I don’t know, as I’ve lost touch him, but when he was applying to colleges, he was also accepted to Oberlin. When he informed Oberlin that he was deciding between them and Juilliard, Oberlin said “Go to Juilliard and we’ll hire you in 4 years to teach here.” So maybe he’s teaching at Oberlin. FWIW: I would expect Tufts to say the same thing to you if you were admitted to both Tufts and Juilliard.
That’s incredible! Being a “professor” (I don’t know if that would be his title) with just an undergraduate degree is a sweet deal.
I believe Harvard will take students essentially on the basis of their music alone, but it’s a stratospheric standard. A number of years ago I heard Stephen Jackiw perform with the Boston Symphony Orchestra the summer after he graduated from Harvard. And last summer I went to Marlboro, and a couple of the students there were current Harvard undergrads. That’s an achievement level a few notches higher than “merely” being accepted at Juilliard.
A couple of students I knew years ago were accepted at Harvard with applications in which performance art clearly played a big role. They were both excellent students, but their art was really their standout quality. I think their careers indicate the kind of people Harvard responds to. One was a composer who, in addition to Harvard, was also accepted at several conservatories and at Deep Springs. At Harvard, he did a double concentration in Music and Middle Eastern Studies, writing his senior thesis on Levantine rap music. He is now an Arabic scholar and social activist working in Jordan. The other was a ballet dancer who turned Harvard down to go to the dance conservatory program at Indiana. He spent a year there before being hired by a major national company, where he ultimately spent 10 years as a principal. When his ballet career ended, he completed his undergraduate degree at another Ivy League university, and he is now a PhD candidate in Linguistics.
Wow. That’s most impressive. Well, I doubt I’ll meet any acclaim like that of the great Stephen Jackiw, but hopefully my portfolio works in my favor in the admissions process for universities. I am rather advanced for my age, by no means prodigious to Jackiw’s extent, but competitive I’d hope. In any case, Harvard is just a dream, and only for the NEC dual degree, and with odds of 5-8 people per year into that program, it’s like beyond top-choice or first-choice, or reach school, it’s like mega-reach, so I have plenty of other options of course.
Thanks for your insight though JHS! I’m relieved to see that it can, in some instances, at least FACTOR into the decision at a minimum.
@gibby where did you get your statistics about 0 URMs being accepted with a SAT below 2100?
^^ Based upon the College Confidential data from last year. If you look through the Class of 2019 Decision Threads, you’ll see that URM tests scores are just about the same as non-URM test scores, however not one URM who sell-reported their application results was admitted with below a 2100 SAT or 31 ACT. Maybe Harvard did accept some URM’s with an SAT below a 2100, but none of them are on CC.
Harvard Class of 2019 SCEA Decision Thread http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1714730-official-harvard-university-2019-scea-decisions-only-p1.html
Harvard Class of 2019 RD Decision Thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1752941-harvard-university-class-of-2019-rd-results-p1.html
I’m not sure how representative of overall admits the CC posters are, but roughly 25% of entering students at Harvard have SAT scores below 2100. There are even small numbers below 1800 (2-3% of those entering). Obviously those with lower academics will have some other attribute the school values highly.
The latest available Harvard Common Data Set shows the 25th percentile as 700 reading, 710 math, and 710 writing. For the ACT composite, the 25th percentile is 32.
This report doesn’t break the data out for URMs or any other subset. But if roughly 25% of the class is below 2100, I assume that includes some URMs.
http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2013-14.pdf
^^ I realize that, however, Harvard’s Common Data Set seems to be in conflict with a recent freshman survey: http://features.thecrimson.com/2014/freshman-survey/admissions/
If you look at the scattergram, which cross references GPA and SAT score, you’ll see that some students have SAT scores below 2100. But many of those students with 2100 also have a 4.0 GPA. And, of the student’s who scores fall below 2100, many are thought to be recruited athletes – specifically from the football, basketball, Lacrosse and hockey teams. But for other sports, such as gold, higher scores are needed: http://gocrimson.com/sports/mgolf/faq#Recruiting
I believe the CDS and freshman survey data are pretty consistent on SAT scores - CDS shows a 25th-75th percentile range of 700-800, 710-800, and 710-800 for a median of around 2260.
CDS is official data from Harvard so if there are conflicts with other sources, I would view CDS as a highly reliable source, though limited in the data provided. CDS varies a bit from year to year and the current numbers are from 2013-14.
Of course Harvard isn’t going to provide a lot of transparency into admissions, but I think you’re right that some recruited athletes are among those with lower scores, likely along with members of other institutional priority groups - children of prominent alums/big donors, URMs, etc. - as well as some who excel in a particular area (e.g. the musician examples discussed above).
Recruited athletes are a relatively small group - 11% on the freshman survey - and Harvard has to abide by Ivy League rules on Academic Index scores for recruits, so there’s some flexibility on the academics but there are limits.
^^ Trying to get this thread back on track. The OP posed the question as an international student from Australia. Or I’m assuming as much, as the OP stated they were born in Australia. Not sure if the OP has US citizenship, but assuming the OP is a citizen of Australia, Harvard restricts the number of international students to about 10% to 11% of their incoming class – or about 160 to 190 students per year. And international students do not qualify as URM’s, so I would say the OP’s chances with an SAT of 2090 were minimal. By all means they should apply, but they should not expect much. Do you disagree?
Sure, I agree that why not apply but it’s tough for internationals.
In the case of Australia, of the 31 students from there at Harvard College, over half of them (16) are on one of Harvard’s crew teams.
I have very good reason to believe that a music supplement (in particular, a composition supplement) can make a difference at Yale.
That reason being? @Hunt
The reason is that I am aware of feedback that a composition portfolio mattered.
I have just spoken with a recently admitted student from the UK, as I am also a recent admit, and she gained admission with a score of 30 on her ACT. No she was not a recruited athlete, nor a musical virtuoso. While it may be highly unlikely, there are international students who do get in even with fairly low scores.
Thanks for all of your help guys.
@gibby, I really do appreciate your candor and honesty in this. I know my scores are too low as it stands, but as I said, I do intend to raise them. Not sure what you heard about the June 6 screw up but several people were uncharacteristically affected, and I was one of them. Not trying to make excuses and say I should’ve had a perfect score, maybe I had a rough day, but again, 2280 was my average predicted from practice tests so maybe not. I don’t find college board to be of much value but I’m certainly not going to be the person who single handedly disbands the college board empire. Maybe one day, but not now.
Anyway, Let’s say I get a 2220, just as a lower score, would that leave me in with a much better chance? What would be the lowest score I should feel certain that I’m being taken seriously with?
Also, @Hunt I really appreciate you letting me know that. I actually live in the Yale area and have a lot of connections and experience there (not that anyone get’s in on that basis or that I would want to ethically) and they certainly have a MUCH better music department than Harvard, so I think that has a lot to do with them placing more value into music. I doubt Harvard cares because their music program is essentially just for the on-the-side prodigies who padded their resumes and got discipline from instruments (i.e. children of tiger parents) who want to keep things going, which is no doubt why they align themselves with a world-class music conservatory for the NEC dual degree to compensate - it’s the one thing that Harvard lacks on its own, world-class music. I suppose one of many things but certainly that stands out to me. At least that’s my view.
Usually I’d say, “of course, apply to Harvard!”, since I did just because my mother told me to, and I got in despite thinking that I never would…but if you look down on Harvard (its music department), don’t bother. Stick to Yale.
Looking at all these posts, I’d also say go with Yale. Maybe SCEA to Harvard because Yale rejects a lot of kids SCEA, but I’d say you’d stand a good shot at both but a great shot at Yale.
@HappyAlumnus I’m not looking down on Harvard. It’s amazing, obviously. Again, I want the Harvard academics with the NEC music. I don’t think that’s ridiculous at all.
@codemachine So does Harvard really have that much higher of an acceptance rate for SCEA? I thought Yale accepted a lot of people SCEA. I was gonna do Harvard SCEA because Harvard RD is 3.4% acceptance but then decided Yale SCEA would be better and now I don’t even know anymore.
Harvard a) accepts a little over 5%, not 3%. B) Their SCEA admission is roughly 22% but keep in mind some of that is legacies, recruited athletes, etc. but I believe admissions are still higher than RD. Those odds beat out Yale by a lot if you ask me.