<p>@UclaColumbia Your statements are way too generalized. I don’t know the background of your professor, but just because the professor’s “handful” of students he interviews didn’t prepare a well cover letter, doesn’t define usc. Even schools like Harvard would have some students who slip up. </p>
<p>Also, the thing about departments putting pressure on professors is actually more common than you think in private schools. For one, schools like the Ivy’s AND Stanford also do this. Which, in my opinion, makes sense in accordance to the idea of private schools “care” about you. Is it fair to public schools? I guess not, but it is what it is.</p>
<p>@Patryck – Both schools are good. I think the pre-med curriculum at UCLA might be ranked better, but it’s really a matter of how well you excel in the weed-out courses and research opportunities, and do on the MCAT etc. </p>
<p>But I want to warn you about assuming you will get a National Merit Scholarship from USC, only because my daughter went through it this year. She is a National Merit Finalist and applied to USC and was expecting the Presidential Scholarship and hoping for a Trustees Scholarship (full ride). Well to cut the story short, she was not admitted to USC. My point is you wont get a scholarship unless you are admitted, and its not a guarantee. If you want to go to USC I suggest you make it very clear on your essays, and application that you really REALLY want to go there, etc…and get good recommendations and highlight things other than just academics. Your PSAT, and SAT and GPA are not enough to get you admitted. Of course, its also no piece of cake getting admitted to UCLA or Cal. Kids are rejected from one or the other all the time.</p>
<p>Another point I’d make is that even with a Presidential scholarship, which gives you a 50% tuition cut, the cost of USC is still about 9K per year more than a UC because USC tuition is about $40K and UC Tuition is about 11K right now. Its possible you can get grants or other need based aid, but that is not guaranteed and depends on your FAFSA etc. WHen a college says they guarantee you wont be turned down for aid due to ability to pay – they are the ones who decide what your parents can or cannot pay. I know from my own experience with my daughter that UCLA was less expensive even with 50% off tuition at USC. She was also admitted to Scripps college, which she really liked, but they offered her zero merit based aid – and thus that would have cost me 60K/yr. Needless to say, UCLA is where she is going and its a great school as well!</p>
<p>Something to consider about rankings: they are completely useless unless you read the methodology. That’s why when I posted my world rankings I explained how they got to those conclusions. Methodology even differs within a single website. For example, USNWR ranks undergrad institutions based on some legitimate variables and some questionable variables. Among the questionable variables. Alumni giving - interpretable as more evidence that USC is by the rich and for the rich rather than saying anything about the quality of education. Ratings by high school counselors - maybe some hs counselors know their stuff but mine were completely useless and I bet many are (this variable has the highest weight). Retention rates - impossible to tell if this has to do with support for students or low rigor of education… biased toward private schools who have grade inflation. Class size - also biased toward private schools. FACULTY SALARY - what this has to do with quality of undergrad education, I have absolutely no idea. Faculty salary makes up a whopping 20% of the weight for these rankings.</p>
<p>In contrast, USNWR ranks PhD programs based on peer assessment (other professors). Much more trustworthy.</p>
<p>I do have to add though that people make the financial situation at USC a lot bigger of a deal than it should be. I got into USC and it would have been cheaper for me to go there than UCLA (although, that is only because I have connections. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing about USC, your judgement.) Actually… maybe the money is a big deal if the only way you can get aid is by having connections, haha idk. Anyway, I still decided to go to UCLA because I toured USC’s campus and just did not like the vibe.</p>
<p>I have to agree with TiaWNPP – I had noticed exactly the same thing when I looked at USC’s ranking vs. UCLA’s ranking in USN&WR – USC’s ranking is clearly bolstered by money (donations, salary, etc.) rather than by results, peer assessment, etc. (as is the case with many private universities as Tia also points out). </p>
<p>It is difficult to find any evidence that USC is more prestigious than UCLA.</p>
<p>Let’s get real. Stanford’s only peer academically is Caltech. I don’t think anyone seriously believes that USC is the second best school in California.</p>
<p>If the rankings are generous, it would probably be something like</p>
<p>Stanford/Caltech
Berkeley
UCLA/USC</p>
<p>The highest USC would be able to go is the 4th spot with UCLA, as opposed to the 5th spot.</p>
<p>Always good for a laugh Seattle. Are there other “indicia” in this new pecking order? Are Pomona, Harvey Mudd and CKM too “scientistic” as well or are they just too infinitesimal to be counted as peckers by the masterful? What was your major Seattle, you agent provocateur?</p>
<p>The point of this thread is one of managing expectations and perceptions. Several years ago, over a decade in fact, the Los Angeles Times ran a Calendar cover article about how USC’s entering class had higher SAT scores and grades than those entering UCLA. That’s ancient history but a few years later USC eclipsed Cal in those critical metrics. More recently, a few years ago, the Daily Bruin, hardly a bastion of USC fans, ran a piece warning UCLA about USC’s imminent ascent in the only credible ranking, the USN&WR. Even then, the writer was stating the obvious while attempting to assuage his classmates’ collective anger and fear. Now that USC has entered the top two dozen schools in the US ranking, its eyes are focused not on UCLA, but rather Cal, Emory, Rice and others. In short, UCLA was yesterday’s battle.</p>
<p>Seatle, tell the USC admissions to stop superscoring the SAT and then well see who has the higher SATs? and I believe USC has the lower GPA overall, just open up two tabs showing the freshmen profile of UCLA and USC, and it is obvious. Stop spewing nonsense, and bring credible sources.</p>
<p>It’s kinda funny that U$C’s ranking only gets 1 spot above UCLA when UC’s budget cut hurts UCLA (and other UCs) the most… UCLA had been consistently ranked above U$C before the state budget cut started to hurt UCLA.</p>
<p>The schools are equal IMHO… But Kaizrea the GPA comparisons are not equivalent…the UC’s do there own GPA ( the UC GPA), freshman year is excluded, USC includes freshman year…so some may have had a poor freshman year and have a lower USC GPA, or vice versa…the point is that the GPA argument is also not a valid comparison- it is not apples to apples… Also the budget cuts have just begun to have their impacts felt, and the rankings run a few years behind. If the cuts result in a reduced ranking( which is yet to be seen) that will not be shown for the next few years.</p>
<p>While UCLA does have a higher GPA average. It is not a better indicator of academic strength of the student body. If this was true, then UCLA and most of the UCs would have a smarter student body than most of the Ivies, which is again not true. I am sorry Bruins, but UCLA and UCSB are not greater than Princeton. </p>
<p>UCLA Average GPA 4.25
UCSB Average GPA 3.92
Princeton Average GPA 3.89</p>
<p>University of California, Los Angeles Overview - CollegeData College Profile
University of California, Santa Barbara Overview - CollegeData College Profile
Princeton University Overview - CollegeData</p>
<p>You just don’t get it do you? There is NO way of saying which school is better because USC and UCLA aren’t miles apart in terms of quality. All we can do is give subjective opinions which don’t mean ****.</p>
<p>Yes, you’re right, GPA alone is not a perfect indicator of academic success but neither is the SAT. Together they might give a more accurate picture but they are still not perfect.</p>
<p>What might be an indicator of academic success, or intelligence for that matter, is that you’re 2 years out of USC and you still have the reasoning skills and naivete of a high school senior. (And yes I’m aware that I was a high school senior one year ago… which just proves how slowly you’ve grown at USC). </p>
<p>Trying to justify that USC is better by listing meaningless facts deserves mudslinging. Like I said, all we have is SUBJECTIVE opinion and I stated my opinion. If that makes me immature, that’s fine by me. By Modernman’s standards, I have another 5-6 years to stay just as immature as I am now…</p>
<p>Tightend, underachiever resorts to personal attacks instead of participating in a civil debate, because he admitingly admits that he is immature. Further no one has disputed or addressed of the arguements. I would love for someone to bing up valid counter arguments followed up with sources, instead of personal opinion.</p>
<p>1) 2012 (preliminary) UW GPA for admitted UCLA undergrads is 3.88. </p>
<p>2) Does this mean anything? Not really. Because USC and UCLA are good schoolsl and if you are lucky enough to get into one and can afford it without becoming burried in permanent debt before you even go to grad school…it’s great.</p>
<p>3) You are the same person who had the nerve to say “-- Although, the recent incident near Exposition Park and outside USC was a true tragedy. But, who committed the crime? A BRUIN! Let’s not forgot the tragedy committed by a UCLA student, on campus.” Since you are so concerned with not having personal attacks – let me just say you were way out of line. What was your point with that statement? Are you saying its an impersonal fact that UCLA students murder Trojans? The hard working kids (of both schools) who are on these boards and are interested in campus life, academics, finances, etc — don’t need this kind of “thread” and they don’t need this kind of nonsense from you or seattle. What are you trying to prove?</p>