In the Pre Med forum there is a pinned thread which explains how AP/IB credits are treated by med schools and how dual enrollment credits are handled.
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Getting back to the list of schoolsā¦ā¦
I think the OP indicated that the family needs $20,000 in merit. What do they want the cost to come down to? $20,000 in merit at Pitt is different than $20,000 at Tulane.
Besides UMD (they donāt seem to like it), are there any schools that are both an academic and financial safety? VCU was noted to be a safetyā¦is it affordable? Does she like it (I believe there are about 20,000 undergrads)?
Earlier I mentioned TCNJ. Despite being a state school, it is small (7000 undergrads) and they give some merit. It is also a strong school academically.
Without knowing what the family can afford, itās hard to tell whether a school like Rochester will be affordable, even with merit. I know very, very strong students (top 1%) who applied and got about $20,000. Is that enough?
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My son is a TCNJ graduate, solid school, itās as selective as Rutgers (where my daughter graduated). My only Heath science major is at UDel so Iām not familiar with TCNJās science department, but his good friend graduated from nursing and he was is the hospitals all throughout covid.
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I think TCNJ and UDel should be on this list, but itās not my kid going to college lol.
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And I think College of Charleston should be on the list as well.
Of the schools the OP listed, itās not likely that $20,000 in merit aid is going to happenā¦and the costs to attend will be higher than UMD.
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Agree with you. Unless we are missing something, it seems many of these schools will be unaffordable (Rochester, Tulane, etc).
It looks like Muhlenberg has some very nice scholarships, but they are competitive (which makes this school a financial reach) and the cost will not meet UMD.
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I know there has been a lot of push back about Furman on this thread, but OPs daughter would probably be looking at somewhere in the $35k range in merit aid. If she can get her test scores up to a 1500/34, she would be competitive for the Duke scholarship which is a full ride. At Rhodes,merit aid would most likely be in the 30k range.
My son has applied EA to both this cycle. We were very impressed by Furman on our campus visit. We havenāt been to visit Rhodes yet, but my son had a one on one zoom session with a Rhodes AO through his school.
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I donāt know enough about the school, but it seems to get push back because the OP wants a school with a Jewish presence, and Furman only has about 50 Jewish undergrads (2%). That being said, it seems that the parent is keeping Furman on the list.
I may be wrong, but I think this student may go test optional? Practice tests were in the 1400 range, and if I remember correctly I donāt think the student is planning any more prep (again, maybe I am wrong). Getting a 1500 may be hard.
IMO this list needs some serious revisions if significant merit is necessary. UMD is an amazing school, but the OP wants smaller classes and doesnāt think her daughter will have the gpa to make her competitive for medical school.
Has Furman added significant merit aid in the last decade? My guy had higher stats than 1500/34 and didnāt even come close to getting 35K, much less full ride.
As Iāve seen with other students/schools though, they just might not have cared for mine - certainly not enough to show they wanted him financially. His other schools most certainly did.
Folks looking for aid should look in more than one spot unless the aid is guaranteed. Schools are fickle in who they like and want to attract. Itās difficult to say ahead of time.
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Based on previous comments, 1400 is not from a practice test but is what the parent anticipates her daughter will score. So really hard to know about merit for any school that requires test scores until there is more hard data available. But some schools are still TO for merit, so that helps.
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I have no idea what Furman was doing ten years ago, but I attached the link with info on their merit scholarships. I believe the Duke scholarship is fairly new. It is a competitive process requiring an interview and certainly a long shot for everyone. My son attends a small private school, everyone who was accepted in the last few years has received either the Townes or the Bell Tower.
As they are not automatic awards, I agree that nothing is guaranteed. Always best to apply broadly
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So the COA at Furman is just over $70,000 a year. If this student gets even a $30,000 merit awardā¦.is $40,000 affordable per year for this family? We donāt know.
Cost of attendance at UMD instate is a tad over $28,000 a year.
U of Delaware is about $53,000 a year OOS but there is potential for this student to get merit aid.
College of Charleston is in the $45,000 a year range OOSā¦but again merit aid is potentially there.
I will addā¦.it seems that costs are not at the top of the list of criteria. Seems like med school potential, some Jewish life, and then costā¦.but maybe Iām misreading this.
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Thanks everyone. We will make decision based on acceptances. The school with best fit and best money will win. I would say best fit without money - will not work.
We need at least half ride from a school to be even in consideration pool. We do have minor scholarship from work (quarter of the tuition.) So if DD will get half ride plus a quarter. We will need to pay another quarter plus room and board. Taking DE was one way to cut the cost for college. That worked for oldest but it seems not the best approach for youngest.
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Good luckā¦hope it all works out.
I want to wish your daughter the best. I also feel the need to warn you that there are a lot of schools on this list that will most likely not give you the money you are hoping for.
The good news is that UMD is a wonderful school- one that is very highly regarded. Best wishes!
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Since you guys scared me with DE classes. I am trying to figure out what to do.
At this point DD took only Calc1 and basic Physics 1 this semester.
I know that almost all premed students at UMD take AP Calc, Physics, Psychology, Chem and Biology in HS. Somehow they are fine with admissions to medical schoolsā¦ They do not retake these classes in college. In fact unless you finished AP Bio you cannot even apply for Honor program at UMD for premedsā¦ So something does not add up.
Also I have noticed that Physics 1 (Fundamental of physics) from CC will transfer into Phys 121. On the other hand Bio and Neuroscience majors are required to take Phys 131 and 132. Phys 131 is considered physics for Biologists (so it is physics in Biology context). Will this considered to be repeat? If class in CC was remote due to COVID (all classes are remote at this point) will this still be repeat? Will somebody expect student to take Physics major class? I strongly doubt it.
If what you described is recommended, all potential premed students will take all AP classes and will not take exams for any of themā¦
So now I am on the fence. Should DD taking dancing with the stars for the rest of the year? She cannot enroll back in school for one year classes in the middle of the year.
I have a feeling that taking one semester of Bio, one of Chemistry, one of Math, English, Physics, and Psych should not be a problem when student does it in HS through DE. That can be easily explained in application.
UMD had the following requirements for premed:
https://www.prehealth.umd.edu/coursework
I have not heard about any student taking extra English or Math in college for premed after taking AP in school. Ona extra PSYC class is not a problem. I think DD needs to take PSYC just to understand would she be even interested to study it as a major/minorā¦
These are HS graduation course requirements. Do you know that every premed from your high schoolā¦or at UMDā¦hasnāt taken upper level courses in those disciplines as an undergradā¦as explained above? Your daughter can do the same.
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What Iām used to seeing is pre-med students taking AP, and pending what their college does, may or may not take the test for credit. For those who do, their plan is to take the next course in college IF the college gives credit for AP. Not all colleges do, though I think all state colleges do. If they want to repeat the course in college for a stronger foundation, then they do not take the test. Having the course gives them a prep for the college class. All pre-meds I know of have at least taken AP level for the key courses in order to have that foundation going in. None will stick with lower level classes.
Med schools have no issues with AP in high school (though wonāt give credit for that course for med school). They only care about CC pre-req and repeated courses as both show caution flags for whether or not the student can handle the course material (or trying to take the easy path to get As).
IRL, some CCs have courses as strong as four year schools, but many do not. Med schools donāt want to determine which do and which donāt. One of my sons (not pre-med) took CC Bio 101 and sat in on his older brotherās (pre-med) course in college. He called the CC course āBio-Liteā after that experience. When I asked him the difference he responded something to the effect of, āIn my class we learned there was an enzyme that assisted the process. In my brotherās course they were learning about 11 different enzymes, by name, and what each did, for the same process.ā (11 isnāt likely the number - my brain is old, but it was far more than āan enzyme.ā) Both courses were designed for incoming freshmen, but they werenāt the same level depth - not even close.
That said, one doesnāt have to go to the toughest school out there to get into med school. Once in they teach you everything you need to know. Some will have learned more in college, meaning those without the deeper foundation will need to study more, but other than physically having to do it, itās no big deal. What matters is the perception of the med school admissions folks (and anything on the MCAT). They want to know a student can handle the material while also doing a ton of other things - not just studying. If they deem CC courses too ālite,ā then thatās the way it is. Thereās so much competition out there they donāt have to change.
Yes, you need a solid foundation to do well in college. That can be AP or self-study. It can be DE from a 4 year school. It only becomes dubious if itās from a CC when med schools are involved. You can look for med schools that donāt seem to red flag those courses. You can take higher level courses in each subject in the 4 year school. Her chances arenāt shot at the moment, but choose classes (now and in college) to make her as competitive as possible. But in general, going the CC/DE route to med school is not the ābestā path out there due to the bias in many places against those courses (esp if the courses are the Lite version).
Otherwise, take non pre-req classes. I mentioned Public Speaking and Microbio already as options (two my guy took and enjoyed - both very helpful to have). English is less likely to be a problem too I suspect. Calc 2 at the 4 year can follow Calc 1 at CC.
711 of 5900 got interviews at UR. Iām not sure what UMD has for stats. You want to be competitive to get interviews. The vast majority applying have more than the basics.
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However, taking a college course after having received AP credit for that course is seen as a ārepeatā by medical schools. Hence the recommendation for pre-meds not to take the AP test if they intend on repeating that course in college.
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Well since Cal is not required by Med schools, they should be fine with Calc 1 from CC. She is not Math major. She will probably take 2 Physics for Bio major if end up in MD. If they will mark one of them repeat - then let it be. (Since it is Bio based and higher number it is not technically repeat). She will take plenty of Bio classes. So intro Bio from CC should not be problem. She needs it anyway for Honors program. We may hold for Chem until 4 year college just to be safe.