<p>I have a really strong desire to go to grad school for music composition or musicology (possibly conducting, but not currently my top choice) after I finish my undergrad. However, I do not come from a well-off family, nor do I have good finances myself. I have seen a lot of stuff on the internet about skipping the master's degree and going on to a Doctorate's program after undergrad if you know you want the doctorate's anyways. Apparently (and I've seen this on the school websites I've looked at) most Doctorate's programs have a full tuition wavier and living/teaching stipend. This idea interests me, as I probably won't have the funds for a master's straight out of college (unless I get good scholarships). I was wondering if I can just apply to Doctorate's programs at any school or only at schools which state that they allow students to do so? Also, how much harder will it be to get into a doctoral program vs a master's program straight out of college?</p>
<p>Normally schools will specify on their websites what the prerequisite degree is for their doctoral programs. </p>
<p>It is definitely more difficult to get into a doctoral program than a master’s program. There are master’s programs that accept students of rather average ability, but almost all doctoral programs require students that are well above average in their chosen discipline. </p>
<p>To go straight from a Bachelor’s degree into a PhD program, you need to demonstrate exceptional talent in your undergrad classes and in the body of work you have produced as a composer, conductor or musicologist. I think that the three fields you have mentioned (composition, musicology, and conducting) are particularly selective. Most schools take very few students in these fields. Often the intake for graduate composition or conducting students is about one to three students per year. Musicology intakes are sometimes somewhat higher, but because a huge percentage of music students are very talented academically, the competition is quite fierce.</p>
<p>You will probably need to narrow your field of interest if you are to be competitive for acceptance to a doctoral program straight out of a bachelor’s degree. Are you majoring in composition? or musicology? or conducting? Normally a person considering a doctoral degree has a more focused passion than what is sounds like you have, given that you are considering three quite different fields. </p>
<p>For musicology, you should have developed excellent research and writing skills–I believe most programs will want evidence of this in the form of some serious essays/papers that are publishable or at least near-publishable quality. </p>
<p>For conducting, you would need to have extensive experience conducting prior to entering a doctoral program–it would be highly unusual for someone to have this if they were 22 and straight out of a bachelor’s program. The school will want video of your conducting substantial and difficult works in front of ensembles that play at a minimum of college-level.</p>
<p>For composition, you really need to be special and have a mature and individual voice in your compositions, as well as a sure technique and well-developed sense of style. It is difficult enough to get into a good bachelor’s program in composition.</p>
<p>^There’s not much wisdom to add to vdad’s great post, except that my son has been debating these types of issues. I am not optimistic that a composer would be prepared to “skip” masters level work in composition unless you are presently in an unbelievably tippy top program and exceeding all standards – but could be wrong.</p>
<p>I will say that one outlier option, depending on your intent around composition, would be to seek a truly TERMINAL Masters – which is available in a very limited way to some aspects of composition – eg. UC Irvines Integrated Inter-active Arts (Composition) or some sound design and electronic composition programs. Or if you’re a composer interested in working in the film industry, a MFA in film production (sound emphasis). Of course, you would need to have a very well developed portfolio to be accepted without a film undergrad, and this would only be of interest to you if you’re highly interested and talented in those areas. Just fodder for thought.</p>
<p>What is it you’re looking for in grad/post doc work, exactly. Tenure-track teaching?</p>
<p>Thanks! Both of your replies were informative and helpful. </p>
<p>Violindad, the reason I have not narrowed my interest yet is that I just finished my Freshman year of college. I am taking my conducting course this Fall, and simply think I may really like it, but not positive (as hits will be my first exposure to conducting). The other reason I haven’t narrowed my focus yet is that I LOVE learning anything about music, and so far I have done pretty well at all of my music courses (I have gotten all A-'s or A’s in every music course, ensemble, or lessons i have taken so far except for one B in a course which is considered by most students to be the hardest course any music major will take.) So it’s hard for me to decide what I like best when I’m pretty much obsessed with anything music and do fairly well at anything music. I’m hoping to find my real interest this year since I’m starting my composition lessons, taking basic conducting, and Music History 1. </p>
<p>Kmcmom13, I might want to teach eventually, but, right now, I don’t necessarily want to. I simply love learning about music THAT much. I more think, as competitive as it is, I want to enter the professional field of music (in which case I’ve been told that graduate degrees help because of the highly competitive nature of the field.)</p>
<p>I think (but I’m not sure) that for Ph.D. degrees it would be pretty common to skip the Master’s, which I think would be pretty standard in musicology and possible in composition, but less likely in conducting. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think conducting programs tend to be DMA programs, which usually necessitate a Master’s (and the same would go for a DMA in composition). </p>
<p>From what I’ve seen, it looks like musicology programs tend to function a lot like non-music humanities Ph.D. programs, with fellowships and professors-of-interest and the like (and are offered at non-applied-focused schools like UChicago, the Ivies, Berkeley, etc.). Composition seems to go pretty equally by the music school and music department route.</p>
<p>Oh, and if you’re talking about the “professional field of music” in terms of everything other than teaching, then advanced degrees won’t get you a thing.</p>
<p>Don’t know about music, but many PhD programs “give” you a master’s degree at the point where you complete certain requirements, usually two years of study and some sort of qualifying exams.</p>
<p>Just to chime in, if music is anything like non music Phd’s, as Stradmom said, you generally get a masters as part of the PHd program, the coursework of the masters is part of the coursework for a PHd (obviously if you have a masters then go for a PHd, you will already have some requirements fulfilled:). I have several friends who were in full time PHd programs who didn’t finish, but had enough work done to come out with their masters degree.</p>
<p>From what I am led to believe, getting into PHd programs is difficult in any of the areas of music,there just aren’t a lot of slots open and they basically have a choice among a lot of students. The reason these programs are usually tuition reduced or free is that students in the doctoral programs usually end up teaching, if the non music PHd track holds, a lot of undergraduate courses (especially low level ones), and things like labs, lab lectures and the like are taught by grad students, and grad students often act as TA’s for classes, grading tests and so forth. The free tuition and stipend is in effect ‘payment’ for teaching. </p>
<p>The best way to learn about these things is probably to look at the school’s website to see what they have to say, and then follow that up with e-mails with any questions you may have, I am sure they can answer questions like “If I want to go from my undergraduate degree, studying X, is it possible to go right from there into your PHd program? If not, what is the usual track”.</p>
<p>I think it may be kind of early for you to worry about this, honestly. You just finished your freshman year and are enjoying your music classes, so I think you should just continue to explore and enjoy. You are fortunate to be majoring in a subject you both love and excel at!</p>
<p>Just to clarify a few things: have you done any composing? You say that you are going to begin composition lessons: is this the first time you have studied with a teacher? Have you done any summer programs? Have you had your music played by some good musicians? Did you submit a portfolio for your current school? Sorry for all the questions!</p>
<p>You are also just beginning conducting, and have had a taste of musicology. You have three more undergrad years to explore all this. Lots of things can happen in three years. You may blossom in one area, or find that you really love one area, who knows. But I wouldn’t pressure yourself to decide, just keep a broad perspective and learn all you can, unless, say, composition just takes over and you can think of nothing else.</p>
<p>There are a few master’s programs that don’t cost or have low cost (Curtis, Yale, maybe others). There are also diploma programs: don’t know if you would be interested in those.</p>
<p>Going from undergrad to a PhD program would seem to be a huge commitment. From my experience, many students take some time between undergrad and grad (unless unusually accomplished, which could be you) to write music, have it played, or develop in whatever interest/field is theirs, before grad school. </p>
<p>You might also want to consider some internships in the summer or during the year. There are internship positions for orchestras, community outreach, and other non-profits, that might present you with more options to pursue, at least to support yourself in the future while you get established as an artist. </p>
<p>Or look into summer programs that offer financial aid: many do. Summer programs for composition provide opportunities to study with great teachers, and also to have music played by excellent musicians.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>musicmajor2, speak with your teachers and advisors at your current school. Why do you want a doctorate?</p>
<p>Compmom,
I have not had a lot of experience with composition yet, but plan on working hard to make up for it. I would love to be involved in internships and composition programs outside of my school, but, as I do not have my own car and am EXTREMELY limited financially, there is little opportunity for such things. So, I am wondering if you know of any summer Programs like you mentioned which offer good financial aid? All of the Summer programs I find information about seem to be either for high school students or they’re for students already enrolled at the school which the program is run through (an therefore expensive for other students).</p>
<p>There are many programs for college students. Chautauqua and Aspen come to mind. Both have scholarships available for deserving students. Your college surely has a bulletin board where flyers for various programs get posted, or ask your advisor.</p>
<p>You don’t say what school you are at. Are you a simple “music” major at an LAC? Or do you actually have an instrumental/vocal skill?</p>
<p>In any case, you are very early with thinking about doctoral degrees. It’s wonderful that you “love” learning everything about music, but at some point you will develop a plan for using that knowledge to earn a living.</p>