Since USC is now more prestigious than UCLA, is UCLA still relevant?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Los Angeles
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<p>Why so bitter SeattleTW? If we are meant to take your posts seriously (and I’m doubting we are), listing prep school attendees as a measure of prestige is silly. It just perpetuates the OLD myth that USC is for students who have money, but not necessarily brains. Those prep schools don’t always graduate the brightest students, but they may be some of the richest, so maybe fewer are getting into UCLA but are getting into USC and are able to pay. An anecdote: out of the top 10% of my 2012 class of 600+, with 20+ National Merit Semi/Finalists, not one is going to USC. They are going to Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Ivies, UCB and… UCLA. Even though several of us received merit scholarships from USC, the only students attending USC are those with lower GPAs/SATs who can afford the tuition. But in the end, most people chose schools because they were the right “fit” - so how can you put down someone else’s choice when it’s based on personal situations?</p>

<p>Thanks for the links TiaWNPP - interesting!</p>

22

<p>“Do the research on where kids at Andover, choate, deerfield, Harvard Westlake, Phillips academy, blah blah blah and you will find dozens of USC matriculates but few at UCLA…”</p>

<p>Oh USC chasing after students with rich parents? Well that’s new.</p>

<p>//sarcasm</p>

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<p>Why can’t we just be friends…</p>

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<p>“Do the research on where kids at Andover, choate, deerfield, Harvard Westlake, Phillips academy, blah blah blah and you will find dozens of USC matriculates but few at UCLA…”</p>

<p>My fianc</p>

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<p>I disagree, TCBH, unless you’re talking about USC having more undergraduate trade majors (=preprofessional programs), which is true. I take pre-professional programs as more regarding the prep majors for students who intend to enter professional graduate programs or to enter professional fields upon graduation. USC students generally aren’t on par with UCLA students planning to enter these fields, including engineering school. UCLA undoubtedly places better for E students within Silicon as well as the various firms and companies within CA, including the ones in aerospace. </p>

<p>But wrt the big three grad programs, UCLA outpaces USC in producing MD’s, attys, and MBA’s, the first two by ~ 3x’s, or ~ 2x’s when adjusted for size of undergraduate student body. </p>

<p>Here are the numbers from the [aamc.org](<a href=“https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/86042/table2.html”>https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/86042/table2.html&lt;/a&gt;) website for those who applied in 2011. You have to figure that USC’s acceptance rate of the 278 applicants wouldn’t be higher than UCLA’s 820.</p>

<p>UCLA outpaces USC in membership within [url= <a href=“http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/demographics.aspx]CalBar[/url”>Attorney Demographics]CalBar[/url</a>]. And I would expect that UCLA’s representation within the other states’ bars would be higher because UCLA generally places better at the top national L-schools.</p>

<p>The average SAT of a USC student is undoubtedly higher than one at UCLA. But USC does superscore and UCLA often does double-count scores, which would bring the bottom (25th percentile) scores down artificially. I don’t know if it double counts solely within the SAT, but it does double count at times within the combination of SAT and ACT because the combination of both scores > 120%, with the bottom figure being the frosh-class size.</p>

<p>Add that USC seeks those with higher scores, often forsaking gpa and class rank. And a lot of the higher scorers USC takes have to retake the test more often to become more marketable to the colleges because they lack a high class rank. This is usually the case for those who attend the top prep schools within CA and without, re USC. </p>

<p>UCLA by state mandate, less so outside of CA, has to take those within the top 10% of their graduating classes, so UCLA has no choice but to reject those from top-notch private schools in CA because they are not admissible because of the extremely high class-rank floor at the U. Essentially, UCLA regards the quality of high school less than USC, which often takes 10% of the graduating classes of top notch private schools, which UCLA obviously cannot do.</p>

<p>Not only does UCLA have more applicants and matriculants to Med, Law, and Management Schools than USC by a good amount, probably offset by more USC grads taking their bus degrees and forsaking grad school in the latter mentioned grad program, the average scores on the respective entry tests to all three, the MCAT, LSAT, and GMAT are higher for UCLA students/grads than their USC counterparts. So UCLA grads make up the difference and surpass USC from the SAT/ACT, to the grad admissions tests within their years at the U. This shows that UCLA is a far rigorous University than USC. </p>

<p>Add that UCLA, as others have stated, is a far greater prep for those who want to enter STEM fields by graduating with a bac degree and following though with a PHD. UCLA is highly ranked in pure numbers within this cohort, but USC is nowhere to be found.</p>

<p>And I wouldn’t discount those who have Business Economics degrees entering the bus field against USC’s Bus Administration majors. USC has around 4,000 bac degrees in bus each year, so theirs is significantly watered down by the large amounts (the 4K includes those with accounting degrees). UCLA’s program is much tougher in which to gain entry after two years, so a lot of these biz majors graduate with honors. This follows through with better offers professionally because they rank higher at graduation.</p>

<p>For the following, without one being a contrast with the other, more off the top of my head along with summation,</p>

<p>Where UCLA is better:</p>

<p>-Higher average class rank; higher mean gpa
-Students score higher on grad admissions tests
-Higher rated by bus-sector companies (if I find this I will link)
-Engineering placement
-Better placement for professional grad schools
-Stem baccalaureate to PHD completions
-Bacs recipients who’ve won Nobel, five or so, more intellectual
-Rigor</p>

<p>Where USC is better:</p>

<p>-Scores higher on SAT
-Regards quality of high school, including those of national repute
-More undergrad trade majors
-Better arts departments including film
-Better school spirit</p>

26

<p>UCLA rocks. i mean come on. trollsville.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I probably should’ve phrased it differently. I did mean trade major-ish fields.</p>

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<p>If you’re rich, but don’t have the grades to get into a real university, then U$C might be your only choice.</p>

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<p>^ This pretty much summed up my view on USC. There are exceptions of course…</p>

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<p>I see the Tommy Trojans are marching over to the UCLA message boards (why do I picture them as mini-me’s sporting tin foil armor with maroon/gold skirts?)</p>

<p>My son, a UCLA graduate and NYU med school graduate (last year) said he never met ANY medical students at NYU who came from USC, but many from UCLA, Cal, and UCSD.</p>

<p>But even if the undergraduate education, experience, neighborhood, and opportunities were the same between the two schools – the price is NOT.</p>

31

<p>"
@ UCLA Dad… Yes it appears that some USC students are trolling this board ( they put a link on the USC board) …however I have been perusing CC for 10 yrs now…and UCLA students are always on the USC Board ( at least for the last 4-5 yrs) talking crap about USC.I understand that your daughter was rejected from USC…so I fully understand your anger towards USC ( however if it was such an abysmal institution why did she bother to apply?) I just wanted to make some comments on your post. First to let you know about me, I have 3 kids that have graduated/ or are in college. All were admitted to UCLA and UCB, the lowest had a UC GPA of 4.25 and a SAT of 2240. My current college student chose USC because it has a much better business program, plus allows his science double major. Last year one of the students in his science class was admitted to Harvard Med School .One of my other children was a graduate of Johns Hopkins and his best friend who is attending JHU med school has a USC graduate in class…so your comments about the purported inferiority of the USC grads riles me…especially coming from a parent. You have no information about the cost of attendance, quality of education in all of the undergraduate departments, etc for USC. If you choose to have your child go the least expensive route( if they had been admitted to USC) that is definitely your prerogative. I have no doubt if any of my children had chosen to attend UCLA or UCB , that they would have received a fine education. They all attended private school…a top 10, JHU and USC…and all of their choices were great for them. The engineer is already earning 150k ( 4 yrs out of school) and the other is not too far behind. But please, don’t denigrate another fine institution such as USC based upon your anecdotal evidence. It reflects poorly upon a fine institution such as UCLA, especially in light of your daughters rejection from USC. Really all of these " my school is better than your school" is so patently childish…especially since we are not talking #1 school vs # 2000 school.</p>

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<p>My god, what a haughty, pedantic post b&bsmom! That level of uppity-ness takes true talent</p>

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<p>USC is far from a fine institution. </p>

<p>Check where U$C is consistently ranked in the world’s best universities. Hint: hundredth.</p>

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<p>Wow…I’m out…this has degraded to a ****ing contest.FYI…look back 10 years from now , after you have graduated, got a job… Perhaps you own a business like I do and are hiring… And you will see how irrelevant your comparisons are. But I realize that my responses are from high school SENIORS and college students…which is why I was responding to UCLA DAD!!!. If this is the typical UCLA student…then perhaps I am glad that none of my kids chose to attend UCLA. So as a final pedantic, uppityish adieu… I hope that one day you all GROWUP!,!</p>

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<p>b&bsmom – you are right. I got baited in and this is a silly discussion. I was here only looking at posts regarding my D’s housing and stumbled on Seatle’s post…my bad.</p>

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<p>One thing though – I certainly have information about the cost of attendance. Even with a presidential scholarship, Undergrad at USC costs more than UC…this is information that is freely available and should be no surprise. Private colleges are very expensive.</p>

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<p>@UCLA Dad… Actually a trustee scholarship is full tuition… But you are absolutely correct that a full pay student at USC pays a significantly greater amount than a full pay UCLA student. I’m sorry if I came across heavy handed… It just bothers me to see all of this petty and irrelevant bickering . There are many fine schools that provide a great education and “fit” for different students as the old saying goes, different strokes for different folks :)</p>

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<p>Yes but a Trustees Scholarship (full ride) is very hard to get. Nobody from my D’s high school got one. She would have, had she been admitted, received the 1/2 off Tuition of the Presidential Scholarship. That would cut the cost of USC Tuition to about 20K, which is still about 9K more expensive than UC Tuition. Add housing and expenses and you get to about 40K for USC and 30K for UC per year.</p>

<p>Incidentally, it seems she had friends who were also highly qualified academically who were initially rejected, but really wanted to go to USC and were admitted on appeal. My D didn’t appeal – she never even mentioned it. I do think USC is probably very good during their application process of knowing who really wants to attend USC (they probably really read the essays, etc) – it makes perfect sense for them to not waste time with those who don’t, even NMFs etc. The highly competitive UCLA/Cal/UCSD campuses process is probably much more numbers driven with both GPAs and test scores. So I’m not really angry at USC – why should I be angry when they made the right decision to offer admissions to kids who really wanted to go there. And though my D got a bit of a sting when she opened that USC rejection letter (instead of the Presidential Scholarship offer) she got a valuable lesson too.</p>

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<p>I do not agree with your underlying premise that USC is more “prestigious” than UCLA. They are essentially equally ranked.</p>

<p>My son applied to UCLA. He didn’t even apply to USC.</p>

<p>UCLA is almost an american icon.</p>

<p>To literally millions worldwide, it is representative of living the dream of Southern California.</p>

<p>Mothers living in shacks in China dream of sending their kids to UCLA.</p>

<p>But USC is in a very sketchy area.</p>

<p>No doubt USC is “better” than UCLA in some fields, but if an out of stater got into both schools, I could certainly see why that person might select UCLA </p>

<p>Now, if you are in state, unless you were super wealthy, in general, you would be crazy to select USC over UCLA. Because of the tuition differential.</p>

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<p>All I can say, b&bsmom, about your post #31 is your fury has blinded you. </p>

<p>You complain about aUCLAdad’s post being anecdotal but you resort the same in telling us about your offspring’s knowing someone who knows about a USC grad at JHU Med as proof of USC being viable in M-school placements. I’m sure it is in more isolated instances, but you have to remember that UCLA (as well as Cal) is one of the top premed schools in the nation. UCLA is by far the greater science school, including engineering, if not in ranking for the latter, certainly in placement. </p>

<p>Most UCLA and UC grads in general would probably prefer to be admitted to one of the five UC Med schools (fairly soon to be six with UCR opening a med school within a few years), even bypassing a spot at JHU Med, with SF, LA, or SD probably being their top choices. But we know, that most UCLA grads would be attending med school outside of CA, similar to aUCLAdad’s son. </p>

<p>You state that USC’s bus program is better than UCLA’s or Cal’s – UCLA doesn’t have an undergrad bus program – but by most rankings, Cal has the higher ranked undergrad bus program. I can understand, though, why your son would have chosen USC’s admittance as frosh status to the program there because Cal’s requires post-soph standing to apply to Haas. Similarly, UCLA’s bus econ program requires the same standing as Cal’s, and neither is easily attainable; in fact, the graduates of Cal’s and UCLA"s programs usually have honors status because the standards of entry are so high.</p>

<p>Btw, be haughty all you want on this board; it is certainly within your right, and be as frequent here as you wish. But at the same time, expect to be debated, and proven wrong every time. ;)</p>