but since Forbes concluded internationals often study business, this was another factor in the methodology. Nonetheless, the article seems to be a great source for further ideas. I’d only recommend you don’t limit yourself by it.

Regarding music / music theory, you should be able to find excellent opportunities for this as a minor, as well as in your collegiate ECs.

For now, based on aspects of what you’ve posted, I’d strongly recommend you research Hamilton, URochester and Grinnell. These schools, though similar in some ways, cover a range in atmospheres and selectivity that could gain you a desirable, affordable admission. Consider lots of other colleges as well (including those in your original post), of course, but this group could offer you a desirable base on which to build.