<p>The course is called introduction to philosophy: reality and knowledge. My friend and I thought it sounded cool. There is a 100 or 101 course called logic and critical thinking, but the 102a is transferable under the IGETC. The 101 class sounds like a waste of time/boring too. Should my friend and I go ahead and jump right into the 102a class? Or would we be too unexperienced and struggle? There are no prereqs for 102a, by the way, I'm just apprehensive.</p>
<p>You should be fine. I took a critical thinking philosophy class and it didn’t cover any philosophers, it’s more like an English class where you learn formal fallacies, analyzing arguments and things of that nature. Logic is about turning an argument into symbols and is more like math. The class you want to take seems to be about epistemology which will cover actual philosophers/ philosophies like Descartes, Hume, rationalism vs empiricsm, etc. So don’t worry about it, if there’s no prerequisite you will not be expected to know anything about philosophy prior to taking that class.</p>
<p>Are you from San Diego? 102A was my 1st philosophy class. Glorious day when I signed up for it. :)</p>
<p>Go ahead and take it. The material is pretty cool, but it can get hard. Reality and Knowledge (normal for Metaphysics and Epistemology) studies questions like what is real, can we have any contact with this reality, what do we know for certain, is it reliable, etc. It sounds dense but what makes it fun is the theories you’ll study. </p>
<p>Take Kant for example. His Critique of Pure Reason is known as one of the hardest works in the history of philosophy. I heard a story that a friend of Kant started reading the book and sent it back to him half-read with a note that said he couldn’t continue because he feared insanity. I don’t know if it’s true but it might as well be.</p>
<p>@ Salmos Yes I am attending mesa college in the fall and am already planning my transfer (psych major) to either UCLA or Berkeley, or maybe UCSD. I think I will take this course, even though I just found out that I could just take philos 205 in the future to fulfill both a philos and english requirement. Or is it bad decision to take a class you don’t need? Any advice would help?</p>
<p>^^I highly doubt they will read Kant, or at least, will read Kant at anywhere above a sparknotes level. </p>
<p>This class sounds like the most basic philosophy class you can take. It sounds like the Intro to Philosophy class I took, where we mainly discussed Descartes and Berkeley and their theories on reality and knowledge. It’s not too hard. </p>
<p>I agree with the poster who said that a “critical thinking” class will not actually cover any philosophers, and most likely, it will not cover any sort of formal logic. So it’s actually a very good class to take to strengthen your writing and pure analytic skills without being distracted with difficult readings or math. But if you are looking for a class that actually discusses philosophy, that is not the class for you. Interesting that that class doesn’t transfer, I thought that there was actually a specific part of IGETC for a critical thinking writing class.</p>
<p>@andrewexd Nice! Sounds very mentally stimulating! I think I want to take it even though I don’t really have to. I think I will sign up, go the first week, and if I think there’s a chance of me getting an A, then I’ll stick around.</p>
<p>if there’s no pre-req requirements it really doesn’t matter. you’ll be fine.</p>
<p>@Shannon13 The required critical thinking/writing course you are thinking of is listed on my IGETC flyer as either Philosophy 205 or English 205. Should I just wait and do Philos 205 later on and kill 2 birds with one stone? That would count as my IGETC critical thinking requirement and also as my philos requirement for UCLA psych transfer.</p>
<p>I would do a philosophical critical thinking course over an english critical thinking course but then again I am obviously biased. Philosophical critical thinking is all about logic and how analyzing how strong an argument is. What I learned in my English critical thinking class, was how to ******** about nothing and over analyze stuff that doesn’t matter in literature I found uninteresting. A lot of the things taught in an English critical thinking class (at least, in the one I took, which happened to be an honors course too) are regarded by other fields to be pseudo-intellectual, which is nicer way of saying BS. That was definitely my experience. Lots of “oh the color of the jacket represents this” and pretty much everything ended up being a phallic symbol by the end of the course. Not my cup of tea at all. But please, take what I just said with at least a grain of salt, because I have been studying philosophy now for 4 years :). </p>
<p>I am all in support of killing 2 birds with one stone, just make sure that is okay. There is a limit to how many units can be used to overlap different requirements. I have no idea what that would be for UCLA.</p>
<p>I agree with Shannon, I took critical thinking classes in both English and Philosophy and they were nothing alike. The English class was “Critical thinking through Literature” and there was no discernible difference from any other English class I have taken. It was soooo boring. I was shocked that the two classes could fulfill the same critical thinking requirement! The critical thinking philosophy course I took was much more practical and definitely helped me outside of class, and in the study of philosophy, which is one of my majors. The course I took covered formal fallacies, constructing and critiquing arguments, analyzing statistics, surveys and studies, and more. I would definitely suggest you take the philosophy class over English. My original major was Economics and Accounting but I decided to add philosophy and double major because it’s so interesting to me.</p>
<p>Shannon, I took the exact same class at the same college as the poster, and we read some Kant, along with original material from several other philosophers. It’s still introductory, so you’re right about that.</p>
<p>As far as the difference between the Philosophy and English critical thinking requirement, I took both. Contrary to what you two got stuck with, my English 205 class had nothing to do with literature (it really shouldn’t). It was true-blue practical critical thinking (to this day it’s been one of my favorite classes), the way it was meant to be. </p>
<p>OP, they rarely teach Philosophy 205 at Mesa so I wouldn’t recommend waiting for it. I took it at City with Thompson (she’s great) and it’s basically a bioethics class. If you do end up having to take ENG. 205 at Mesa, take Kesinger. You won’t get any of that arbitrariness common to English classes that I despise so much.</p>
<p>Thanks salmos, very good advice. I’m taking eng 101 this semester so i’ll just have to wait and see which (and where) to get that 205 requirement done. Thanks for thoroughly comparing the exact classes and recommending some profs. </p>
<p>May I ask where you ended up after Mesa or what your plans are/were? Any advice? Did you do the honors program? Any must-have profs? I’m tryin to transfer for psych at UCLA (or maybe psych and poli sci), but that’s a couple years off.</p>
<p>I’m just trying to be proavtive about getting a sky high GPA</p>
<p>I’m starting Berkeley this fall for rhetoric (I applied as philosophy and that was my plan but it’s a BAD year for philosophy course offerings at Cal and rhetoric is very similar if you take the right classes). My plan was actually to go to UCLA but things changed, people change you know. So don’t freak out if you start doubting everything you’re doing late in your community college stay. It’s normal.</p>
<p>General advice? I’ll tell you one thing. You want a sky-high GPA, but don’t let that be a reason to look for the easiest filler classes out there. One thing people don’t really understand is that community college isn’t just a passive, disattached means to get to a university. It’s an experience of its own, and you’ll regret not making the best of it. If you find yourself needed a class with a “terrible” professor, don’t immediately rule it out. You probably won’t always have great professors at uni either, and once you’re at a UC you’ll have no choice but to take certain teachers that you’d never take if you were given the choice (it’s best to be prepared with some difficult CC classes). </p>
<p>I didn’t take honors but it’s not a big deal. You’ll probably just get one extra assignment (maybe like a big essay or an extra presentation) if you take a class as honors. </p>
<p>You’re a psychology major, I’ve only taken one psychology class, 245 (Abnormal Psychology) with Mackenzie. Take her, take that class if you can. She also teaches psychology 276 (field work). It’s a volunteer work class, you meet once a week and do your volunteer work outside of class. I didn’t take it but it might interest you, since you’re majoring in it.</p>
<p>Also beware of the 101 classes. Really research the professors (if you haven’t taken Psych. 101 yet) b/c a lot of 101 classes are taught in a way that’s geared toward everyone else who’s just doing it for IGETC. Make sure you get a professor who will actually give you a broad, serious intro to psychology. It won’t be hard, but make sure you actually learn something.</p>
<p>Great info, salmos! Glad things are going well for you too. You’re right I should definitely try to get a good balance of somewhat-easy A’s and some thought provoking classes like PHIL102a. By the way, what prof did you have for 102a? I looked on ratemyprof and everyone said they’re either boring or total athiests. My choices are furrow, pettina, mussachia, and kuttnauer</p>
<p>If you are scared of atheism you should not take a philosophy class.</p>
<p>I’m not scared of athiesm (i’m agnostic myself), I just don’t want to have to listen to an anti god rant several times per class. I guess philosophy entails some of that, but I just don’t want to get to annoyed or bored</p>
<p>You have been misinformed. Philosophy does not entail any anti god rants. Philosophy is actually the opposite of ranting. </p>
<p>Philosophy seeks to answer questions not sufficiently answered by science or religion through the use of reason and obviously there are many people who believe that religion does not sufficiently answer any questions. So, especially in your class on reality and knowledge, you will read a few philosophers who present their arguments on human existence. If you take an ethics course, you will discuss ethical theories. These arguments are generally contrary to most religions (even though most do support the idea of a god or god like thing), so this makes some religious people very uncomfortable, so it’s really only those people who would think that reasoning about human nature as an “anti god rant.”</p>
<p>That’s all true. But I think he’s talking about personalities. I’ve had those kind of professors (always taking stabs at the idea of God), and it does get annoying. </p>
<p>Ok, I took Pidgeon who was a very well-know philosophy professor. He doesn’t teach at Mesa anymore though. He retired last year, although he still does 1 class a semester at City (otherwise he misses the kids). Mussachia is the anti-god professor, remember that. Furrow and Pettina are old-timers, and I hear Pettina’s really good. Don’t know the other guy.</p>
<p>I’ve never experienced that with philosophy. Obviously, most professors are open minded and less quick to judge (or at least, better about controlling their tongue) because of their extensive education, but I think in other departments it might be easier to have some biases and have them expressed in class (like maybe poli sci or econ). But philosophy is all about reason and I think the way most of them tend to use Descartes philosophy (the only thing I can know without a doubt is that I exist) when they speak. All of my professors have been very quick to back down from proclaiming they know the truth and I’ve never heard any (and I’ve had probably 16+ profs/GSIs by now) take a stab at the idea of God. Lots do make jokes however that are intended to provoke thought.</p>
<p>I’m sorry you’ve had bad philosophy professors, but this is very atypical.</p>
<p>Do we get to take a logic class like the math thingy? That sounds cool!</p>
<p>Sent from my SGH-T959V using CC</p>