Should I even bother with Stanford

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
1

Hey guys,

I have a conflict. Basically, I love Stanford and Duke, and wouldn’t mind attending either school. It’s just that Stanford appeals to me more. So I have to strategize. I would either apply Stanford REA (which is a lottery) or Duke ED (which I actually have a chance). My question to you all is should I even bother applying to Stanford? Because I know my stats are low. Thanks for the feedback!

Major: Biomechanical Engineering / Biomedical Engineering
State: Ohio
School: Very Competitive Public
Ethnicity: Black and Asian
Gender: XY
Class: Rising Senior
GPA: 3.99 W and 3.6 UW (Yikes)
PSAT: 1420/1520, track to be commended
ACT: 31 (yikes)
Subject tests: Math 2 - 780, US History - 720
AP: AP US History (4), English (4), Economics (4,4), Calc BC (3), AB sub (3), Physics (2) (yikes)
Awards: Honor Roll, Scholar Athlete, Academic
Medallion, Salute to Excellence, Varsity Letters, Leadership Certificates, etc.

Freshie

Honors Algebra 2 - A
Honors English 9 - B
Physical Science - A
World History - A
Spanish 2 - A
Electives - A

Sophomore

Honors Pre Calc - A
Honors Bio - A
Honors Chemistry - A
Honors English 11 - B
Spanish 3 - B
AP US History - B
Electives - A

Junior

AP Calc BC - B
AP Physics 1 - B
AP Economics - A
AP English 11 - B
Spanish IV - A
Electives- A

Senior

AP Statistics
AP Psychology
AP Chemistry
AP Spanish
AP English 12

As one can tell, my GPA is on the lower end.

EC:

In school

Basketball - lettered sophomore year, won division 1 districts, really big part of my life, takes up LOTS of time
Track - lettered sophomore year, won division 1 districts, takes up LOTS of time
African American Culture Club - Co founder and Vice President,
Diversity Acceptance Program - Vice president,
Youth For Christ - Vice President,
Selected freshmen mentor
S.P.L.A.S.H - Selective program for leaders within my school
Principal Advisory Board

Out of School

Director at Be The Change Venture - diversity and inclusion movement within Cleveland
Junior Ambassadors - Volunteered 109 hours at Cleveland Clinic main campus in the summer
Research Assistant - Assisted post doc at Case Western Reserve’s biomedical engineering lab (WHY I LIKE BME)
Marketing Director for DifferentLikeYou.com - summer internship at non profit - website for kids with disabilities
Business Intern at Artificial Intelligence Laboratories - Interned at firm based in San Francisco
Council Member at the City Club of Cleveland - year round
Intern at the Diversity Center of NEO
Discover U in Business at Miami University
Look Up to Cleveland Program
Lifeguard

2

When applying, do not state that you are asian. Just say black.

I would go Duke ED if I were you…unless you honestly love stanford significantly more. You are a URM, so the game is in your favor.

3

@ConcernedRabbit The thing is, I’m writing my college essay on my heritage, so wouldn’t it look suspect if I didn’t put asian? Also, can’t colleges see my mother’s name?

I love both schools honestly, I just like EA over ED. Yet I feel EAing to Stanford is a waste of time.

4

Your stats are too low for both, especially as a BME major. I think you should use the early round to apply to non bindings early action and rolling admissions match schools. Lock down an acceptance at a safety school, then reach.

Apply to your reaches in January with straight As on your midyear report and improved test scores.

5

@AroundHere I actually like your idea. The only issue at hand is the possibility of missing out the advantage of applying early. It gives you a little boost. It seems like a smart choice. Do you 100% honestly think I should wait?

6

Sorry about this. The physics AP 2 and AP calc 3 scores, the B grades in AP calc and physics, are serious hurdles for a stem admit at both schools.

The colleges will be concerned with your ability to keep up with peers in classes. This is a fierce competition. The early app advantage, if any, goes to kids very strongly prepared. And, matching in all the additional ways top schools expect. (Have you dug into what that is?)

Please think carefully.

Ps. Same issue for Yale (other thread mentions bio and econ as poss majors.) Also the top colleges can want math strengths for an econ major, plus better than B’s in English. Again, sorry.

7

In your case, no, I don’t see you getting an advantage by reaching early. You need a strong first term of senior year to have a chance.

8

Well the good news is that you definitely have the stats to qualify for admission to either of these amazing institutions! The couple of B’s here and there do not diminish your chances. The AP scores could be better; the physics one is not so good, as you obviously understand.

The bad news is that there are literally tens of thousands of kids with the same if not, better stats who will also be applying to these schools. So nothing is guaranteed and competition is fierce.

Something that I have noticed is that the students who are applying EA/ED are usually extremely strong applicants. With that being said, and I really do not say this to be mean, you will most likely be deferred. Most deferrals result in rejection.

If you are not 100% set on Duke, do not apply ED. I would, as other posters have suggested, work on strong 1st term grades and really figuring out which major and field are for you. Maybe focus on your passion rather than applying to these schools. That is probably one of the only ways to distinguish yourself at this point, in the short term, which may help your app.

Keep in mind that soooo many applicants are insanely qualified with better or similar stats; schools like Stanford will often try to choose applicants based on the essays. So do not rush yourself to compete with those who have obvious hooks and too-good-for-this-universe stats only to be deferred. Work on writing the best gosh darn essays for both schools.

You have wonderful stats that could get you into so many good universities with good scholarships. Spend the beginning term applying to these. Sit down and think about why you want Stanford and Duke; you have time now to compare them to other schools, perhaps you will find similar schools at which you would thrive and enjoy your life. Work on the safety apps soon because you can get good money, good housing, and possibly gain a spot at the best campuses of larger unis (ex: University Park @ PSU and the New Brunswick Campus of Rutgers University). Ohio State is an excellent school at which you, being an in-state student, would have quite a lot of opportunities.

In short, wait. Focus on getting straight A’s and writing some amazing, beautiful essays to boost your chances at these highly competitive schools. But do not close your mind to the numerous amazing opportunities that a student of your caliber will have.

9

It sounds like sports have been a big part of your life, so have you begun to explore the possibility of continuing either basketball or track in college?

10

A lot of students who have never had a B in their life (all A’s) get rejected by Stanford. Your best chance there is probably if you are strong enough to get in as an athlete. However, your test results suggest that the main issue with your grades is the amount of time that is taken up by sports. It certainly can be a big issue how to balance time between sports versus academics.

Is there a chance that you will be recruited for sports by either school? If so I would talk to them frankly about the need to balance sports and academics. It looks like you probably do have the academic ability to handle either school.

11

@DadTwoGirls You couldn’t have said it any better. Sports have taken up such a large chunk of my life, it is very hard to balance everything.

12

Just curious in terms of your EC’s, school basketball is a Winter sport and track is a spring sport, at least here in CA. What is your summer and your Fall filled with in terms of sports? Are you possibly missing club/AAU year round sports in your EC’s?

13

@sushiritto Well basically the basketball team has workouts year round. So in the summer and fall I’m still playing basketball I guess. I used to do AAU but I quit for track because they conflicted.

14

Typically, the schools here in CA don’t support year round basketball or any sport, so the kids will hook up with their club AAU teams and play the rest of the year.

I’m not an AO, but I would try to make it more clear/emphasize that your sports are year round in your EC’s. Maybe, maybe even weave them into your essay(s), so hopefully “counteracting” (explaining) in some small measure the lower GPA in terms of the elite schools. Bottom line, EC’s won’t make up for the lower GPA.

My D will probably be applying to Stanford too or at least I hope so. Good luck.

15

Is OP being recruited? Missed that.

The issue, from a competitive admit standpoint, is the B’s in math and sci, for stem, and the B"s in math, history and English, for econ. Plus that this grade hiccup happened once he upped the rigor to AP.

CC tends to to focus on admit chances while the top colleges focus on how this candidate will do once there and in classes.

On top of that, I don’t see OP knows what S, D, Y or whatever other top school looks for.

The wise approach will include learning more and selecting college targets wisely.

16

I was attempting to help massage his EC’s. That’s all.

17

bump

18

AP Exam scores themselves are insignificant compared to how you actually performed in the class, or so I am told. For example, if you took AP x class and got a C in the class but 5 on the exam, that’s not a favorable situation. Instead, an A+ in the class but a 3 on the exam will be seen as more favorable. Of course, an A+ with a 5 is the best situation.

What I am trying to say is that don’t dwell on your lower AP Exam scores (like physics).

I am curious to know what your class ranking is. Different HS have different levels of grading/grade inflation so your class rank is very important. GPA alone doesn’t really tell us very much. If you are at a school that grades very harshly for everyone, the admissions officer will know and take it into account when evaluating your application.

My suggestion is that when senior year begins, try to do well in your classes. If you feel that during this first semester you can make a significant comeback in your grades (straight A’s or something similar), then do that and apply regular decision. If you think you will get similar grades as before, then just shoot for REA or ED to your dream school. Leave no regrets.

The early application deadline is at least a month and a half into your first semester so you will have enough time to gauge your abilities.

Hope this helped.

19

I wish more understood that when you’re talking tippy tops, there is no “insignificant.” No C is ok, no 3 , except in very specific circumstance. (Like, the highly advanced STEM kid, already in college level math and/or sci, with strong related ECs, who just didn’t do well with foreign lang.)

OP said STEM. How can anyone say a low standardized score is ok cuz his hs teacher gave him a high grade? Can you comprehend the immense competition from kids with high grades, high rigor, and top scores all around?

Are you aware that in apps to tippy tops, half or more hs do not report rank? And they are not looking for moderate performers at top high schools. Too many applicants will be top performers at tough high schools.

There us no hall pass on this, no super essay or club you founded or little love note you send that gets them to ignore your whole picture.

20

@lookingforward Before you further attack my “understanding”, yes, I do “comprehend the immense competition from kids with high grades, high rigor, and top scores all around” and that “too many applicants will be top performers at tough high schools.”

I, in fact, come from a very competitive high school with high performers. I am also aware of the type of students who get into these schools every year from my school (not that this knowledge helps the OP in any way).

I can only speak from my own experience and what I have gathered over the course of talking to many people in college admissions. The matter of the fact is that students aren’t required to submit AP Exam scores in their college application. There isn’t even an option to send an official AP score report (to my knowledge). Most colleges put little attention to those exam scores in the admissions process. What I was trying to say with my example with C’s and 3’s is that a student’s performance in class is what is evaluated, to a much higher degree than the AP Exam score.

The reasoning behind this is that every school is different, and every high school has different AP Courses, to varying levels of competency in preparing students for the AP Exam. Student’s aren’t penalized for being in an AP Course at their high school that doesn’t adequately prepare them to get easy 5’s. Instead, they are evaluated based upon how they utilized the resources they had (thus GPA, grades, and transcript). This is the best indicator of whether or not they will be successful in college. At my school on average 50% of students in AP courses get 5’s, and 30% get 4s. Since the AP classes at my hs are open enrollment (no restrictions on who can take what), this speaks to the quality of teachers, students, and courses here. But the overwhelming majority of high schools aren’t like this.

As I have said before, “Of course, an A+ with a 5 is the best situation.”

Also, I am well aware that many high schools don’t rank. I come from a high school that doesn’t rank. (btw, just because a school doesn’t publically rank students doesn’t mean there isn’t an “internal” ranking in the system.) I only brought up ranking because it is beneficial to the OP to keep in mind the position in his class he’s at. Even though there is no ranking, he should be able to guage himself in comparison to his peers in a rough estimate manner.

Again as I have posted before, we have no idea how his transcript compares to his peers. A grade of B in your mind may be very subpar, but what if it was the third highest grade in that class? We have no idea how his school grades, and to what degree of grade inflation exists without ranking/percentile information. And as you have said, schools are looking for top performers; it is impossible to measure this without ranking or a rough percentile.

Many students may have a unique story that sets them apart. If the OP has a compelling story to tell, perhaps about his identity of being black and asian, he will have a fair shot. Plus, the OP is a minority student so he will get a considerable boost with that. He should also emphasize his experience in STEM and his passion for it.

The OP’s question is whether he should even apply to Stanford or Duke, especially early. My previous advice still stands. If he thinks he can utilize his first semester senior year well to boost his application in terms of grades or awards or etc, then he should apply regular. If not, apply early and hope for the best. Of course, the OP should think about his dream school, and not just about “strategy.”

lookingforward, I think you completely misread my previous post. I, in NO way, am suggesting that the OP should not care about grades and scores because low scores are “ok.” I was simply offering advice based on his current situation.