Should I talk about the Vietnam war?

Parents Forum
21

<p>Let me be clear that I’m in no way having an agenda to criticize the US (I was born 15 years removed from the war). That rather violent description of the war serves merely as a backdrop/source of conflict from which their virtues truly shone. And no I’m not applying HYP. Some of my schools include Grinnell, Carleton and Oberlin.</p>

<p>Edit: Thank you for all of your suggestions. I will definitely revise my prose. I guess the use of loaded language to emphasize the contrast could be misconstrued as criticism.</p>

22

<p>How old are your parents? The Vietnam War ended in 1975, almost 35 years ago. If they were medics during the war, they must be approaching age 60 or so (?). And are you, what, maybe 17? It’s certainly not impossible for you to have been born when your Mom was 40+, but that jumped out at me right away. </p>

<p>As far as the essay is concerned, mentioning your parents could be fine, but I also think it might be more helpful for you to explain why you want to come to the U.S.</p>

23

<p>Sorry, I think the digression is my fault–on second read, the backhanded 3rd-person reference to bovertine looks more incendiary than I intended it to be. All I meant to say was “yes, there are some Americans who are very sensitive to criticisms of the US and may be offended by that passage, and here we’ve just seen a good example.”</p>

<p>I think Hunt has given good advice in this regard.</p>

24

<p>

</p>

<p>OP- truthfully, I don’t think your post was offensive. I don’t really think you have to revise it (except for grammar and spelling if necessary). And frankly, I think your sensitivity to the fact that some people might take offense to it shows a level of insight above most of the other posters on this thread. </p>

<p>Now, so I don’t further disrupt the broadminded attitude on here, I will stop posting in this thread so everybody can discuss all the differing opinions they seem to value so much.</p>

<p>I said “on this thread” by the way. I hope I am still free to post on other threads.</p>

<p>Edit- Thanks nightchef. I overreacted as well. This is supposed to be the parent’s thread after all.</p>

25

<p>I’m sorry the years are really fuzzy to me right now but I’m quite sure that they both were medics. My dad is 60+ and my mom is in her middle 50s. Maybe then enlisted when they were pretty young? I could ask my mom about this but it’s 12am here lol.</p>

<p>The other point of my essay (chemistry-related but without parents) I believe demonstrate my intellectual curiosity pretty well and it’s kinda implied that I will thrive in the academics of college.</p>

26

<p><a href=“I%20was%20born%2015%20years%20removed%20from%20the%20war”>QUOTE</a>

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>This is why I say you need to tell your story, not your parents’. Maybe once you have your entire essay completed, you could come back and post it here (nobody in his right mind would consider stealing it ;)) - while I find your parents’ story intriguing, I would like to see how you will write your essay about YOU.</p>

27

<p>Bovertine, you need to face the fact that BOTH sides in that conflict had both virtues and flaws and BOTH sides were guilty of cruelty towards the Vietnamese people. Your understanding appears to be astonishingly shallow, and the fact that you immediately leapt to personal insults does not speak well for you.</p>

<p>OP, college ad coms are unlikely to be narrow-minded people like Bovertine. They will think–rightly, IMHO–that having someone on campus whose family experienced another side of that conflict would be an enriching experience for most students.</p>

28

<p>Mcpheevn, I agree, please emphasize your experiences. For one, I’m aware that the literacy rate is extremely high (in the 90’s). I’m also aware that people are striving hard to become economically sound and to make their way into a modern world. Further, while I saw many young children there, I did see large banners encouraging birth control in every city visited. It seems to me there is much that the country is trying to achieve, and yet, there is corruption in the government, a weak infrastructure and all of the other flaws that beset the best of us. I think colleges want to see how you will make a contribution to the modern world. So see if you can convey that experience through the context of your life. The experiences of your parents are part of that context and belong somewhere in the essay, but emphasis should be on you.</p>

29

<p>

</p>

<p>If you leave the language in, you just have to be aware that it could possibly hurt you and you might never know it. The admissions officer might not even be aware of it. Let’s say the person reading the app is the daughter of a Vietnam War vet. She reads two applications with very similar stats. But for some reason that she may not even realize, she likes the other one better than yours. </p>

<p>Last year a young man posted about whether he should list hunting as an EC. Same sort of thing. An admissions officer would never say, “I didn’t recommend him because he’s a hunter.” It might just be the slight negative that puts him in the “no” pile instead of the “yes” pile.</p>

30

<p>Since you asked - I don’t think there’d be an issue with including the general statement about your parents’ perseverance during the war (although I’m not sure it’s that relevant to you) however, the statements you quoted are filled with words that might well be offensive to many and are certainly politically charged, which is fine that you feel that way but others might not, and you can see already from the posts here and especially on the political forum how emotional people on all sides get when it comes to politics.</p>

<p>Phrases like …B-52 bombing mercilessly…tanks rampaging the streets…toxic agent orange casting many a mournful sunset… are all subjective and politically charged. Are you trying to use the essay to provide insight about yourself or are you trying to use it as a forum for your political opinions and nature of the people in the country you’re attempting to go to or are you trying to write a novel? Many of the adcoms will either have been in the Vietnam war, have had a relative in it, or had a friend in it. While that doesn’t mean they agreed with every facet of that war they might also disagree that their relatives and friends were ‘merciless’ and ‘rampaging’ and take some offense to that characterization. These sentences might not have your desired effect on the adcoms but it would come down to the individual readers as to the effect it had on them. </p>

<p>I suggest thinking through what you’re trying to accomplish and focusing on that.</p>

31

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/11/17/technology/AP-AS-Vietnam-Facebook.html?_r=2&scp=2&sq=vietnam&st=cse[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/11/17/technology/AP-AS-Vietnam-Facebook.html?_r=2&scp=2&sq=vietnam&st=cse&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Vietnamese people are innocent. But the Vietnamese government still consider American their enemy~~~</p>

32

<p>Wow that is beautifully written. You should include it.</p>

<p>I was just thinking about that book about Christmas shared by Allied forces and Germans at either side of the trenches, in the 1940’s. Looking back at any war, it is always interesting to read about the experience of the “other side.” Americans write about Hiroshima and Nagaskaki too.</p>

<p>It reads naturally and organically, not as if you are trying to make a political statement against the US. It’s honest and powerful, without trying to be. It’s fine.</p>

<p>Congratulation on your beautiful writing style. As someone said, there are some minor English details to clean up, but it is very well-expressed.</p>

33

<p>

How could you possibly read that paragraph and imagine that the writer was seeking a “forum for his political opinions”? The experience he describes was very real for the people it happened to, regardless of one’s views about the pros and cons of the policies that produced it. It’s one thing to point out that words like “mercilessly” might (even if used accurately) provoke distracting defensive responses from some American readers; but it’s another thing entirely to question the motives of the person using them, or to imagine that he is more interested in rubbing salt in our old wounds than he is in presenting his story as effectively as possible to the colleges he’s trying to get into. Good grief.</p>

34

<p>If anyone can find a cure for the effects of Agent Orange, there are many American Vietnam vets who will be eternaly grateful, along with Vietnamese of all political persuasions. It is a good reason to want to study chemistry.</p>

<p>I agree that some of the words used in the post may be too strong. I disagree about second-guessing what a reader will find objectionable. There are people who are for or against hunting, for or against meat consumption, who believe or do not in global warming; who believe or do not that the US was right to invade Iraq; who think or do not think that fraternities are a great thing; that the legal age for drinking should be lowered. The list can go on and on and on.
If the OP was inspired by stories his/her parents told about their war experiences, it is absolutely fine to include it. The OP just needs to remember that the parents are not the ones applying to colleges and that the adcoms are not interested in them.</p>

35

<p>

</p>

<p>That is fine as long as the applicant is the type of person who won’t second guess. If an applicant can say what they want to say with perfect peace of mind and no self doubt, even if the topic is controversial, then do it. But if you’ll be forever wondering if one sentence kept you out of a dream school, edit.</p>

36

<p>Yes, but if you think that the adcom won’t tolerate vegans, hunters, etc…, then the school is no great loss.</p>

37

<p>Every 6 weeks, when I get my hair cut, I get a manicure. Last time it was Fleet Week, and the Blue Angels were practicing. The noise echoed off the buildings and was a nuisance for most of us in the salon, but for my manicurist it was extremely disturbing. Even though she has been in the US for 35 years, the sound of those jets brought back her childhood and adolescent experiences in Viet Nam. She talked a little about how she had felt during bombing raids. This was not a political discussion, it was about feelings. When you’re on the ground and jets are dropping bombs around you, it feels merciless. In fact, bombing by definition is merciless. Once that bomb is dropped there is no appeal. The bomber can’t change its mind and let you off with a slap on the wrist.</p>

<p>I agree, however, that B-52’s can’t hover.</p>

38

<p>

My point was that the words ‘might’ evoke a negative response on the part of the reader due to some of the wording including ‘mercilessly’ and ‘rampaging’. Although you seem to agree somewhat with this you seemed to miss the majority of my point however. My point was simply that with the wording the OP might evoke certain emotions they weren’t planning to evoke on the part of the reader and might not be in the best interest of the OP being viewed favorably by the particular reader. The wording goes beyond describing the conditions the parents were under that the OP was trying to connect somehow to their own situation. I assume what the OP really wants is to write an essay the adcoms will view favorably from an admissions perspective. But as I said, everyone is different and one can’t predict how each adcom will react to the section. If the OP feels that it’s important to make those statements and that they’ll help to achieve the goal of getting admitted then fine - but the OP may or may not be helped by them.</p>

39

<p>Don’t write to get your parents in. This essay is about YOU.</p>

<p>Your concept is interesting. However, especially because you are trying to make a point about war and medicine, not a political argument about the U.S.'s actions in Vietnam, I’d change your phrase a bit. Keep the B-52s, lose the Agent Orange unless they treated people for Agent Orange exposure, and bring up how, like all combat medics are supposed to do, they worked through people doing horrible things to each other in order to save lives. Were I alive during the Vietnam War, I would have wholeheartedly opposed our involvement and campaigned for peace. However, I don’t believe that all of the carnage of that war came from Americans alone. Talk about compassion, perhaps if they treated civilians hurt in crossfire (crossfire is good to describe because it is indiscriminate and condemns war as a whole, not a country) and especially if they treated any American or ARVN soldiers.</p>

<p>Some may be a bit offended if you describe American involvement as “merciless.” The war was evil, but remember that some people will not see bomber pilots as having the same kind of vicious character as the infantrymen who, on the ground, knowingly killed civilians like at My Lay. War is atrocious, yet only a few kinds of action are called atrocity. Remember that element of perspective.</p>

<p>Agent Orange could be useful if you are talking about how it affected Vietnamese regardless of politics and also U.S. troops. However, don’t mention it if your parents weren’t involved in treating people for exposure.</p>

<p>FYI, some of the “Best and Brightest” at Ivy League schools were in charge of planning that war. While Ivy professors have a liberal reputation, it does not mean that they are radical and does not mean that there aren’t conservatives and people who are uncomfortable with a tone that attacks the U.S. itself in such a way. I’m just saying, consider your audience. Aim for the middle for politics and emotional/political appeal. Be pragmatic, not dogmatic.</p>

<p>Best of luck. I hope this helps. Can you chance me? I’d appreciate it. Here’s the link. Thanks. Peace.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/811352-crossing-my-fingers.html?highlight=Crossing+Fingers[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/811352-crossing-my-fingers.html?highlight=Crossing+Fingers&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

40

<p>As an ESOL teacher- all levels from K thru adult ed- I ended my career teaching in college. I had students from all over the world and did my best to value each for the unique beings they were. I was particularly impressed by one young lady from Vietnam who was not only the first in her family to attend college, but the first to graduate from high school. That being said, I am distressed at the thought of a student writing college essays which need to be checked by others for spelling and grammatical errors.OP, have you taken the TOEFL exam? I know that American universities are admitting students who have had multiple failures on the TOEFL and the students are not being well served. If you are applying as an internaitional student, I would rather read an essay that you had written by yourself and which gave me insight into who you are, not a polished version which was obviously corrected (they’ll know, believe me, based upon your TOEFL score!). You may even begin by stating that you are going to write this and will be doing your best but know that your English skills will improve by studying in the US. By the way- I would also suggest that you omit the reference to the Vietcong, simply because there is a very good chance that you may encounter administrators who had experience in that war, and there is no sense in getting off to a bad start. That may not seem right, but it’s a very real possibility. If there is anything I can do to help you with any information, please PM me and ask. There’s something about ESOL teachers, we just can’t retire!
Good Luck to you!</p>