Reskimmed the thread and saw the history with AP Bio. For T50 schools, would interest in psychology mean the AOs are looking for AP Bio if it’s available at the school? If anyone knows the answer to this (and it’s “yes”) then is retrying AP Bio another possibility to consider? I think of bio as quite connected to psych, but that might be my bias coming from the medical field. It’s good she has the AP Stats class done - also quite connected to psych.
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Substituting AP bio doesn’t change that this student has never taken a physics course at any level.
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Agree, and for my kid I insisted on physics, but this isn’t the first time I’ve heard of top students trying to skirt around high school physics. I don’t know how colleges look at it (defer to you and others on that topic) but at my kid’s school, there are definitely high-achieving kids who don’t bother with physics. Again, I told my kid that physics was non-negotiable because I think it’s too important. I was just raising the idea that missing AP bio might be another “hole” to consider in a psych application to a top school.
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The vast majority of universities do not admit by major, and even for those that do, I highly doubt in the 10 minutes an AO spends on an application, they will pick apart the course selection to that degree.
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My daughter’s best friend was admitted to UVA without taking physics. She is a bio major
And took Ap Bio and Ap chem instead. I don’t think physics is must.
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At a William and Mary info session, the presenter specifically said they were expecting kids to have taken Physics.
I am with you: support her following her interests. We don’t know a lot about your daughter but one of mine got into one of the most selective schools without physics (or calculus), though she had a strong EC commitment in the arts.
I honestly think that following her interests is a good model going forward. I used to read a lot about external versus internal motivators back when I was raising kids. Grades and admissions are external motivators, and her genuine interest in CS, environmental science and business are internal motivators and therefore more fulfilling.
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The common thread in all college info sessions we attended was the importance of academic rigor, particularly in the context of what is available to the student.
The school may say 3 years of something is required bc they don’t want a student who did not have the option of a 4th year to walk alway. That is not to say that a kid who has several options of hard sciences available to them is not expect to take them.
In our case we thought AP Stats would be more useful for a Humanities focused student who had already take Honors Bio/Chem/Physics and the GC advised very strongly against it bc it was not a Science.
One last thing to add is that anyone who has been involved in the last couple of college cycles and this one in particular will tell you that competition for T20-T50 schools is extreme. Tippy top kids are getting squeezed out of T20 for various reasons and trickling down to the next level. Stats from previous cycles don’t apply anymore.
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BUT she took AP Bio and AP Chem. This is not nearly the rigor of the OPs science transcript.
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I guess I am more in the “take what you like” camp and if a college denies admission based on that, it wasn’t the school for my kid.
I am always astonished by the number of people here who indicate certain AP classes are not rigorous enough to get into top schools. I mean, they are college level classes! And are the admissions offices going to assume that all decisions were based on trying to avoid work rather than pursuing genuine interests or just because of high school scheduling conflicts?
Seems like an AP class is an AP class to me at the end of the day, even if some are considered harder.
My D22 has received only acceptances and no deferrals or rejections yet, but has not heard back from the highest-ranked schools she applied to yet, either. So I don’t know how her course selection will weigh in, but she will have taken 15 APs by graduation.
My D22 loves math, but really does not enjoy science. She also does not want to take any AP class offered as an independent study only and not a traditional class.
So for science in high school, she took Honors Biochemistry, AP Bio, APES, and now AP Physics 1. (So, yes, she’s taking physics, but never did AP Chem.) For math, she completed AP Calc BC last year and didn’t want to do Multivar Calc as independent study, so her only math this year is “easy” AP Statistics (although people called it “sadistics” back when I was in school). She’s also a Peer Tutor for a calc class.
In a few months, I plan to post a results thread about all of her yeses and nos here. Then you will have at least one more real- world example to consider in case it influences you to make any changes heading into next year.
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Take physics. She and you will second guess your decision not to do so if she is rejected at her dream school. At least she wants to be able to say she did all she could to get in.
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Not to go OT, but that’s debatable. Some AP’s replicate college courses more or less, e.g. calc. Others don’t come close, e.g. APHG. Some might be offered by a college but are more of the Physics for Poets variety, e.g. APES.
Nonetheless, every AP class is an Advanced Placement course with an associated AP Exam administered by College Board and designed to earn college credits.
To me, that makes them college-level courses, even if not those with the reputation for being most difficult.
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In general HS is a place where students are expected to get a well rounded education before they start to specialize in college. Many colleges do like to see students take a sequence that includes bio, chem, and physics. I think it would be a positive if your D takes physics (no need for AP) in HS.
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Many colleges would disagree that all ap courses are collegiate level
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Let’s get back to the OPs question.
This is not the place to continue a discussion on the rigor of AP classes v college classes.
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What is a “target chance”?
Selective colleges are… selective. They have many more applicants than spaces. They are academic institutions and extracurriculars rarely make up for lower grades or a less rigorous course load. Exceptions, which have been noted above, include those who are in the arts, but that doesn’t sound like your daughter.
It sounds like your daughter has had many opportunities to follow her interests outside of school. That’s great! Make sure that the academic portion of her application is equally as strong.
It likely won’t be the only reason but it might be one of the reasons.
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Another data point - D22 was just admitted to UVa OOS without physics OR chemistry of any kind. Granted, she had several other things in her favor: strong stats (4.0/35/12 APs), legacy status, unusual EC that fit with her intended humanities major, and the explanation that COVID blew up her junior schedule due to limited virtual classes, making it effectively impossible to take AP Chem as a junior and stay on track with AP humanities at the same time. But she could’ve reworked her senior schedule to fit AP Physics, and she chose to do AP Music Theory instead b/c she loves music theory and has no interest in physics, or really any kind of natural science.
I do agree with others that Physics would strengthen the application for top schools, but I might advise my kid in this situation to follow what you like and let the chips fall; for example, going to a state flagship business school and knocking it out of the park could set you up for a top-tier MBA, which would be a great path that sounds more in keeping with her interests (and wouldn’t require physics).
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Right, but your kid is the exception in that they had a “spike” and a hook of legacy. OP has not stated that their kid has either so they should probably follow the guidance counselor’s advice or know there is an increased chance of not getting into T50 (which btw is just fine too).
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My S23 doesn’t want to take Physics senior year either but he’s going to anyway (Honors not AP). He’s applying to T20 schools (and other in T50). He still may not get accepted to his favorites but it definitely maximizes his chances. Your D does have Comp Sci which should count as a science but doesn’t. 8th grade won’t count regardless of what your state does on transcripts. I’d take Physics and either ditch Comp Sci or shark tank.
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