Should you try to visit Junior year (or before)?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>The question about making Junior year visits seems to come up every year and seems to always elicit strong feelings!</p>

<p>The conventional CC wisdom of waiting until you know where you're accepted before making visits is just very, very logical and makes the most sense, especially for those of us who live places far from most of the well-known MT schools in the southeast, northeast and midwest. That was certainly the approach we used.</p>

<p>HOWEVER, we did not count of D ending up on FOUR waitlists (so far!) and are now in a bit of a dilemma because if she gets in to any of them after May 1 there really won't be time to make a visit, AND the cost of buying last minute tickets will be exorbitant! So we are faced with either simply declining the wait list offers (which we will do for one of them), trying to schedule visits now, not knowing whether she'll get in. (which we will do for the favorite) and delaying the decision and possibly declining the offers later, depending on what happens with the favorite.</p>

<p>We ARE making visits to 2 of the accepted schools, and declining two of the accepted offers, which makes things a little easier. </p>

<p>Obviously I am NOT complaining about having too many options! It's a great problem to have, but I think maybe if we had done some earlier visits (making a family vacation out of it and seeing additional sights along the way) some of this could have been avoided.</p>

2

<p>Tracy, thanks for starting this thread. I always feel out of step on CC in this regard, as I’m a strong believer in visiting early and often–probably in part because of experience as parent and teacher/advisor with kids who found, at both LACs and arts schools, that they needed to compare schools and get clear impressions of campus and students before deciding where to apply. And many of the smaller LACs are attentive to “demonstrated interest,” making visits important for admissions. However, clearly it’s different for everyone and downright impossible for some people to do extensive visiting. So rather than trying to present an argument, I’ll just describe our process and the reasons for it.
With my S2, a current junior who’ll apply for acting programs next fall, we started visiting in the spring of his sophomore year, when–to my surprise–he asked me to take him to see a specific school. We ended up doing a little road trip to see five schools, and it was like the lights came on for him. He loved the Big Name urban school that had first got his attention, but then REALLY loved the tiny, small-town, competitive but less “famous” program that we visited last. And because he’d seen schools and could imagine himself places, the whole thing seemed more real. He decided to attend a summer theater intensive (which he loved and took seriously), has continued to visit and see college productions, and has amped up his preparation in a way that I truly doubt he’d have done if all of his college visits were “virtual.” Also, he’s genuinely attuned to fit rather than reputation and prestige as a guidepost.
I will add that it helps a lot for us that I’m a teacher at S’s school, so our vacation times coincide. That makes it easier to plan visits. Yes, the trips are expensive. We haven’t flown, and we could stay with family for some nights, so that helped defray costs. Last summer, we did as you mention, Tracy, and incorporated visits into our vacation. He’s attending a summer program in the northeast this July, so we will drive up and visit several more schools en route. I expect there will be one or two schools on his final list that we can’t visit in advance, but our goal is to see most of them either before he applies or at an on-site audition.
Tracy, best of luck to your daughter–I’m sure she’ll end up somewhere great!–will be keeping an eye on CC as the results roll in.</p>

3

<p>I personally like the approach of visiting early, because while visiting in the spring my junior year, I immediately crossed some colleges off of my list due to size & campus feel just from walking around. I wanted to make sure I applied to colleges where I liked the feel of the campus and felt wanted, because I’ll be spending at least the next 4 years of my life (& probably tons of money) there. This saved me money from applying & auditioning. Yes I spent money visiting because I live in Arizona, but on my campus tours I found others nearby that I loved so I don’t think it was wasted money at all to visit early</p>

4

<p>Great topic, Tracy, and great response, Times3. I want to clarify something that I don’t think you’re implying or stating in any way, Times, but which often is misunderstood by families new to the audition process. While “demonstrated interest” IS very important and certainly tracked by LAC schools/non-audition programs, such demonstration is NOT a factor for most audition programs, especially the ones with biggest numbers. So don’t think of the visit as a way to show your passion for a school - while schools will appreciate that, it won’t weigh in at all in their decisions, with the nebulous exception of the student happening to be able to meet with a faculty person (not always possible) and establishing a rapport while speaking to them either informally or in a more formal admissions meeting. In this case, if a “click” happens, AND then student then has a great audition later in the year, that bit of personal connection may help. But it’s not about how often you reach out to the school when it’s an audition-based program - and in fact, too much contact can be seen as pushy and obnoxious. Again, just clarifying for those who are new to THIS college process!</p>

<p>On that note - if you DO plan to visit, make sure the student goes into the visit FULLY PREPARED to talk articulately and SPECIFICALLY about his or her passions in the arts. Although you likely won’t be able to have 1-on-1 time with faculty at many schools, you never know when the student might get the chance to talk to someone “important”. Impressions can count then - as I mention above - and it’s VERY important that the STUDENT take the lead in speaking and questioning. Parents can of course ask parent questions, but the student should be the one who broaches all of the artistic questions you have about the program and of course answers all of the questions asked of him/her. As soon as visiting/contacting schools begins, it’s time for the student to take ownership of the process.</p>

5

<p>We decided to go on a five college tour over spring break of my Ds sophmore year. We tried to hit schools that were completely different ex. small, large, urban, well known program and not well known. Like Times3 it did make it more real plus it gave her something to compare to. While all schools or programs are not alike the big school or small school atmosphere can be similar. Those schools that are far away that we cant visit can be compared to a similar style type that we have visited. We plan on waiting for acceptances next year unless we can go to a close one where we don’t have to spend the extra money to stay overnight. I did find summer hard to look at schools other than what it looked like. We were near CCM in the summer and without the students there you couldn’t get a real feel of the program. However you do the feel of the area.</p>

<p>What a good point tracyvp-like you said your grateful for the choices but its tough for a waitlist school especially if its to your favorite school on paper that could put you in a hard dilemna</p>

6

<p>Great advise Coach C my did went to one school and on a whim got to sing for one of the vocal professors and they still remembered her a year later and the song she did.</p>

7

<p>We visited 7 BFA schools Junior year - most over spring break. We tried to visit different types of schools - city, small, larger, conservatory, small town, lac, etc. etc. In this way, she started to hone in on her preferences in a general way. Of those 7 schools, we decided that two of them were not for her, and took them off our list - hence allowing us to round out the list with others that interested her and fit into her list in terms of a balance of competitiveness, etc. - but that we didn’t have time to visit. She auditioned for 10 schools in all. If you can do it, we found the visits very instructive in creating her list.</p>

8

<p>I agree with all that CoachC has said. Very wise advice. :slight_smile: I’ve always believed in the importance of visits prior to auditioning. We started early, and often included a college visit or two in our family vacation plans. During junior year, my H took my actor D on a few college trips where they’d visit three or four over a long weekend. These visits helped her to narrow her list to ones that she truly knew she’d want to attend. She arranged to speak with students, faculty and admissions personnel at each school. At several, she arranged to sit in on classes. Seeing dorms, eating in dining halls, talking to current students, all helped inform her final choices.</p>

<p>While it might seem like a good idea to wait until acceptances are in, for some students this is going to be a difficult task to arrange. Some will not have all their acceptances until April 1st, or even a few days later, and to try to arrange travel plans quickly prior to the May 1st response date may be a challenge, especially knowing how busy spring can be for seniors.</p>

9

<p>CoachC, thank you for highlighting that distinction between LACs and audition programs with respect to visiting. At our high school, we’ve had three well-qualified potential theater majors be wait-listed from Kenyon, Goucher, and Muhlenberg–didn’t visit–and our college counselors confirmed that the lack of a visit was a big part of the decision. It pays to do your homework about the schools! Your point about being prepared to talk about the school on a visit is also crucial. At our impromptu, “let’s just look around” visit to Otterbein last spring, we went into the admissions office to pick up a viewbook and my son was invited to interview and have a tour. He met for a lengthy and incredibly valuable interview with the arts admissions coordinator there, and fortunately was prepared enough to think on his feet, ask useful questions, and talk about his plans and interests. (And Otterbein rose considerably in his estimation!) Again, while not everyone can manage it, a well-planned visit can make all the difference. :)</p>

10

<p>My daughter is currently a freshman MT major. We live in Oregon and began visiting schools spring break of her sophomore year. The visits that were most valuable were the ones when students were on campus so we carefully arranged visits according to college calendars. Whenever we visited a school, we made sure to take a general campus visit and orientation, tried to arrange a meeting with faculty of the MT or theater department, asked to have arranged a shadow of an MT student or class visits, and worked through CC and Facebook to meet with a current student or take them out to a meal. We were very successful in getting full flavors of campuses and programs, and all the visits really changed my daughter’s application list AND avoided any last minute panics upon acceptances. With the current numbers applying and auditioning, there will be a HUGE domino waitlist effect once kids start accepting, and many kids may find themselves falling off a waitlist into acceptance all the way into late May, early June. This is probably going to continue for a number of years, so I believe that it is better to be prepared ahead without having to plan any last minute, expensive look-sees.Speaking to this, anyone planning to visit NYU/Steinhardt, please contact my daughter, KSWAG, here under the NYU Steinhardt thread and she would be more than happy to meet with you and show you around!</p>

11

<p>This is a subject near and dear to my heart, because for our family, it was really important that we make a pre-audition visit if at all possible. There were so many reasons we did this, and also ways to make the trips not overwhelming and really productive. </p>

<p>First, the practicalities: d started working on her “list” when she was a sophomore in h.s. With help from her trusted teachers and lots of research, she figured out what types of programs she thought she wanted…but then saw these gems were located on large, urban campuses and also tiny ones in small areas. She wasn’t sure exactly what type of “place” she wanted to call home for four years, so off we went to see what we could see.</p>

<p>If a college was more or less on the way of a trip (Pittsburgh is between us and grandma – took an extra day to visit Point Park before Thanksgiving one year), it was not a huge deal to plan a visit. Another thing we did was map out schools that were driveable and took spring break to do visits. Finally, we did do some summer visits for the more far-flung schools. The only campus she had not seen before her audition was the University of Oklahoma, and that was due to the fact that she would have to pass callbacks in order to continue, and it was the farthest in distance. When she was invited to campus, we scheduled an extra day outside of the audition day to see the whole campus, and think about what it might mean to live and work there.</p>

<p>The advantages were numerous. This was, as I’ve said before, our opportunity to “audition” the schools – there was no application in yet, no investment in this school other than scouting it out. Making these no-stress visits helped her figure out campus size, location, and the nitty-gritty details such as the floors in the dance studio, how the food service worked, etc. Several schools didn’t pass her “audition” – once she saw them and talked to people, she realized that it wasn’t the place, so we saved the stress and audition fees…and gave a space to another student who would be thrilled to be there!</p>

<p>She did all her auditions on campus, except for the OU prescreen at Unifieds (we then traveled to Norman for the on-campus audition and tour). She felt this was really important, and I agreed. As a very strong dancer, she wanted the opportunity to work in the actual dance space, to see and be seen by a full faculty panel, and to see the schools again. Having been there earlier, she KNEW where the buildings were, we had scoped out the food service and the best bathroom for quick changes, etc. That reduced audition day stress immensely. </p>

<p>Now, as to logistics – with planning, these can be super-productive. The “look at our school!” info talks they do for the whole uni. can be helpful, or useless. We usually attended to get the campus tour and find out what we could about academic scholarships, etc. BUT we always made sure to contact someone in MT, and she had wonderful personal meetings w/heads of departments, faculty members. (Did this make any difference in her acceptances? Probably not. Did it let her ask questions she would not find the answers to on audition day? Absolutely!!) She also was invited to observe classes, take some dance classes, and even had a few voice lessons from prospective teachers. Call/email several weeks ahead of time…the schools want to sell themselves to you and, with warning, can create a great experience. We also tried to see a show…helped her see what sort of work they were doing, and if she felt she fit their talent pool. She also met with honors college faculty, with financial aid folks. She found out some of their nitty-gritty details as well.</p>

<p>In all, over the course of 2 1/2 years, we visited 16 schools. 9 of them “passed” her audition. She was able to talk intelligently to auditors at her audition about each of their schools, and the confidence of knowing her way around was priceless. In the end she had 4 artistic acceptances to choose from. Was it a “waste” to visit schools that, in the end, did not accept her? Heck, no! It helped her know more about herself, what she wants from a school, and just the whole idea of this strange planet called College.</p>

<p>Our thinking was this. A college education can cost a quarter of a million dollars. Would you “buy” something of that price sight unseen? Emotions come into play when there is the pressure to choose (deadlines, housing deposits required NOW…). Another thing to think about is that this will become the student’s home for the next several years. Logistically, can they get where they need to go in the community? What is the campus culture? Will the food service locations and hours work with a crazy schedule? </p>

<p>In the craziness of the audition cycle, with acceptances and rejections rolling in, it’s hard to think past the current moment…but also think about the next 4 years. You are choosing where you are going to live and work. You are choosing a group of people to spend many, many hours with (try to have lunch w/a current student, or find out where they hang out between classes – students are quite honest about what they do and don’t like about a school!). </p>

<p>We made it a priority to do these tours. For some families it will be impossible, from a time, financial or philosophical bent. For us, we could not imagine potentially making the largest financial decision to date with our favorite teen’s “soul” at stake without all the information possible. Besides, we had a blast on those trips.</p>

<p>D is a freshman now, at a school she visited first her junior year. We returned for her audition, and then again when she competed on campus for an academic scholarship and finally for her to be able to personally hand her “yes” to the school and see one more show. Each trip had a different flavor. She made the right decision. Having the information from all the schools she saw only helped solidify this in her mind.</p>

12

<p>We were obviously not as prepared as some…DS visited three of the five schools on the same days he auditioned on campus, and the two other schools were done at unifieds. Of the ones at unifieds, one was a long-shot and too far away to make a visit practical, and one was a school where he had an audition scheduled but was too sick on the day of, so it was a “makeup” so to speak. He visited and spoke with faculty there prior to audition, but did his actual performance at Unifieds.</p>

<p>When the offers were in, he visited two of the contenders a second time to sit in on classes and watch a performance (back to back…that actually worked out great for comparison purpose and helped him be sure of his final decision.)</p>

<p>I totally understand about travel expenses and time off school, but I feel this was ideal…on campus auditions/visits, and a re-visit for final decisions once financial aid packages were in and we knew that we were comparing apples to apples.</p>

<p>Question: If you go in advance and like a school, would you still go back for auditions or go to Unifieds? If you are going to visit anyway, what is the downside of just visiting during your audition time, even if you rule out that school later…?</p>

13

<p>nicksmtmom-we have so far visited 8 schools and we plan on hitting a couple more before the end of this summer. The schools that are closer to us I plan on auditioning at the school even though we have visited them. I am using unifieds for those schools that we just can’t get to because of distance and finances. I think the downside of just visiting during the audition time is that your focus is elsewhere. Depending on if/where the acceptances come from that will determine other follow up visits. My D has a couple clear favorites and if accepted would not need to revisit.</p>

14

<p>I and my d are of the opinion that visiting is a must before even applying. If you don’t have a good “feel” of the school, campus, faculty, etc…you aren’t going to want to spend four years or more there.</p>

<p>That being said, choices change. My d visited Wagner and they wowed her the first time. The current students greeted her and made her feel comfortable, and the location; not quite in NYC but close enough, was what she thought she wanted.</p>

<p>Rider was on her list because one of her friends is currently an MT major there, but being from NJ, I knew she would not be happy with the campus once she saw it. It’s a great school, but she has always said she wanted to live in NYC since she could talk,lol…when she got to Lawrenceville and saw that it looked like where she lived her whole life, that turned her off. She also did not have a really positive audition experience there. </p>

<p>Then she walked in Pace. From the second she walked in, she said she “knew”. And I could tell the way she carried herself, she felt at home. It was her best audition experience, she felt like they really paid attention to her. The current students were all incredible, and all the faculty was super approachable. </p>

<p>When she returned to Wagner for her actual audition, she said she didn’t have the feeling she had the first time. She had a great audition, and she found out yesterday that she is waitlisted there for MT, but accepted into other Performing Arts majors. It still wasn’t enough to make her reconsider. We drove around Staten Island after her audition and she just didn’t feel it like she does being in Manhattan. </p>

<p>There are fantastic programs all over the country. You don’t need to be in NYC to end up there. It depends on what you want from the get go. Some kids aren’t ready for the whole city experience right away and would rather take their time. I know my d is excited, but I also know she is slightly nervous at heading into such a big world. It helps that several of her friends are going to school in NYC, so she feels that connection to home, and I am only an hour away. </p>

<p>So in conclusion, I do think visits make a difference, or at least make the decision process much easier. A college could have a stellar program, but your child might not feel a connection once there, and there is nothing worse than getting there and having regrets, to say nothing of having to transfer and start the whole audition process again. It would be better to have a good fit to begin with, in my opinion.</p>

15

<p>We visited 9 schools junior year before applying. From those, we ruled 4 and eventually did apply to the remaining 5 plus 7 more (not all requiring auditions). She had 5 on campus auditions, 1 at LA unifieds and several at a regional audition, not all of which she ultimately applied to but 2 she did.</p>

<p>If we had it to do all over and if we could have really capitalized on Unifides in Chicago (we could not make any of the unified dates except the very end of LA) I would absolutely visit as many schools as I could FIRST and then do all of the auditions at unifieds. Otherwise the process just drags on way too long. You feel like you are applying to college - forever. It was great to not bother with the 4we ruled out knowing that they just didn’t feel right. 3 of them had killer applications which would not have been worth the effort and when you are still trying to get through school, isn’t something that should be discounted.</p>

16

<p>Devils’ advocate: knowing how “changeable” kids are (examples above) what if in the euphoric “I love this school…” phase before audition season actually begins and hopes are high for all acceptances, you pass on even auditioning at school #3 cuz you don’t “feel” it. Now in the throes of reality, your “love” school passes. School #3 isn’t even an option anymore. Is that a regret?</p>

<p>Just as you were saying she loved Wagner and then was mediocre on it the second time…couldn’t the reverse be true? Why limit your options before you even begin?</p>

<p>That being said, I am a HUGE believer that things turn out the way they are meant to…and as long as we all do what we feel is the best for our student, the rest will fall into place.</p>

17

<p>Oh and one other thing. We were told at one school (by an admissions rep in the theatre department) that although there was no admissions related advantage to auditioning on campus vs. at unifieds, that it could be to our advantage for consideration for scholarships. With that in mind and not yet knowing what an audition looked like, I made a mental note to say, OK this one we should fly to.</p>

<p>In hindsight I just don’t think this was good advice at all. First of all, that school’s audition was so quick and although perfectly professional it was in many ways impersonal. , I seriously doubt it would have made a difference for scholarship consideration and secondly if you don’t actually get into the school, it is irrelevant anyway. Just a heads up in case anyone ever hears that during a visit.</p>

18

<p>That could happen, nicks…no doubt has happened. I still think the kids should check out their schools ahead of time. Of course, our experience is different. Location-wise, in Central NJ, we are close to most of the schools my d had on her list. The only school she had further than an hour away was Pointe Park, and ended up crossing that off because she knew she wanted to be in NYC.</p>

<p>Now it is possible after a semester or two there, she may find she doesn’t like it. One of her friends who always wanted to be in NYC made it through the Fall semester and is home now; she couldn’t handle the whole experience, and went through her money quickly; there are a lot of temptations in the city, with the shows, shopping, food, art, etc…easy to get in over your head. You have to have the maturity to handle all that comes with living in NYC. I think my d is, but I am also a little worried, because her friend was always really responsible and it came as a shock to everyone when she came back. So we are working with her on doing a budget, making sure she knows how much she has for a “fun fund” etc…and she has a campus visit weekend in April; she will stay at the dorms and shadow for classes, and I will be nearby at a hotel. I am going to teach her how to get the subway and bus that weekend so she doesn’t go into this without that experience; she can hail a cab like nobody’s business but that will deplete her fun fund really fast. </p>

<p>But we have to let her try, or she will never know. She definitely has more maturity than I did at her age, and I think she will be ok. :)</p>

19

<p>@nicksmtmom the flip side of your point (a good one) is a mistake we ALMOST would have made. We had some schools that we auditioned at early on that we were to hear from early on. We had it in our head that if she got into one of those two, we would save the expense and SKIP all but 1 of the remaining auditions several of which were at schools we had not yet visited. </p>

<p>Well she did get into one of the two, but not into the exact program that she wanted so we soldiered on. THANKFULLY because along the trail we discovered several schools that we were less interested in (on paper) that then shot to the top. Had we already visited these schools, we would have known not to skip them. Things happen for a reason and our half luck early on proved fortunate.</p>

20

<p>nicks, the one thing we decided from the get go was not to skip any of her auditions. She did have a short list, but she would have still auditioned at all colleges even if she found her dream school. The reason for not skipping was for the audition experience. There’s a big difference between auditioning for the school musical and this process, and each one of her experiences was a lesson; I did see her grow and bloom through the process. It was pretty cool to see the transformation as she gained confidence each time. It was a bonus that she revisited schools she had seen before for her auditions, it definitely made her decision process easier. </p>

<p>And she really did consider this carefully; when she got her waitlist/acceptance letter from Wagner, she asked herself whether she could find that feeling again there, and she said she just didn’t feel it, she really wants Pace. So rather than draw the process out and make someone else on the waitlist lose a possibility, she is letting them know asap that she isn’t accepting.</p>