DD23 picking her senior year classes and does not want to take a other science. She took earth science honors 8th grade, Biology Honors 9th grade, chemistry 10th grade and currently taking APES in 11th grade. She is in Science National Honor society. Her science choice would be Physics or AP Physics in 12th grade and she wants to take neither. She feels she has her 4 recommended sciences on her transcript already and would rather try something new —specifically AP computer science P and a cool business elective ( think shark tank) rather than another lab science. Her other classes are AP Lit AP Calc AB, AP Spanish and an independent research class (4th year) so it’s a decently rigorous schedule without Physics ( she won’t take AP Physics and our school does not offer honors for some reason).
She does not plan on being a STEM major. Her GC feels strongly she should take physics and we ( her parents) think she should do what interests her instead.
She will be applying to T20-T50 schools and has a Target chance of being accepted.
I am asking will these selective colleges really not take her just because she didn’t take Physics and followed what interested her instead? Sad world that I even have to ask this question.
I don’t believe her 8th grade science is going to count for college admissions. The standard expectation is one year each of biology, chemistry, and physics. Then if you are are aiming for top schools you need a science AP. That said, will not having physics keep her out? Hard to say. Just make sure she has safeties and doesn’t have for heart set on a reach school.
My personal opinion is that top colleges want to see that STEM students are successful in AP humanities (APUSH, AP Lit/Lang) and that humanities majors are successful in AP STEM (AP Calc, AP Bio/Chem/Physics).
Look at the recommended courses for some of the schools that she is interested in. Many, if not all, recommend 4 years of high school science. Schools generally look at Algebra, Geometry and foreign language taken junior high but not sciences.
I don’t think her 8th grade science is going to count for anything. I also believe colleges really like seeing physics. That being said, at least she’s replacing science with AP Computer Science P and she’s doing rigorous math. If she’s going to hate every minute of physics, then I would consider skipping it and hoping for the best.
Because you said she is aiming for T20-50, she absolutely needs physics, as her school offers it, that level of college expects it when HS offers it, and her counselor said to take it. You need to have an honest conversation with the counselor on whether the majority of kids who get in to T20-50 schools without interest in STEM take the AP level. My guess is the STEM kids do–but you need to find out if it is expected from non-stem aiming that high. For many HS, kids aiming for that level of school are encouraged to take bio, chem, physics and one of those at the AP level for the 4th year, though APES can be sufficient depending what the school offers and what is typical T20-50 matriculants at that high school. Earth science doesn’t count.
Thanks all who responded. Please note that should mention that her her 8th grade earth science class is considered a high school class in our state so it will appear on her transcript. I hear you all that science is not complete without physics.
The colleges she is looking requires her only one core science class but can be an “easier” elective as a liberal arts or business major so physics is not a prerequisite.
I just hate that she has to give up a class that sounds so much more enjoyable to her so she can have regular physics on her transcript. I have always told her to challenge herself but focus on what she likes and good things will follow and she is taking my advice. I just don’t want it to be the only reason she does not get into a preferred school.
We made that call: one of the collegekids chose to take an elective senior year instead of an AP science. It was a famous course at the school, and the teacher was one of those ‘don’t miss’ teachers. Her GC reminded her that her ED school was explicit about looking for rigor in the Grade 12 courseload, and that the elective was neither honors nor AP. We said that it was completely her decision, but you only get one HS, and she could take the science in college but she couldn’t ever have that teacher / class, and that if that was what made the accept/reject decision for that college it probably wasn’t the school for her anyway. She took the elective- and got deferred ED from what the GC had estimated to be a match school (T20-T50, match estimate based on her stats/app & the school history).
We found out later that the actual reason for the deferral was a huge (unexpected & unusual) spike in comparable applications from our metro area. Being deferred was traumatic, but not fatal (obviously!). She was ultimately accepted RD, and a dean I spoke to after she was enrolled said that they would not have rejected her solely because of that one course selection.
D20 took HS Earth Science in 8th grade (which showed up on her transcript) and then took Bio, Chem and Physics. Senior year, students usually take an AP version of a science they took already. She chose to double up on AP classes from the social studies department knowing she was looking at humanities majors.
I see 2 issues with your plan. One, APES is not considered a core science class by many “good” schools and would work as more of an elective than a true lab science. The second, is your D is looking to substitute in a “fun” elective as opposed to an “academic” one. While that might be more appealing to her, her application is going to be viewed alongside those from applicants who made different choices (maybe even from her current high school). You want her to have the best application she can, so AOs will keep her in the “yes” pile instead of giving them reasons to move her into the “no” pile.
D tried AP Bio this year for rigor but had to drop because she was struggling. She decided on APES and it’s the one science she actually enjoys learning. Her electives have always been academic. She is taking a rigorous(behavioral) research elective all 4 years and has been published and won awards for her projects. To complement this class she took AP Psych in 10th and AP Stat in 11th snd started a mental health awareness club in her school. She don’t know (yet)if her major will be Pysch but it’s definitely a story to tell on her application. Senior year she will add AP comp science P
She is a math, English, foreign language kid (AP track). Social studies is honors because she doesn’t love it. Science is her least favorite subject. She has her own business so a shark tank class is really interesting to her vs physics.
I appreciate everyone’s advice and on paper she should take physics. But it just doesn’t feels right for her. Struggling with this as you can see…
normally I would say take Physics- it’s expected. but your kid has packaged herself well with the AP psych, stats, and behavioral research, and that club she started. so if she markets herself as a pre-behavioral science person, I think most schools will look past the lack of physics. as long as she clearly has maintained a rigorous academic schedule. I think her plan is pretty good.
one thing to keep in mind though is career and major goals- make sure they won’t require physics. if they might, then I would rather see her have some background in it from high school before she has to tackle it in college.
Some things to consider. What would her chances be to make a T20/T50 schools even with Physics? What would it be without? Does she have choices she would be happy with outside of those schools?
Neither of my kids took Physics and both were accepted to T20/T50 school(s). However, they did take Earth Science, Chem, AP Chem, Bio, and AP Bio. One also took APES. And mine are sort of in STEM. One was a math/econ major. The other is Intelligence Analysis but also geographic science. But neither of them liked sciences much.
If D were mine, I’d suggest that she find a back-up school that she’s happy with just in case the top school doesn’t work out. (It might not even if she takes physics!) And then, I suggest she take what she likes. A slightly different situation, but I let elder S skip math senior year in lieu of AP macro/micro. he would have lost his valedictorian status if he took another math class and that was more important to him. (he also finished calc in 8th grade and was taking classes at the local uni that didn’t count toward HS GPA, so again a slightly different situation.)
Let her skip the senior year science! Her senior year schedule certainly doesn’t sound like a blow off year. Neither of my kids took a science their senior year and they were accepted to reach schools including USC (California not SC), NYU and the University of Miami (Florida).
Her chances will be better with another science — if not physics, AP chem or bio. Even with her 8th grade science on the transcript, it’s unlikely that colleges will count it but you could call and ask.
With holistic reviews, it’s hard to pinpoint one thing that kept an applicant from being admitted so her acceptances don’t rest solely on this decision.
I have a 2022, though, and I can tell you that decisions so far this year have been brutal. My daughter has done well, but she applied to schools with acceptance rates around 50%, so a bit easier than what your daughter wants. I have heard of students with stellar stats and very high rigor be deferred and denied at the schools your daughter is targeting. Unless she has safeties where she would be happy, I would not give them this reason be more inclined to deny her.
As far as you feeling that taking physics or a science senior year is a new thing, it really isn’t. Traditionally, it has been expected that a well-rounded education include chem, bio, and physics. I went to a T25 30 years ago (from a small, rural high school) and I had physical science, bio, 2 years of chem, and physics…and I applied as a humanities major. Not every kid at our high school did that, but the college-bound ones did.
One more thought…your child’s guidance counselor is the person who will be judging the rigor of your child’s schedule AND writing one of the LORs. For the top schools, you want the counselor to say that your child took the most rigorous schedule available to them, and write a positive LOR. Make sure that if your child doesn’t take physics, that those two things aren’t negatively impacted.
Will your child second guess themselves if they skip physics and don’t see a T50 admission? Is it worth the risk to them skipping a core class? For some students the answer is resoundingly “yes”. If that’s your kid, then don’t worry about it. If it’s not your kid, listen to the GC.
PS. My child also had a bunch of HS courses in 8th grade on her transcript. They were not included in GPA calculations and many college admissions counselors said they didn’t look at 8th grade regardless of the classes (mostly because they just help students enter higher level classes in 9th). Earth science is not considered a core science for college.
Does she have another factor that will shape her application? My S21 did not take physics and was accepted to a T50 college but had a arts supplement. I am a huge believer in HS kids taking courses that excite and motivate them, but if T50 is her goal and she does not have a “spike” in her application it would be hard to discount the guidance counselor’s advice. They have specific experience to your school.
I’m of two minds. My S22 is taking Honors Physics this year instead of APES upon the recommendation of his GC. Given the schools he applied to (mostly T50-T75), and the fact that he isn’t a STEM kid, I wouldn’t do this again. The class is difficult and he doesn’t enjoy it; and as he isn’t targeting ultra selective schools it probably wasn’t necessary. As long as your daughter has schools at every level level of selectivity that she would be happy attending I’d say go with what interests her - if she has her heart set on a top 50 she should take the Physics (of course, this doesn’t assure admission).
Data point of one, but I had no bio, and got into several T20’s.
If the rest of the application is strong enough, and the lack of physics does not result in the GC downgrading the rigor assessment, I would be inclined to forgo physics.
Whether she should replace it with another science is a separate question. If any of her colleges “suggest” 4 years of science, she might want to rethink, because it is highly highly unlikely that 8th grade will “count.”
Also the comment regarding how the counselor will report the rigor of her curriculum to the colleges is on point. The counselors are expected (required?) to inform the colleges as to whether a particular student’s curriculum is most rigorous/very rigorous etc (I think there are four categories on their portion of the common app). So as mentioned above, a good idea to check in with them as to how they will rate the rigor your daughters curriculum — and if it will matter to the colleges she is targeting.