<p>The colleges’ pricing schemes aren’t punishing anybody–they’re just giving a discount to some poorer people because they think that’s a good idea. It would be like saying Duke is “punishing” full-pay students by giving somebody else an athletic scholarship.</p>
<p>Lexus isn’t punishing me if it decides to give away some cars to poor people.</p>
<p>OP - I definitely do not in any way perceive that you have failed your daughter. You evaluated your family’s circumstances, and made what you believed was the decision that best served their interests. She sounds like an amazing young woman, and these sorts of people tend to do very well wherever they go. So, stop beating yourself up.</p>
<p>The fact that there have been no more posts from OP is suggestive, but it’s still been a reasonable discussion, albeit one we’ve had before.</p>
<p>As I’ve said before, anyone who thinks low-income families have a better deal, is free to lower their lifestyle to the level that the low-income family is already at. Then there will be lots of money left over to pay for multiple college experiences (considering how high an income one can have at the top colleges and still get aid, a family who doesn’t qualify probably has an income two or three full-pay college bills over the income of a family getting full aid.) </p>
<p>Admittedly, few families are willing to choose that low level of day to day income–those “lucky” low-income families don’t have to worry about choosing!</p>
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Every so often one of these posts comes along where the OP needs a good swift “attitude readjustment”. You do realize your attitude amounts to envying people poorer than yourself, right? And that it’s really really easy to become one of those people? Divest, embrace the poverty - ascetics to it all the time.</p>
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The comic strip “Tom the Dancing Bug” has a series of strips about “Lucky Ducky” that trenchantly address this theme.</p>
<p>Also, with an admit rate of 6% she is likely to get rejected by Harvard anyway even though she is an excellent candidate. Most of 35,000 applicants are as wonderful as she is.
So it is probably a moot point anyway ;-)</p>
<p>I still think the Billy Goats are in full play here but I’ll just add that savings don’t have a really huge effect on EFC, not if in the parents’ name anyway. After a certain exempted amount and depending on age, I believe it’s expected that parents will use about 5% of savings per year to pay for college.</p>
<p>Income means a lot more in EFC calculations. And of course if more than one kid is in college at a time, that lowers the expected family contribution too.</p>
<p>Of course Harvard requires the Profile to determine how much of its own aid it will give, and that’s a different animal.</p>
<p>…so I guess if one wishes to maximize one’s ability to pay for "meets full need"colleges, one saves up over time then takes a very low paying job or keeps the high paying job but downsizes radically so the excess income is available.</p>
<p>We can all join Corey Booker on his quest to live on Food Stamps to see just how lucky those poor folk are. Join me on line at the food pantry for some USDA excess peanut butter.</p>
<p>There are some good reasons to not bother with the Ivies - including some that emphasize grad students, pretentious attitudes, extremely unpredictable admissions, etc.</p>
<p>However, there are many many excellent colleges that offer merit aid, including many of the top 60 liberal arts colleges in the country. In a number of ways, those top liberal arts colleges can offer a much better undergraduate education, as well as much smaller class sizes and much more personalized attention than the Ivies. I know of one liberal arts college president who travels around the Northeast to speak personally to law and grad school admissions officials to tell them personally about the greatness of individual students.</p>
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<p>You are replying on a thread of someone they are punishing. </p>
<p>He is being charged a surcharge by these institutions because of his unspeakable crime of being an employed professional who had had to foresight to save some of his money. He is being charged above the fair tuition rate because the University then wants to turn around and give discounts to people they like. </p>
<p>What other business runs this way? Sure other markets have differential pricing, but usually you have to do something behavioral or a get premium product. If you book your airline ticket at the last minute you may pay more because of something behavioral. Or if you decide to fly first class you subsidize supersaver seats but you got something in return. Imagine if every business decided to soak you based on how much was in your bank account. Coffee would be $15 and steaks would cost $50 and then you’d have to fill out a FAF to find out what your true price was. </p>
<p>Clear OP does feel punished by these pricing decisions.</p>
<p>OP’s kid didn’t even apply to these schools. Plus OP registered last night and posted his one and only post last night. I doubt OP is real.</p>
<p>These are, for the most part, private colleges and universities and set their pricing the way they choose. For anyone who is paying attention the financial aid situation is not that hard to figure out.</p>
<p>There is plenty of price discrimination in the real world: children and senior citizens get discounts on movie tickets and train tickets. Some banks and credit unions pay higher interest rates on accounts of children. Amusement parks charge different prices for different types of customers. You can choose to patronize these firms or not - it is up to you.</p>
<p>Financial aid for upper-middle income families is actually much better at a few universities like Harvard. Again - it is Harvard’s decision to price discriminate in this way, and if you don’t like it don’t apply. For many of these schools the average expense (costs paid by the university) of an undergraduate education is actually higher than even the price charged full-pay students. So everyone gets a discount, it is just that some customers get a bigger discount.</p>
<p>Exactly. At my alma mater, every millionaire’s kid gets a $140k discount (“scholarship”) paid for by the likes of me. And they think it is a good idea for those kids to mix with ones like mine, which is why they bid for her services above the $140k subsidy (but she turned them down).</p>
<p>Something else to keep in mind when planning college for multiple children is that the EFC is distributed between all of the kids in college at the same time. So, my current EFC will be split between both kids in Sept '14 when my S starts college. His last two years of school will be more expensive, just as my D’s first two years are more expensive. </p>
<p>Just something to think about when you have many kids. $20K is $20 K for one kid or for four.</p>
<p>Argybargy, do you choose what services and products to choose for your family by what they cost other people? Or do you look at your needs and budget and plan accordingly?</p>
<p>Yes, we’ve had this discussion before. No, it’s not really about trying to determine whether it’s easier for a $60K income to pay $23K per year vs. $85K income paying $38K per year–that’s ludicrous to argue and it scares the sheep… :)</p>
<p>What I have seen and what frosts me–although I can’t do a dang thing about it–is when parents are financially irresponsible by their own doing, maybe vice-related, maybe spending-related, and because of lower salaries, no savings and a zero EFC, can game the system into a very cheap high-quality college education for their smart kid. </p>
<p>I am gratified, however, that the kid has done well despite the ne’er-do-well parents. And I know that this situation is the exception rather than the rule. Maybe this is an example of the Mafia credo–“ths sins of the father shall not be visited upon their sons”.</p>
<p>Argbargy- my son’s car insurance costs more because he’s male. He has a perfect driving record- not even a parking ticket. That’s how insurance is priced. My health insurance costs more than a man’s does (same age, non-smoker, etc.) because I’m female.</p>
<p>There are loads of goods and services where the pricing is inconsistent across pools of people. You don’t like it- shop around and get a better deal. Just like the OP is doing- find a school with merit aid or which has a lower sticker price.</p>
<p>OP is emphatically NOT being punished for being a professional who had the foresight to save money. Colleges expect tuition to be paid via three pockets- past earnings (savings and investments); current earnings (your salary) and future earnings (loans.) It is every parents prerogative NOT to make those savings or future earnings available to pay for college-- but there are very few people who are able to actually write the check for the full amount out of their current salary. Almost everyone else uses savings, current and future (loans).</p>
<p>OP doesn’t want to borrow- hey, his money, his choice. Doesn’t want his kid to borrow- same deal. Wants to preserve his savings to help the next in line child, his retirement, whatever- his choice. Doesn’t want to cut expenses to the bone to pay tuition-- again, his right. But that doesn’t mean he’s a victim since there are tens of thousands of parents who are doing just that right now to make the numbers add up.</p>
<p>He’s making a rational choice- that doesn’t make him a victim. A single mom in Bridgeport CT who drives a school bus and grosses $500/week, lives in public housing, and has an EFC of zero-- how exactly is that victimizing the OP? The likelihood that her kids are going to be able to “take advantage” of their poverty by qualifying for one of the handful of schools which will allow her kids to get a college education for free is- pretty close to zero. Her EFC is not zero at U Conn; not at any of the community colleges in the state; most of the privates won’t even come close to enough aid to attend.</p>
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OP can feel however he likes. We can all understand the frustration with coming to terms with the high costs of college now. But the simple fact is that if he wants to be poor so he can get some help from other people then it won’t take much to get there.</p>
<p>*
2016BarnardMom</p>
<p>Something else to keep in mind when planning college for multiple children is that the EFC is distributed between all of the kids in college at the same time. So, my current EFC will be split between both kids in Sept '14 when my S starts college. His last two years of school will be more expensive, just as my D’s first two years are more expensive. </p>
<p>Just something to think about when you have many kids. $20K is $20 K for one kid or for four.
*</p>
<p>That’s not really true in many/most cases.</p>
<p>1) FAFSA may split EFC 50/50 or 33/33/33 between 2 or 3 kids, but FAFSA-only schools usually don’t meet need.</p>
<p>2) CSS schools (that meet need) don’t split the family contribution 50/50. CSS schools split 60/60. So if you’re paying $40k for 1 child at a CSS full need school, then you’ll about $25k per child…$50k total. If you have 3 in college, you’ll pay about $20k per child …about $60k total.</p>
<p>Also, each CSS school can have its own calculations…one might consider home equity and one might not.</p>
<p>Of course, if you have multiples in college and 1 kid is at at CSS full need school and the other is at a FAFSA only school that doesn’t meet need, you could end up paying a LOT more than your EFC.</p>
<p>So, Barnardmom, you will likely pay out more money next year when your son matriculates even if your son attends a full need school.</p>