If you are straight, the presence of men on campus at Carleton would provide easier social opportunities to date.
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Jumped back in to add that I found Carleton’s PE classes to be great stress relievers — and I am not sporty. I remember taking beginning tennis with friends during a sunny spring term. There was a lot of laughter, but I am not sure my tennis improved very much. I also took some fun dance classes.
PE at Carleton was more just an organized way of doing activities you would probably do anyway for mental/physical health. It did not feel like an additional burden.
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I will add that my completely unsporty and non athletic D was very much not looking forward to the gym requirement at her college. She is so glad she did it though. It was a good way to meet people, made her less stressed, and she became a fan of yoga.
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Academics are only one part of college. The schools in question are so different socially I would expect OP to have a strong preference one way or the other.
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I hesitate to respond as my information is mostly dated, but in case anything is useful, consider (with a grain of salt) the following:
My husband and I both graduated (20ish years ago) from Amherst and MHC. We continue to still spend a good deal of time in the area.
Smith was then (and seems to be now) overtly political. The student body generally enjoys being politically active and is very very liberal. It will impact your experience. Northampton is fairly safe; you need general street smarts, but it does not come close to being dangerous for students the way some big city universities may be (Uchicago, Upenn). Drugs are in Northampton and at Smith, as they are probably in every college town and campus.
I know nothing about Carleton and can only add that one of my husband’s college friends is now a STEM professor at Carleton and is one of the sweetest, kindest people and educators I’ve ever met. He seems particularly aware of the “women in stem” issue and works to counteract that.
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Wow! Thank you guys so much for all the responses. Let me go through some of them:
I’ve been looking around most of the morning! Carleton has 33 math courses, Smith has 28. Carleton has comps, while Smith has an optional (?) honors project, “graduate special studies” and “independent studies.” About 5 of Smith’s classes are under Calc III, which is where I’d be starting; about 3 of Carleton’s are the same. Carleton looks like it has 19 full-time faculty (30 counting “staff” and emereti faculty), Smith has 13.
My admissions officer said she could put me in touch with some current students, which should be super helpful. The problem is I can’t tell if I just had a bad visit at Smith (I was alone and very tired) or if I actually wouldn’t be comfortable there. I don’t think I have enough time to visit Carleton, but maybe I could reach out to my admissions officer and ask if I can have another weekend? Smith definitely did feel edgy.
Comps looks like a lot of stress! I’m not sure if I like it or not. I wish I knew how the students regarded it. If it’s like any of the group or “passion” projects my high school makes me do, I’d much rather avoid it–if the current students love doing it, then I think it might be fun! From what I see online, it makes me a bit wary. I’ve always preferred tests to projects, and I’m not sure I’d want to spend my entire senior year working on comps.
Not going to lie, this sounds pretty perfect for me. Being isolated and bored isn’t a big concern: I’m the type of person who likes to stay at home anyway. I do wonder a little if I should choose based on PhD production. While I definitely want to do academia as of now, it’s a hard field to stay in and maybe I should keep my options open. I really don’t know…
Yeah, I can’t decide if I consider the trimester system as a negative or not. It does seem really nice to be able to completely focus on three courses, and to fit more course diversity into a school year. On the other hand, I’m worried that I would be constantly rushed to learn all the material, and that scares me. There would also be more testing, which I don’t like. Does anyone know if people lose time in the summer due to the trimester system? Or if it’s harder to earn a high GPA because of how constant the testing is?
I’m not going to lie, prestige does slighlty factor in. But I do love Carleton–it was one of my favorite schools before they waitlisted me. Part of the problem is I’ve done a lot of research on Smith and got myself really invested in the college because I thought I was for sure going there; I never thought I would get off the waitlist at Carleton, and so I stopped paying as much attention to it. The academic atmosphere at Carleton seems right up my alley, as do most of their courses and departments. It was my second favorite school when I made my list (Wellesley was my first).
I’m bisexual, but dating isn’t a priority either way. My reasoning for liking a women’s college is to finally meet other women in STEM. I’ve been part of a tiny minority in most of my classes and clubs, and while I know that’s going to be unavoidable in math, I want to opt out of that culture wherever I can. If Carleton is geuinely 50/50, then I think I might prefer it to Smith…
Thank you so much to everyone who’s answering! I’m obviously still reading everything but it’s genuinely so helpful to get this advice
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While I wouldn’t suggest that this site should supersede your own research and intuition, it nonetheless may be of interest:
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It’s good that you invested energy into getting excited about Smith. Have you been looking forward to it? Do you like what you’ve seen so far? Do you feel you will find your people? Not everyone is going to be very political. In fact, I think most won’t be. It’s easy to notice people when they are vocal.
Back in 2016 my D was on Carleton’s WL, but I’m glad she didn’t go there because I think she would have found the trimester system very stressful. She got off another WL for a college she only visited once during the summer. She knew enough about the school that she took a leap of faith without ever meeting fellow students. So if you know enough about Carleton and feel comfortable, I’m sure you can have a good experience.
Have you joined any admitted students chat groups for either college? Check out their social media pages, see if you like the vibe. Look on Niche and see what students say about their colleges.
Both colleges will get you where you want to go in life. Both are highly regarded.
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Hi! Thank you so much for the comment; it makes Carleton sound really nice. Could you tell me a bit about how stressful the comps project is (I guess she’s only a freshman, so you might not know) and how stressful the testing situation is? I don’t think I’d like taking 18 exams in a year
I did one degree with a semester system and another with a trimester system. Personally, I preferred the latter. Yes, there were three sets of finals, but I found the "compression " to be helpful and also a pretty effective deterrent to procrastination. (Maybe this isn’t your concern!)
I also felt like it provided a tad more flexibility in how much to cover in a course - some really needed two trimesters and others were fine at one. I often felt like the semester courses either had unrelated material at the end or really needed a few weeks more. But my trimester system didn’t claim to do a semester’s worth of work in a trimester, but simply to provide different breaks during a school year. (So 4 courses was the norm.)
There are pros and cons both ways and it really is a matter of personal preference. My kid considered schools with both and was indifferent.
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Your discomfort during your visit to Smith should not be ignored. Gut feelings are part of the equation.
I would do everything possible to visit Carleton.
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This I worry about - Carleton is on the top of your list and I understand, we all use metrics or other things to align with what we want - but as off as your day at Smith was, you really don’t know how Carleton will feel.
So I would hope, should you choose it, you will be able to get there first so you won’t have a “shell shock” on your first visit as a student.
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One nice thing about the trimester system at Carleton (at least in the dinosaur age when I attended; I assume it remains the same) — we had a LONG winter break from Thanksgiving to January. No worries about whether I could afford two trips home for Thanksgiving and December holidays; no returning to face finals right after a break.
Regarding comps, again my personal experience is very dated. Mine was no big deal. In fact, I had a test option for my major.
Even if that is no longer available, comps were very much a bonding experience. Many included a short presentation of a student’s work and I attended many friends’ presentations and learned all sorts of things about fiber optics and other random topics I never personally studied.
I am not gonna lie, the academics at Carleton were rigorous and it did appear we had more exams/papers than peers at other schools. But unlike high school, it was very much a shared challenge. Some of my fondest memories are of studying with friends or in groups. There were plenty of study breaks and wandering off on tangents, so it wasn’t always super-efficient studying, but it was FUN.
I also loved most of my professors, one of whom arranged for me to present one of my papers (from a class assignment) at an undergraduate research conference in Texas, unsolicited.
I am not trying to sell you on Carleton over Smith, just offering my anecdotal experience for what it is worth.
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I am going to be a dissenter here.
I don’t believe a student MUST visit a college before committing. Not very long ago, kids chose colleges sight unseen, even before Covid.
I do not think OP needs to visit Carleton. Especially these days, there are many ways to get an accurate feel for a college without visiting.
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I agree the long break was very convenient. It saves on transportation time and costs, and it works well for a winter job. It is the perfect length and timing to be attractive to seasonal employers. Or enough time to do a short research project or a longer trip to another country. The downside is that the summer break is a little shorter (starts early June and ends right after Labor Day if it is still the same.)
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I have never heard anyone suggest that northampton is unsafe before. I know several families that live in the general area and it’s a place that their rural kids start going to hang out on their own as soon as they can drive (mostly during the day to shop but we’re talking high school age and not from urban areas). Other than the driving part (it’s a distance) I’ve not heard any concerns. There are a few homeless folks, but tons of stores and restaurants and always people around day or night. Lots going on. I don’t have anything to offer about either school otherwise but I certainly wouldn’t worry about safety in Northampton. Most people consider the location a plus for Smith.
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Yes, I’m one - the first time I stepped foot on the Syracuse campus was the day I moved into the dorm.
But you can see the “impact” the Smith visit had on this student - so it’s not just a question of looking at the aesthetics or quad or anything else.
This person thinks deeply - and seems willing to get there if she can get an extension…so I hope that can happen.
Also - both of my kid would have ended up at different schools if they went sight unseen. Would it have impacted them if they did - no idea - but given the depth of this student’s comments, I think it’d be important.
We don’t know where she lives, but she made it clear she can’t visit before she has to decide. I don’t see that as a decisive factor, honestly. The main factors seem to be Smith students and the trimester system. One is roughly known, the other isn’t.
I don’t know anything about Smith, but I’m a Freshman at Carleton. I actually am leaning on transferring out, but I’ll try to give you my unbiased thoughts on Carleton.
In terms of the math program, yes Carleton is absolutely elite in terms of feeding into PhD programs. If you’re looking to go into one there may not be a better place to go for undergrad than Carleton. In terms of the actual department, idk that much, but the one prof I had in calc was really good. There’s also definitely a much higher proportion of STEM majors at Carleton than other LACs, so that’s probably a good thing if you’re looking to major in one.
In terms of people, I would generally say people are friendly and it’s easy to make friends because you’ll see the same people many times in the same day (although this is probably the same at Smith)
Politically, I’m liberal, and Carleton is the most liberal place I’ve ever been, a bit too much for me, and I would not recommend saying any opinions that aren’t far left. Although, I will say politics really aren’t brought up that much so it’s not that big a deal. But let’s just say most people at Carleton would not be willing to have discourse with someone who has conservative ideas lmao.
For distribution requirements, they’re pretty easy, the only annoying ones are generally that you gotta take one lab class and one writing heavy class but I wouldn’t worry about it.
In terms of professors, I’ve had 7 different professors and 4 were great, 1 was meh, and 2 were bad to very bad. I think I got pretty unlucky though. In terms of exams, not every class has a midterm or even final so you’re not very likely not gonna have 18 exams in a year, but I will say STEM classes are the ones that tend to have more. Humanities classes are usually just some final essay. Keep in mind cause of the trimester system Carleton has weird breaks and gets out a month later than semester schools so you’d have less time with friends at home, but I will say the 6 week winter break is amazing.
Weatherwise, yeah it’s tough lmao and I’m someone who likes snow/cold. Campus is at least small so you don’t have to be outside for that long, but be prepared to not be able to be outside for more than 5 minutes at a time.
PE classes are pretty easy, the only really annoying thing is that if you’re trying to get them out of the way early on, upperclassmen take the best classes, and the most popular PE classes you literally can’t get into until you’re like a junior. But there’s still options and also some clubs will give you credits.
For job placement, most people I talk to don’t want to stay in Minnesota. It’s easy to get a job on either coast so I wouldn’t worry about that. Ngl the only people that really want to stay in Minnesota are the people who have never left the midwest (sorry midwesterners but it’s kinda true).
In terms of weed/drinking, both are definitely very common at Carleton and are kinda hard to avoid if you wanna do stuff at night on the weekends. There just isn’t a whole lot to do in a small midwestern town so naturally people just end up drinking or smoking. No one pressures anyone though but you might feel left out, but this kinda depends on who you’ve made friends with and if they partake.
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A thought about trimesters vs semesters:
If you like having fewer academic classes to focus on at a time, you can have that under the semester system also. My D21 only takes four academic classes each semester (under her system, that’s 12 credits, which is full time). To make up the credits she will need to graduate on time, she takes a class over winter break, and will do a June program abroad.
I would check out how you would get to Carleton, as travel, especially in winter, can be a huge hassle. I have a friend who went to Carleton from the east coast and although he loved it, it was really hard for him to come home.
You have two wonderful choices! Both will have pros and cons, like any place does. What will make the difference is your energy, flexibility, and willingness to reach out, join things, connect with people etc.