How easy is it for a shy NMF pre med student to work in a lab at Oklahoma. I understand that extrovert NMFs would easily find recognition and the chance for opportunities to work in labs and the like, but what about a shy NMF student?
Related to this is how large are the required Calculus, Biology, Chemistry, and Physics classed for Med School at Oklahoma?
We are in a dilemma between savings and a place like Rice University known for small classes and individual attention, and like so many, need to decide by May 1.
The honors sections of classes are smaller than the general sections. To see the exact size of the classes, go to [url=<a href=“https://classnav.ou.edu%5DClassnav%5B/url”>https://classnav.ou.edu]Classnav[/url], search by semester and then the general type of class (eg, PHYS = physics).
An introverted student will not have much difficulty working in a lab IME.
I know my D (current freshman) and many of her peers in the NMF program have easily found research opportunities-- the FYRE program is one avenue for research, but just emailing a professor is a good way to get started too. Class sizes have varied-- she took Cal 3 honors (size ~20); but opted for non honors in other courses (Chem class size ~200; though the lab is only 20.) She’s only had one class taught by a grad student (and in fairness, she could have signed up for a section taught by a faculty member.) She finds it easy to meet w/ profs outside of class and does so pretty often. -
The biology, math, chemistry, and physics classes are all offered as honors sections. Honors classes have a maximum size of 22 students, which means many have less than that. I remember when I was in college, my honors organic chemistry class had 6 students. The chemistry class my D is taking is not offered as honors, but the Chem department has a “signature” course that is capped at 48 students. You can see all of the honors classes by googling the OU honors program and drilling down.
I’ve got to believe that shy STEM majors are more the rule than the exception. If your D was joining the drama department then maybe being shy would make it harder to get parts. There are also different degrees of “shyness”. I have a niece who has a hard time looking adults in their eyes when she’s talking to them…seems to focus on her shoelaces. My D is too shy to usually talk with a cashier. It’s saved me plenty of money by telling her she could buy a some food if she’ll go and order it herself 
I have hope for my niece and daughter since I was once voted most shy kid in my HS yearbook and turned out just fine.
We live near Rice University and have been to the campus many times. It is a great school and very selective, so I think your daughter should be congratulated. I crossed it off the list of colleges early because of the finances and the difficulty in getting merit aid. I don’t know your financial situation, but I believe your D has a similar chance to get into med school with good grades/MCAT scores at either university. I think there are just a handful of undergraduate degrees where it is worth spending private school money to get. The other question will be the fit for your D. I tell my wife that it saves us no money to have our D take a scholarship at a school she doesn’t like to only have her drop out and come home after a semester.
@whenhen has a great suggestion about looking at Classnav (Post #1). Just want to add that you need to unclick “Seats still available” at the bottom to see ALL the classes, not just the ones that didn’t fill up.
for reference-- Rice has 3 sections of Chem 1 in the fall with max enrollments of 150 each; and one section of honors Chem 1 with an enrollment of 50. OU’s Chem 1 classes range from 160 to 300… but really, the experience of a lecture of 150 isn’t different from a lecture of 300. Just because a university is smaller (or more expensive) does not mean that the classes will be larger.
Here’s the link to Rice’s class offerings: https://courses.rice.edu/admweb/!SWKSCAT.cat to see the class size click on the “CRN” number in the left hand column.
@heidoscop Both are good school choices in their own way. So the decision should focus more on individual’s specific situation and the critical ordered factors and how they map in each school. few factors could think of since OP mentioned Pre-Med.
Finance: It will cost around $500k. If there is a need for some aid, then OU can give a relief for UG being NMF, but it depends if OP has got aid in Rice or not.
Medicine EC: Rice location offers many options with easy access. If student does not have car or does not know driving, in OU, definitely inconvenient since the OUHSC is OKC (That is a challenge my D is facing now in OU).
Research: You can get opportunity in both schools. But research alone is not the critical factor for MD admission. GPA, MCAT, Medicine related EC, Other EC/Leadership, etc.
Class size & GPA: It is a important factor. Some times, students may prefer to take non Honors classes, especially in the most common core courses like Chem, OChem, BioChem, Bio etc., Some times due to preference towards a teacher or some times student think it may be harder to get A grade in Honors class. But it appears Chem Department has more new faces (either lot of long timers have retired recently) compared to other departments which have many veteran Profs
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More than class size, depends on the luck of which teacher you get for a class. Big size is so common, whether it is a big public U or small U. But teaching is a skill (even if the teacher has Ph.D from the top U) and it may differ from teacher to teacher. Best to weigh where a student can get a higher GPA. But at the same time, what is Plan B if student changes mind or did not get MD and which school is better for Plan B.
It is between full pay at Rice and OU.
Very helpful points, including the cost of Med School and reasons for choosing non-honors classes, both to protect one’s GPA & and when excellent professors teach non-honors sections. I noticed threads where Rice students take classes at U. Of Houston, to protect their GPA.
Our prospective student has no car, but the savings at Oklahoma would allow for one.
It does seem like a person has the best chance for Med School acceptance in the state of residency, at least in our case, OH. I say this, since that would likely be our next step after undergrad, assuming all goes well.
So much to think over. Thank you all!
@heidoscop Wanted to clarify a point. Though agree, that the chances of getting admission for MD is higher in student’s resident state, it does not matter where the student do UG. Related point. Student’s state of residency does not change because of doing UG in a particular state. It depends on many other factors if some one wants to establish a new state for residency. Going to UG is ‘temporary absence’ from the home state and still home state is the residency state for all purposes. Since you mentioned OH, did OP get admission in OSU and if so, does it offer aid and are you not considering OSU?
Thank you. We are not considering OSU. There is not much merit on offer for us there.
I have a different opinion about taking non-honors classes. If your D was accepted to Rice, she is obviously the type of student who should do well in the honors sections. I don’t know about OU, but when I was taking honors classes a couple decades ago, I do not think that there was a forced distribution for our classes. In fact, I think some honors classes I took were easier to get A’s than the non-honors classes that were being used to “weed” out freshman from continuing in engineering/STEM programs.
I do think there is an expectation that the honors classes can be taught at a faster pace and cover more material than a non-honors course, but don’t you think your D would like that better? Small class sizes, professors who want to teach honors students, and a more challenging curriculum sound better to me. I remember in HS before weighted grades became commonplace, there were students who purposely avoided taking AP level classes so that they could compete for valedictorian. I always thought that was fundamentally wrong for the potential valedictorian to avoid calculus, sciences, upper level English/history to pad their grades with low level classes. It seems wrong now for me to think that our next group of doctors/dentists avoided taking harder classes to pad their college GPAs.