Should I even bother applying?

Parent Cafe
61

@compmom That’s not correct. The 10% rate only applies to incomes between $65,000 and $150,000. I’m not sure exactly but aid phases out somewhere around $200,000. And significant assets affect the equation.

From Harvard’s site:

“Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income, and those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances. Families at all income levels who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances.”

62

@warbrain I looked at their AGI and the results of the NPC and made a spreadsheet detailing all of the external factors that already detract from their finances (my sister’s tuition, my younger brother’s expenses, relatives overseas, houses, etc) and concluded that they likely wouldn’t be able to afford paying full price for my college education over the course of 4 years without it imposing a significant financial burden, especially because they’re very close to retirement.

@happymomof1 There isn’t going to be anything left in my sister’s college fund by the time I enroll because the funds are going to be exhausted before she graduates. I’ll definitely take a look at Bryn Mawr and Mt. Holyoke! I’ve heard really good things about them. Tomorrow I’ll determine an upper affordability limit with my parents so that I can determine a clear route of action. Thank you!

@Wien2NC Thank you! I’ll take a look at all of those.

@ucbalumnus Thank you for the reminder!

63

You are right. I was posting too fast!

64

@Wien2NC 's wise words are something that I think every student, parent, guidance counselor, teacher, and nosy neighbor or butinsky family member should be required to repeat before making a decision or voicing an opinion on college selection:

@zahmat, you seem to be a particularly intelligent, articulate, and thoughtful young person. If you continue on the path you’ve chosen for the past several years, you will likely be successful regardless of whether you wind up at a super-selective “elite” school or merely a very selective “excellent” school. You have the stats, the accomplishments, and the mindset to make you a good candidate for top-20 universities. Those same accomplishments make you an equally good candidate for extremely competitive merit awards at top-50 schools like some that have already been mentioned and automatic merit packages at others. If your plan is to pursue a post-graduate degree and you’re concerned about finances, a lower-cost undergrad degree at an excellent school will give you both the background and the economic freedom to pursue a graduate degree without having to go through this same crisis of conscience four years from now when you’re making decisions about your next steps.

65

In your “chance me” thread, you said

“What are my chances for schools like NYU (1st choice , Vanderbilt, UNC Chapel Hill, Howard, Spelman, Emory, University of Michigan, Georgia Tech, Stanford + Yale?”



All of them besides Stanford and Yale offer big competitive merit scholarships (though GTech offers very few and UMich’s may not be enough as they would only cover in-state costs).



While no guarantee, with your profile, I think you’d have a decent shot at those big merit scholarships. In fact, I would be surprised if you didn’t get any.

66

So what can your parents afford over 4 years?



Here is a list of more big competitive merit scholarships: http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com


67

BTW, both Howard and Spelman (and other HBCU) have exchange and 3-2 programs with a bunch of schools, some of them elite: http://www.blackexcel.org/CD-EP.htm





That is potentially a way to get classes or even a degree that you would otherwise not be able to afford.



NYU also has a program that allows students of other schools to study there:

https://www.nyu.edu/admissions/spring-in-ny.html



You should enquire about credit transfer policies, though.

68

I suggest that you apply to all schools that you dream of attending & hope for merit aid to fill the gap between need based and out of pocket. I also strongly suggest that you look for small private schools that are not necessarily “name brands” - they are often great schools with full time professors teaching and mentoring undergrads. Small class sizes and very engaged student populations. In the Ivies, you are often taught by teaching assistants/grad students as the ivies reserve much of their teaching talent for the graduate level students. Better to go where you have a full ride for undergraduate studies and head to the Ivies for grad school.

69

@zahmata, I agree with @EllieMom that you seem to be “a particularly intelligent, articulate, and thoughtful young person”. You are also obviously very bright and talented, and you seem to have a strong commitment to helping and standing up for others. As noted above, a lot of people are rooting for you.

As I opined on your “chance me” thread, I think the double challenge for you is (1) to present yourself with a coherent narrative that ties together your interests and paints a clear picture of who you are and what you stand for; and (2) to position yourself strategically because of your tricky family financial situation (deceptively moderately high income and assets, but parents close to retirement, full-pay sister already in college, and an autistic younger brother with significant expenses). If you achieve #1 then you will likely get in to a lot of very good colleges, but achieving both of these so that you end up with some highly desirable options that are affordable for you is somewhat tricky.

I’m not sure that I completely agree with @menloparkmom that “What EVER you do, do NOT waste your time applying to ANY college that your parents CAN’T afford to send you to.” If you knew with 100% certainty, then sure; but the problem is, that’s difficult to predict. “Need based” aid can vary considerably from school to school, and the way different schools count assets or factor in other factors seems to differ.

Given your situation, I’d probably divide my list of prospective schools into 3 main groups:

  1. Schools for which you are a near-automatic admit based on stats/scores and for which you will likely automatically qualify for significant merit aid. As already mentioned in this thread, there are a lot of those. I would research those extensively, and make a list. With your GPA and an ACT of 30 or above (which should be relatively easy for you) you would qualify for Presidential Recognition and full scholarship at UAB. Others have mentioned numerous in-state and out of state options for which you should automatically qualify. With multiple acceptances to full-pay options, you would be in a great position.
  2. Schools of interest for which you would be a strong candidate for significant competitive 4-year merit aid. These include schools like Duke (AB Duke Scholar, Robertson Scholar, University Scholar and Regional Howard Scholar, all full pay), Vanderbilt (Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholar, Ingram Scholar and Chancellor's Scholar, all full tuition at least), USC (Stamp Scholar and Trustee Scholar, both full tuition; Chancellor's Scholar, half tuition), UNC (Robertson and Morehead-Cain Scholars, both full pay), Virginia (Jefferson Scholar, full pay), Rice (Trustee and Barbara Jordan Scholarships, $25K+), WUSTL (Stamps Scholarship, full tuition) and others. These are all very strong schools, and these competitive scholarships not only provide funding, they also open doors and provide fast-track access to research, professors, and resources; many top students choose them over "elite" schools, even if need-based aid and merit-based aid end up making little difference. Some of these require separate applications (or at least checking a box), others are automatically considered for all applicants. These are all highly competitive, but you are a very strong applicant with a wide range of talents and achievements and strong social interests, and I would not be at all surprised if you ended up getting one or more of these. I think you'd be a great candidate for the Robertson Scholarship. The Reginal Howard Scholarship at Duke is for exceptional students of African American heritage, and I think you'd be a very strong applicant. You should research these on the school websites, and there are lots of CC threads about most of these as well.
  3. I would consider applying to a small number of "reach" schools which are officially need-based only. Stanford, Yale, Penn and Brown seem like the most obvious candidates on the list in your chance thread. It's not impossible that your situation will be interpreted differently, and one or more could be relatively liberal with interpreting your need. It's also possible that with acceptances in hand you can attempt to leverage your position. But I wouldn't count on this. Financial aid offices generally are entirely independent of adcoms. I would assume that these kind of schools are "high reaches" financially even more so than academically, and take a couple of shots, but not count on them.

I also agree with the suggestion above to get in touch with some financial aid officers at schools of interest and discuss your situation.

Also, I would emphatically NOT apply ED anywhere given your financial situation. Applying EA is fine, even SCEA/REA (same thing, different names) to Stanford or Yale if you are ready, but with the caveat above. But an ED commitment with your complex financial situation would be too precarious, IMO. Merit aid at schools with ED is usually for RD applicants, to attempt to lure them away from other schools.

I do believe that you are a strong enough and unusual enough applicant that there’s a decent chance things will work out well, but you really won’t know for another 6-9 months.

Finally, I strongly agree that college is just one step on the path, and that the goal isn’t to get into an “elite” college but to get a strong education and position yourself for life. With your talents and maturity you will undoubtedly do well wherever you end up. You are who you are, regardless of where finances dictate that you will end up matriculating.

70

Sorry but I feel like you are getting painted too rosy of a picture which could lead to great disappointment. Yes, you are kind, articulate and have a nice bio. But I keep reading a woe is me attitude between the lines, and that does not come off positive. You are starting at a higher point than many students, financially speaking. You have a good resume, so to your original question, of course you should apply. (Was this fishing?) Your parents make good money and can afford quite a bit compared to a lot of students out there. Many parents are approaching retirement, have other expenses, multiple kids in college, etc., and I agree you will likely get no financial aid. Appearing wealthy on paper but not being able to write a check for $240K is virtually the entire middle class in the eyes of FA offices. Parents can take loans or not, that is a choice, or a student can choose a school that gives merit. You have lots of suggestions here for schools, just remember at the top schools competition is fierce, apply broadly as mentioned and you will have options. I am not see the credentials that justify the tippy top awards at top schools. Better to consider that a possibility than to go in thinking you are a shoe-in. Everyone wants to go to a top school, but not everyone can. That’s life.

From your other thread question with your stats, I would not apply to STEM major if merit money is your goal, your scores and courses/tests in those areas are considerably weaker than competitive applicants. ECs are only so much. And I would tighten your ECs, a long laundry list is not what they are looking for. If you list an activity as significant, but the readers can tell it was likely a few hours over a short period of time, that waters down the entire app.Too much quantity rather than quality is always suspect for various reasons.

71

@scotlandcalling: Most of the elites do not admit by major.

72

However, some admit by division, which is typically based on the majors within it (e.g. Columbia, Cornell, Penn).

73

I agree with @scotlandcalling, some people are painting too rosy of a picture. Don’t set yourself up for disappointment- make sure that you have some financially feasible options that you are willing to attend.

Howard and Spelman’s scholarships are competitive- the pool is wide and the pool is deep, don’t underestimate the number of high achieving AA students applying to HBCU (especially legacies).

Duke (AB Duke Scholar, Robertson Scholar, University Scholar and Regional Howard Scholar, all full pay), Vanderbilt (Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholar, Ingram Scholar and Chancellor’s Scholar, all full tuition at least), USC (Stamp Scholar and Trustee Scholar, both full tuition; Chancellor’s Scholar, half tuition), UNC (Robertson and Morehead-Cain Scholars, both full pay), Virginia (Jefferson Scholar, full pay), Rice (Trustee and Barbara Jordan Scholarships, $25K+), WUSTL (Stamps Scholarship, full tuition) - these are few in number and again, the pool is wide and the pool is deep.

Toss and application, because if you don’t, you have a 0 percent chance of getting one of these opportunities. But by no means put all of your eggs in this basket.

With the exception of your younger brother’s unreimbursed medical and school expenses, from a financial aid standpoint, schools are not going to provide you with need based aid so that your parents can subsidize relatives overseas or pay for houses (especially if it is not your primary residence). $300k in income and typical assets is not going to net you much if anything in need based aid (you state that they have unusual assets)

If your parents do not have typical assets, then the net price calculator may not be giving you an accurate assessment.

74

I completely agree with sybbie719, a college counselor, who joined CC in 2004 [ when I did] and has been a voice of reason on CC for years.

The list of highly competitive scholarships that Renaissance dad listed are offered to only a handful of students each year and usually those same students ALSO offered admissions to HYPS- in other words- the are HIGHLY COMPETITIVE and offered to highly accomplished tippy top students with standardized tests scores in the 1550+/ 35-36 range, not to students with ACT scores in the low 30’s.
We see this happening every year.

USC[ Southen Calif] offers ONLY 5 Stamps scholarships/ year- and they receive 40,000 applications.

Thinking you are likely to win one is like expecting to win the lottery!
They DO offer 100 + full tuition scholarships , divvied up by college so it would be wise to throw them an early application.

http://admission.usc.edu/docs/Scholarships.pdf

[ There is NO such thing at as a Chancellor’s Scholarship at USC[ Southern California] so perhaps RD was referring to U of South Carolina ?]
so sure , IF you are lucky to win one of those scholarships, then you can count your blessings.
BUT you need to apply to colleges where your admission, AS WELL AS the funding for your education, are ASSURED, not just hoped for.

75

^ I agree with much of the above. I’m just not sure what the dispute seems to be about, or who exactly is painting “too rosy a picture”; presumably it is me, since I am cited. There was never any suggestion in my post that any of the competitive merit scholarships are “likely”, though I suggested that the OP should be competitive; and I suggested applying to these schools only AFTER applying to a group of schools where the OP’s admission, as well as the funding for her education, would be “assured”, not just “hoped for”.

Obviously, none of the competitive merit scholarships are “assured” in any sense, and counting on them as such would be folly. That doesn’t mean that one shouldn’t be aware of them, especially as many of the schools on the OP’s list do have such scholarships. Some have to be applied for. No one is a shoo-in for these scholarships, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t a possibility. The lottery analogy is only partly correct - the majority of applications do not have any kind of a shot at these scholarships, and the group of applicants who will be competitive for them is considerably smaller than the general pool.

If @menloparkmom, @sybbie719 and @scotlandcalling are emphasizing that these options should not be relied on and that the OP should first have a strategy with focuses on admission to schools with automatic merit aid, I completely agree (as I stated in my post above). If the suggestion is that the OP shouldn’t even consider their existence, or should avoid applying to these schools, then I don’t agree at all.

76

this is the part of your post that I consider “too rosy” –

" I would not be at all surprised if you ended up getting one or more of these. I think you’d be a great candidate for the Robertson Scholarship."

WAY too rosy, imho, given the OPs less than stellar ACT scores.
I could be wrong[ I hope so] .
Yes, she has lots of EC’s, but those are NOT what gets a candidate moved to the front of the line when it comes to highly competitive merit scholarships.
She should apply to some of those scholarships, and then forget that she did .

Winning one SHOULD be a delightful [ and welcome] surprise, rather than something that anyone assumes is more likely to happen, than not.

77

“She should apply to some of those scholarships, and then forget that she did.”

I would agree with this, for any applicant. I think the OP is a good candidate for some of these, but my “I would not be surprised” was not intended to imply a likelihood of receiving a competitive merit scholarship; I did not mean to give that impression. I don’t think any one - no matter how qualified and how strong a candidate - stands more than a long shot at getting such competitive scholarships, and I certainly would not place reliance on getting one.

My advice to the OP would be:

  1. Come up with a list of schools to which admission with substantial merit aid is guaranteed (or near-guaranteed) based on objective criteria. The goal should be to have one or more assured acceptances with adequate funding.
  2. Research some of the competitive merit scholarships and pick some to which to apply, based mainly on which schools are of interest.
  3. Talk to financial aid offices at need-based reach schools to clarify how things like ongoing financial support for her autistic brother will be factored in. Unless the response indicates that need-based aid will clearly not make these schools a viable option, then go ahead and apply to some small number of them.
  4. Forget about #2 and #3 until results come in, and then see whatever settles out.

If my earlier post suggested a rosier picture than that, then I am happy to clarify.

78

Did you show your parents your spreadsheet? What do they think, and do you trust their financial judgement? It seems a bit strange that on one hand you had no idea what their income was until recently, but on the other hand, you know all their expenses on things like house payments, sending money to relatives, etc. I’m not trying to be accusatory, but it’s really easy to assume you can’t afford to be full-pay. Unfortunately on CC if that’s how you present yourself, people will run with that assumption. Families spend more than 20% of their income on college all the time without problems. Of course, many families can’t and yours might be one of them, but I don’t get the sense that you can make that call just yet, especially without discussing it with your parents.

79

As I read through this thread, there seemed to be this steamrolling effect that this student was going to a top school free of charge. I don’t think that was because of any one poster, it was a cumulative effect. I would guess most people didn’t read stats/bio and just went off the previous post with assumptions made. Agree with others, the stats are not there for the Stamps/Morks kinds of awards or other highly elusive top scholarships at the top schools. The ECs come off as a fluffed up, (sorry trying to be helpful). But there would be merit at some schools certainly and even good merit $, just not seeing it at the the likes of Duke, USC, Vanderbilt, Rice and other schools mentioned.

OP, people go into debt for college all the time - parents and students - that is a choice you decide on. College is not a given for anyone. There are thousands upon thousands of students that have worked really hard and can’t afford their dream school, or any four year for that matter. I have my eye on a new Tesla, but have to decide if it is worth the debt. Unfortunately no merit aid for that. But I can choose to borrow or not, and so can you and your parents. Not a crisis, just a decision.

80

Sorry for my late response. Thank you all for being honest.
@menloparkmom I noticed that you referenced my “less than stellar” ACT scores - the reason that I specified that didn’t want to send them in my other thread is because I haven’t taken the ACT since the 8th grade. I just prefer the SAT. I appreciate your advice though, thank you for giving your honest opinion.

@blueskies2day @sybbie719 @renaissancedad @PurpleTitan @scotlandcalling @ucbalumnus @KKroro @EllieMom @warbrain
Thank you all for your advice (and for being very honest)! I appreciate all of your perspectives and will keep them in mind as I continue my search.