<p>I'm a Canadian who recently firmed an undergraduate offer from the London School of Economics for BSc International Relations. I am also holding offers from numerous Canadian universities including UofT. I have recently been considering going to law school in the US for a JD after finishing my undergrad studies. However, that's a very expensive undertaking, and I'm not sure if I'd be able afford it if I go to LSE, because I'll already have undergrad debt to pay off due to paying the overseas rate. On the other side of the coin, I have been offered significant scholarships by all of the Canadian schools. If I do undergrad in Canada, I will have little problem finding the resources to study law in the US. </p>
<p>To make my decision feel even more complicated, I've read all the usual articles about uncertainty for law grads. So my other option would be a master's in IR.</p>
<p>Why would you want a US JD as a Canadian studying undergrad in the UK? Also, I would heavily research the expected value of a degree in international relations. I would be astonished if it were better than even a low value law degree.</p>
<p>It’s true that an IR degree provides limited opportunities, but that’s why I have considered law school after completing my IR degree. It was my understanding that the undergraduate major doesn’t matter that much when applying to law school in North America so long as one does well on the LSAT.</p>
<p>That’s right but not a particularly good reason to go to law school in general, let alone an American law school. Now, you may find that you actually want to be a lawyer, which is a pretty good reason to go to law school. Nowhere else to go is not a good reason.</p>
<p>Demosthenes49, obviously I have considered that I actually want to be a lawyer, hence the reason I’ve considered spending nearly $100 K or more on a legal education be it in Canada, the US or elsewhere. I know that being a lawyer is not like Law & Order, nor is it all litigation, and I know that not all lawyers are rich. I know that it takes three years of study, a lot of reading, a lot of hard work, and that once you actually become a lawyer it involves more reading, more hard work, lots of hours and the risk of not getting hired in an over saturated market. Although after doing a lot of reading on this subject, it’s my understanding that the Canadian market is less saturated than the US market, so I guess it would make much more sense for me to simply go to law school in Canada.</p>
<p>When I stated “It’s true that an IR degree provides limited opportunities, but that’s why I have considered law school after completing my IR degree,” I never indicated that I did NOT want to be a lawyer. It’s an option that I have considered. I apologize for having options and for trying to craft out a path for myself, or worse, trying to actually do something with my life in a hyper competitive job market post recession in a world in which you need to work to make a living.</p>
<p>I haven’t heard that the Canadian legal market is any less saturated. Even if it were, the debt from an American school is still going to come in around $250k. I think going to law school in Canada if you want to practice in Canada is the smart move.</p>
<p>No, I got it. The point is that you want an American JD for no real reason you’ve mentioned. You’re a Canadian with a UK undergrad and you haven’t said anything about wanting to come work in the US. That means working in Canada, since you can’t transport an American JD anywhere else really. If you’re going to work in Canada it’s just silly to get a JD from a non-Canadian school. It’s cheaper and has better access to Canadian employers.</p>
<p>I was just assuming it would be obvious that having the intent to study for an American JD would mean I would eventually be seeking to work in the United States and not Canada. I understand that some people do not like this for the usual reasons. I also understand that it’s much harder for a non-citizen even with a US JD to get a job in the US. I’ve also considered taking a law conversion course in the UK after undergrad there, which would allow me to practice law in the UK.</p>
<p>I do not have an undergrad yet as I have only just firmed the offer from LSE, though hopefully in three years I will have it assuming all goes well. Right now I’m just trying to plan ahead. In regards to the price tag of law school in the US, it’s my understanding that if you do really well on the LSAT and have a good GPA (or a 1:1 from the UK) that some schools offer scholarships that significantly reduce the overall price, though obviously it would still be expensive.</p>
<p>It’s hard for an AMERICAN citizen with a US JD to get a job in the US. Do you not follow the news? There is a lawyer glut in the U.S. Since there are lots of unemployed lawyers in the U.S. to hire cheaply, why would an American law firm go to the hassle to sponsor a work visa for a Canadian? </p>
<p>Because of cheap telecommunications & globalization, many law firms in the U.S. and Canada are outsourcing work to an army of English-speakers in India (just like the call-center industry). U.S. & Canadian law firms then only need a few high-paid American or Canadian lawyers to sign off the work after it’s done in India for less than a 10th of the cost</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the legal market in the UK is actually worse than in the US, if you can believe it. In the UK lawyers do basically the analog of a residency after undergrad. Last year there were 4x as many law undergrads as available placements. Since those placements are required to get a job, that means at best 25% of UK law grads turn into lawyers. I have a friend who is a lawyer in the UK telling me even their lateral market is frigid. </p>
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<p>I think your desire to plan ahead is admirable. The problem is mostly that your plans are being upset by the realities of the economy and its effect on the legal market. Don’t feel too bad about this, it blew up everyone’s plans. You face an additional problem: you’re not a US citizen. That means you and your employer need to apply to USCIS for a work visa. That’s a headache for them they can avoid by hiring an American, and you’ll have plenty of them for competition. </p>
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<p>Most schools offer scholarships to some degree or another. However, even with hefty scholarships the schools are expensive, and many have stipulations to make as many students lose them as possible. Getting a scholarship is definitely better than not, but they will only help a bit.</p>
<p>The legal employment situation in Canada isn’t even remotely close to that in the U.S.</p>
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<p>It happens more frequently than you may think. Some NY firms participate in the Canadian OCI recruitment, although fewer these days than, say, ten years ago. There are Canadian students every year who end up at U.S. firms, from both Canadian and U.S. schools.</p>
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<p>Many in the U.S. perhaps. It’s still an anomaly in Canada and very few firms or in-house departments are outsourcing work internationally.</p>
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<p>Again, it happens every year in every admissions cycle.</p>
<p>This may well be true; I haven’t seen Canadian numbers. My second sentence applies with full force though: regardless of how good the Canadian market is, going to school in Canada is still a much better bet.</p>
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<p>There are students who end up as President of the United States. Doesn’t mean “want to be POTUS” is a good reason to go to law school.</p>
<p>I didn’t, and don’t, disagree with you. In fact, it’s what I posted in #6.</p>
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<p>Not sure what that has to do with what I said. I was replying to the quoted question asked by gmt. He seemed to think that no firm would hire Canadian students, and that’s simply not true.</p>
<p>It would be difficult for a firm in the U.S. to rationalize hiring a Canadian lawyer over an American lawyer if he has NO work experience. </p>
<p>I work overseas. Every country I have worked in requires significant prior work experience (the norm is 10 years) to justify a work visa. Or the company has to document that it could not find a qualified local citizen to hire for the job. A PhD engineering graduate from a foreign country might easily get sponsored by a U.S. company for a work permit straight out of school, bcs that skill/expertise is in short supply, but lawyers are far from being in short supply in the U.S.</p>
<p>Given the extraordinary high cost of going to law school, the high experience threshold for getting a skilled job in a foreign country, the multitude of available local citizens, and the poor outlook for the law profession in the U.S., I can think of much less risky paths for the OP to pursue.</p>
<p>My point was that the mere fact some Canadians in American law schools get hired by US firms is no reason to go to an American school. The question is not “do any Canadians get hired” but rather “at what rate are Canadians hired.” Couple that with the visa issues GMTplus7 brings up and I cannot advise a Canadian to go to school in the US to try to work in the US. Sadly, our immigration process is absurdly restrictive.</p>
<p>The H1B visa allows for firms to hire Canadians relatively easily. It’s valid for three years, and if no formal immigration process, e.g., green card, is started during that time, can be renewed. This happens all the time, both with Canadian students in U.S. law schools and Canadian students at Canadian law schools. Grads of all Canadian common law programs are eligible to write the bar in NY and MA, and with a few caveats, in other states. Employers, as I said, participate in OCI recruitment every fall at Canadian law schools and I know that dozens of students from the law school my D attended end up at NY firms for their 2L summer, and beyond. The visas are relatively easy to get, and do not require any type of extensive work experience in this situation.</p>
<p>Having said that, and as I mentioned many posts ago in this discussion, it makes little sense for a Canadian to attend an American law school. Keep in mind that this OP is a 17 or 18 year old high school kid who may change his mind about law school between now and when he has to start the process for applying.</p>
<p>joeco, if you are truly interested in getting some accurate information about Canadian law schools, and Canadians who may be interested in eventually practicing in the U.S., have a look at this site.</p>
<p>It will likely disabuse you of the notion but, in the process, you will find an abundance of information useful to your own situation. Good luck.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t go into debt attending LSE either. My D spent a semester abroad at LSE albeit at the grad school level but liked the style of teaching and advanced technology offered by US schools.</p>